Alterac Valley

[Demithio]

Do you guys think that AV will be awesome again on the classic servers? Or do you think it will still be just a zerg race to the other end of the map.

It could only be zerged after it was modified to allow for it. You wont be able to do this in vanilla. It will be back to the long, epic battles of old. Can't wait.

[Deleted]

Maybe you played on some under-populated Groendland servers then, because like you both said, there was nothing to do once you reach 60, except raiding and PVP

And "doing quests" and 5man dungeons farming wasn't really enjoyable, even for true casuals

Do you think the tons of people that want Vanilla back are those poor random casuals paying 12€/month for doing nothing ? Or the guys who actually played the game ?

[Deleted]

I dont know guys. Week long AV only existed for the first few month. We had 'Regular AV' for a good chunk of vanilla. The thing was changed/corrected during vanilla I think it's dead for classic

[Zincara]

I pvp`ed alot on my rogue in vanilla, especially in AV. It was really fun to play for the goal of fun. I think ppl only get roused about the long games because the rewards are only given at the actual completion of the BG. I think it would be great if they made it to where the reward wasn`t all about the actual completion. So, I think it would good if they gave greater rewards to players for contribution (kills, caps, def, turn ins, summonings etc.). Then just have a few AV games kinda always running and ppl can pop in and out for however long they have and are then given rewards for their contribution based on what they did in the BG WHEN THEY decide to leave the BG. So you would join the AV, play and then your reward would be calculated for what you did when you leave, simple. This makes it good for the person getting rdy to go in to work and has about 20 min to sit down with a cup of coffee and get some kills in. It also works for the person who wants to stay in there all day maybe summon some big dudes or sit in wait by the bridge to nail clothies with hardened snowballs >^.^<

[BicycleMafioso]

I would be super happy if they introduce the original AV. Gryphon riders, big troll boss in the field of strife, Syndicate, troll and other neutral npc enemies.

I think it is unlikely, and we will likely end up with a later version. Which is a shame, since I loved original vanilla av. Later vanilla av was cool, too I guess, but not as cool. It was also much narrower, with fewer things to do on the side. Original av was more square.

[barrsftw]

If I remember rightly, the Alliance have the map advantage in AV. On Nost the Alliance had a higher success rate when Zerging, it didn't take long for the Horde to realize that defence was their only chance of winning, unless their opponents were utterly clueless, which was the case sometimes.

Choke to galv, galv to choke.

[Nihilux]

Depends which version of AV they're running. 1.8 through 1.12 saw several changes such as removing segments of the map, removing the troll boss at snowfall gy and nerfing all NPCs.

I'd prefer 1.8, I think. Or 1.8, but without the removing and (maybe) the weakening of NPCs and map reduction. 1.8 was at least the version of AV I spent most of my time with, so I'm still unsure if the reductions were for the better or worse. 1.10 removing the fun with Korrak at Snowfall was terrible.
I've not done any AV since forever, because of how it later became a zergfest, instead of a large battlefield, where everyone had their place. It's hard to talk about AV, without recognizing how the other parts of vanilla made AV worthwhile. Reputation rewards being really worthwhile, quest rewards for the lvl 51 AV quest being a great motivation to join AV at 51, and sometimes the item drops could be great. The size also allowed for a lot of interesting 1v1 encounters or attempts at stealing graveyards.

[Armourboy]

I would be super happy if they introduce the original AV. Gryphon riders, big troll boss in the field of strife, Syndicate, troll and other neutral npc enemies.

I think it is unlikely, and we will likely end up with a later version. Which is a shame, since I loved original vanilla av. Later vanilla av was cool, too I guess, but not as cool. It was also much narrower, with fewer things to do on the side. Original av was more square.

Sadly you may be right, but the one hope I have for this is that Blizzard has been trying to replicate the original AV experience pretty much since they changed it. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they didn't use this as an opportunity to rebuild the original just so they can see how it worked and how it played. May not happen but it's a hope anyways.

We tend to forget that probably a good chunk of the guys at Blizzard today never worked on the original product. They have tried several times in the past to replicate certain things, but in general you could always tell they had a memory of playing it or doing it, but how it worked wasn't exactly the same. It actually makes me wonder if part of the reason for this project isn't just to makes some old fans happy, but also to have a place to reference from time to time.

- - - Updated - - -

Another dude trying to spread the bullshit around internet "very few people raided in vanilla", "very few people was doin pvp in vanilla", very few people blabla in vanilla"

Ok so, a very few people actually played the game in vanilla ? And all the rest was just sitting around doin nothing in Orgrimmar / Ironforge right ?

How can you be that stupid

From Blizzards own admission, 75% of players never made it to max level. So of that remaining 25% they were doing the raiding/pvp. Yeah you could do BG's at low levels, but I wouldn't say that most players in general spent a ton of time in there while leveling ( there are always exceptions of course ).

So based on Blizzards own numbers? Yeah very few people did raid or do end game PvP based on the whole.

