Vanilla stats too complicated for retailers

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yes it is. I know it's the Internet so we're all geniuses and we can all do everything one hand tied behind the back, but without being rocket science, the stat in Vanilla were a bit more convoluted than the stat in Legion, which are ridiculously barebone. They even removed in all but name the main stat (which are now just renamed "power", as for nearly all classes they don't provide anything but 1 AP/SP).

Not "hard" by any stretch. For current reference: Check gearing guides relating to Vanilla gearing and optimization.

Convoluted =/= hard to handle.

[Banard]

Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Get off your horse with your rose tinted glasses.

RNG/Titanforge/leggos/set bonus make today's gearing choices 10000 times worst then they were back then. 10000 more complicated. It was pretty straight forward back then.

You had stats and caps. Unless its a item with the same exact stats i have now just higher ilevel i have to spend barrels of my time siming to figure out if it was an upgrade. Not only that, something from older content can be even better and make me sim it all over even if its 30 ilevels below every thing else!

Back then Boss X drop Item Y. I need item y, kill boss y. What a simple world it was back then...so simple.

[Sky High]

Get off your horse with your rose tinted glasses.

you misunderstand, these people are the rose tinted glasses.

[exdeath202]

As far as i remember my mage had int (wich increased my mana total and a ridicolous amount to crit% like 1% crit from my total gear+base int), spell power (rare at the beginning more common in later tiers) and some pieces had +1% crit. How is that complicated? Some pieces had random mp5 and resistance thats all.
My tank had defense, wich wasnt that hard to understand, agi and str were useful too. I dont remember if we had parry/block/dodge because i played my warrior mostly in bc, but my mage wasnt complicated at all in vanilla.

[deniter]

Idk if its different for other classes but I know for my spec (retribution) you don't always go with highest ilevel? As someone that was around when ALL of those stats were I can honestly say none of them were complex at all. Weapon skill isn't even a stat. And as far as I know it isn't on any gear. It is a stat that you grabbed a level 1 item of that weapon type and went to auto attack something while you afked.

Edgemaster's Handguards says hi.

And you couldn't believe how little people really know about these stats.

[Accendor]

Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?

... No... /10char

[Echocho]

Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?

The private server community is even worse. They follow BiS lists religiously without knowing why. If Blizzard were to shuffle some things around the majority would be completely lost, yes they are that dumb.

[Jujudrood]

The whole argument of stats being hard is an irrelevant one.
The people who care to balance them will simply go to an external source, find out what's good for them, and then target those items/stat values/etc.
In Vanilla, this wasn't nearly as prevalent because the vast majority of the playerbase didn't partake in content that required fine-tuning of these numbers, nor did they particularly care whether or not they had enough of X; they rolled with the gear they had.
Today, in retail, the vast majority still don't really care about haste caps, crit caps, diminishing returns, etc; they just slap on gear and go because, at the end of the day, the majority don't raid mythic and don't need to hone in on number targets.
The information is out there, though, and once classic servers go up, more information will be out there.
I wouldn't be surprised if AMR puts a classic version up, so all you have to do is pick a class and it tells you your only viable spec and the gear/stats you want.
Pair that with forum post after forum post, many theorycrafters, etc, and you don't even need to know what it is or how it functions, only that you need a certain amount.
Not hard to understand, as long as you understand the concept of a 2-to-4 digit number and can read relatively small words.

[deniter]

The private server community is even worse. They follow BiS lists religiously without knowing why. If Blizzard were to shuffle some things around the majority would be completely lost, yes they are that dumb.

QFT.

There are huge number of people asking constantly which one of the linked item is better, there are people who believe spirit is a wasted stat, there are people stacking wrong stats on their character (every item is a hunter item, lol), etc.

There's also a big difference which stat you stack depending your play style and spec. You can't just google priest or warlock for some general leveling guides. There are many ways to play your class.

[Deleted]

no no and no

one of the reasons why i don't like retail is that huge parts of the games have been dumped down because a few people have a hard time using their head and thinking for themselves and it's imo ruining WoW, turning it into a casual game for the most casual of casuals, with only very very little of the game being for hardcore players.

Vanilla doesn't need to be dumped down and if it's too hard for people then too bad, then it's not a game for you

[Akka]

I guess secondary stats doesn't exist at all in Legion and every gear just have "adds dps" modifies...

I've been playing wrong game the whole time !

From the very post you quote :

Or rather sounds like you simply don't have the choice, because there is next to no way to custom your gear in Legion, duh.
There is, what, three or four enchants, which are all about chosing one of the five secondary stat out of which one is nearly always the clear winner ?

You manage to not be able to even read one of the only two sentences to a post before making a dumbass reply. Congrats.

- - - Updated - - -

Not "hard" by any stretch. For current reference: Check gearing guides relating to Vanilla gearing and optimization.

Convoluted =/= hard to handle.

Because it's tiring to repeat oneself :

It's not hard to look up shit, that's true.
But as said above : people are idiots. They just copy-paste what they read was "the best" without using their brain, ignoring context and significance, and that's the reason why we end up with cookie-cutter builds which are presented as the absolute truth and claims that "only this is good and everything else is garbage". Not because "lol Vanilla/TBC were terrible, only this specific spec was viable", but more because fucktards couldn't grasp that "this spec" was 1 to 2 % better than "this one", which means they were, in the end, practically equal (and one could be better at handling irregularities or offering more utilities).

[mhdoe]

The fact you think the stats were hard makes me think you did not understand them.

[Akka]

The private server community is even worse. They follow BiS lists religiously without knowing why. If Blizzard were to shuffle some things around the majority would be completely lost, yes they are that dumb.

True. Though TBH, that's also exactly the same in the current WoW playerbase.

Let's face it : the statistical analysis in WoW is actually not that simple. It's not extremely complicated, but it's not trivial.
People act like arrogant pricks because they read the guide of someone more intelligent who did the real work. And they then pretend it's child play (while their only effort thas been to mindlessly read and regurgitate what they read).
Especially funny when they, as I've said before, completely fail to take into account the context and the relevance of the analysis and end up saying nonsense due to that.

Put the random forum shithead who act all high and mighty and smart, remove all the statistical knowledge he has of WoW, deprives him of the sources spoonfeeding him, and make him do the actual analysis. Let's see then if he'll find said stat so easy to understand.
(hint : he won't)

[Queen of Hamsters]

no no and no

one of the reasons why i don't like retail is that huge parts of the games have been dumped down because a few people have a hard time using their head and thinking for themselves and it's imo ruining WoW, turning it into a casual game for the most casual of casuals, with only very very little of the game being for hardcore players.

Vanilla doesn't need to be dumped down and if it's too hard for people then too bad, then it's not a game for you

Vanilla is literally the dumbest iteration of the game in terms of what is required to perform. While it's possible to be a casual in the game today, there's also way more room for being hardcore and optimizing performance which actually requires more of the player than anything in Classic ever did in terms of gameplay capabilities.

Just look at how the theorycrafting for Classic looks. Plenty of people that never amount to anything on Live past LFR, handle Classic just fine.

[Akka]

There are huge number of people asking constantly which one of the linked item is better, there are people who believe spirit is a wasted stat, there are people stacking wrong stats on their character (every item is a hunter item, lol), etc.

There's also a big difference which stat you stack depending your play style and spec. You can't just google priest or warlock for some general leveling guides. There are many ways to play