[Gref]

Follow the ice lord! Follow him!
Man those were great times. 2 sides clashing in the middle, a few warriors would charge in, healers keep spamming them then all hell break lose. fucking good times.

[FeedsOnDevTears]

Another dude trying to spread the bullshit around internet "very few people raided in vanilla", "very few people was doin pvp in vanilla", very few people blabla in vanilla"

Ok so, a very few people actually played the game in vanilla ? And all the rest was just sitting around doin nothing in Orgrimmar / Ironforge right ?

How can you be that stupid

From what I've heard, the thing is vanilla was they people actually treated it as an MMORPG. They didn't just log on to PvP, Raid and grind for gear and achieves - they actually had fun just playing and doing whatever.

[Chaelexi]

It was very zergable in Vanilla and was done from 1.8 on on Laughing Skull Server US as alliance, it was name Palterac Valley put on by Pals 4 Life(yes leeroy jenkins) how it was done is that rogues would go take the horde base graveyard and hold it as well as who ever could zerg ride there. This was easier due to the ability to ride behind the fence and get into the GY area. Once it was taken a warlock who died and ghost run res at the horde base and wall jumps to get under the horde castle on the left hand side. He would then summon the entire raid to the last boss and take the towers in the base. Then tank then reset pull the boss and get the captains out of the castle(they would not reset like in current) and kill captains then kill drek. It would take 20 mins and we would run it back to back to ensure the next player inline to get grand marshall got it.

[Holian]

The days long AV games didn't last that long really, it only lasted from patch 1.5 (release) until 1.8, when AV was rebalanced, this is the AV most people remember, games would take hours, not days, and imo was a the best version (i lead a BG farming group on my server, earning multiple rank14s for my group, so i did my fair share).
Later AV was nerfed again in 1.11 i believe it was, where ALOT of NPCs were straight up removed, and the ones that were left had significant nerfs made to them, this is what allowed for the short AV zergs.

So depending on what patch classic launches on, there's no telling how it will go.

IMO they should pick and choose abit from the different patches, 15m UBRS and 10m Strat/Scholo for instance (original allowed for a full 40m raid), but start with no Maraudon/Dire Maul... I'd be okay with Maraudon as that mainly just effects leveling, but DM had alot of gear that was better than even the stuff you could get in MC alot of the time.
1.4 honor system patch, so no BGs at start to allow for some proper world PvP fun, but still give some honor and progression, and add the 1.6/1.7 honor system fixes (being able to see your progress to your next rank etc).
Original debuff limit, increasing it when ZG launches, but put in the skull, X and so forth, target markers, Garr without those was annoying as all hell.
1.12 talent reworks, these were done periodically throughout vanilla, and the last one happened in 1.12, the original talents were in some cases just bizarre.

Note, this is just a hodgepodge of ideas that i'd like to personally see, i dont think ANY of this should actually go live, what's perfectly reasonable to me could very well ruin someone elses experience, and what's a good change to them, wont be for me, all of this is completely subjective, and the only real answer, and how it should be released is in one of two ways.
1, The private server way, 1.12, release raids and dungeons periodically.
2, Completely original WoW release, warts and all, progress through the patches as we did way back when.

- - - Updated - - -

From what I've heard, the thing is vanilla was they people actually treated it as an MMORPG. They didn't just log on to PvP, Raid and grind for gear and achieves - they actually had fun just playing and doing whatever.

You heard right, there were people that would JUST PvP, or JUST log on for raid night, but those people were few and far between.
I did both high end raiding and serious PvP, and people in both camps there generally did both, PvE and PvP were quite closely linked.
Personally i think this is one of the great mistakes of modern WoW, seperating the two communities almost completely in the name of balance, fun always trumps balance.

One of the best things in vanilla and BC, was getting really awesome PvE gear, to use in PvP, and really feel your character progressing and growing stronger, and the rewards from PvP, were VERY viable in raiding aswell, just falling abit short of the PvE counterparts in BC, and straight up trumping them in alot of cases in vanilla until BWL/AQ40.
I really miss this feeling of progressing the two sides along side of each other.

Dont want it to sound like i'm bashing modern WoW, it does alot of things very right and i love some parts of it... But the seperation of PvE and PvP, crossrealm, sharding, transmog and a few other things is not among those.

But back to your original point, yes we did alot of random stuff aswell, farming, doing some random weird questline either because it was cool, or in some cases because it had a genuinely unique and awesome reward, or speedrun BRD for a warrior friend so he can finally get his hand of justice, or grinding rep in silithus or deciding that i really want that damn winterspring mount, and spend months grinding furbolgs.
It was alot less "structured" than what it is now, wich is alot of fun, you kinda set your own goals.

[kunah]

This might answer some of the questions

Wow!! This brings back a flood of great memories. ty. Now I cant wait..

[Chaelexi]

The days long AV games didn't last that long really, it only lasted from patch 1.5 (release) until 1.8, when AV was rebalanced, this is the AV most people remember, games would take hours, not days, and imo was a the best version (i lead a BG farming group on my server, earning multiple rank14s for my group, so i did my fair share).
Later AV was nerfed again in 1.11 i believe it was, where ALOT of NPCs were straight up removed, and the ones that were left had significant nerfs made to them, this is what allowed for the short AV zergs.

So depending on what patch classic launches on, there's no telling how it will go.

IMO they should pick and choose abit from the different patches, 15m UBRS and 10m Strat/Scholo for instance (original allowed for a full 40m raid), but start with no Maraudon/Dire Maul... I'd be okay with Maraudon as that mainly just effects leveling, but DM had alot of gear that was better than even the stuff you could get in MC alot of the time.
1.4 honor system patch, so no BGs at start to allow for some proper world PvP fun, but still give some honor and progression, and add the 1.6/1.7 honor system fixes (being able to see your progress to your next rank etc).
Original debuff limit, increasing it when ZG launches, but put in the skull, X and so forth, target markers, Garr without those was annoying as all hell.
1.12 talent reworks, these were done periodically throughout vanilla, and the last one happened in 1.12, the original talents were in some cases just bizarre.

Note, this is just a hodgepodge of ideas that i'd like to personally see, i dont think ANY of this should actually go live, what's perfectly reasonable to me could very well ruin someone elses experience, and what's a good change to them, wont be for me, all of this is completely subjective, and the only real answer, and how it should be released is in one of two ways.
1, The private server way, 1.12, release raids and dungeons periodically.
2, Completely original WoW release, warts and all, progress through the patches as we did way back when.

- - - Updated - - -



You heard right, there were people that would JUST PvP, or JUST log on for raid night, but those people were few and far between.
I did both high end raiding and serious PvP, and people in both camps there generally did both, PvE and PvP were quite closely linked.
Personally i think this is one of the great mistakes of modern WoW, seperating the two communities almost completely in the name of balance, fun always trumps balance.

One of the best things in vanilla and BC, was getting really awesome PvE gear, to use in PvP, and really feel your character progressing and growing stronger, and the rewards from PvP, were VERY viable in raiding aswell, just falling abit short of the PvE counterparts in BC, and straight up trumping them in alot of cases in vanilla until BWL/AQ40.
I really miss this feeling of progressing the two sides along side of each other.

Dont want it to sound like i'm bashing modern WoW, it does alot of things very right and i love some parts of it... But the seperation of PvE and PvP, crossrealm, sharding, transmog and a few other things is not among those.

But back to your original point, yes we did alot of random stuff aswell, farming, doing some random weird questline either because it was cool, or in some cases because it had a genuinely unique and awesome reward, or speedrun BRD for a warrior friend so he can finally get his hand of justice, or grinding rep in silithus or deciding that i really want that damn winterspring mount, and spend months grinding furbolgs.
It was alot less "structured" than what it is now, wich is alot of fun, you kinda set your own goals.

Well if you were grinding rank 14....there was not much else you did. I hit 13 and burnt out as I was also raiding at the time. But the best thing about vanilla was the idiots that would buy your account for stupid amounts of money.....sold my full T2.5 and rank 13 warlock for a cool clean 6k USD.

[athleet]

Follow the ice lord! Follow him!
Man those were great times. 2 sides clashing in the middle, a few warriors would charge in, healers keep spamming them then all hell break lose. fucking good times.

when warriors fear wasnt limited and you could fear as many people within range

[Linri]

in old AV i remember playing it sometimes in the morning on a weekend, going out to skateboard or hang with friends, get home, and the same game would still be going
with peoples kills in the thousands, and deaths 100+ for some players

it was so epic with 40v40 battling for a graveyard, and the biggest threat of it all was the lag

[Novaice]

Do you guys think that AV will be awesome again on the classic servers? Or do you think it will still be just a zerg race to the other end of the map.

Back in vanilla, AV usually lasted 1-3 days.

There was no zerging.

[Flarelaine]

If I remember rightly, the Alliance have the map advantage in AV. On Nost the Alliance had a higher success rate when Zerging, it didn't take long for the Horde to realize that defence was their only chance of winning, unless their opponents were utterly clueless, which was the case sometimes.

That would be the 1.12 map. The original AV map favoured the Horde, though, iirc.

[BuckSparkles]

On Priv servers they last a long time but if its AV weekends you form premades and try to win as fast as possible, and to be honest that is preferable for that juicy rep and honor.

[faithbane]

On Priv servers they last a long time but if its AV weekends you form premades and try to win as fast as possible, and to be honest that is preferable for that juicy rep and honor.

In classic you didnt AV for honor, but for the fun and the rep grind AV exalted epics. It was a much faster way to make a premed for WSG and AB for honor farm. One of the main reason is the win bonus and quick 5 cap wins of AB and diminishing returns on Honor kills. After a little bit, killing the same people in AV over and over was basically giving little to no honor.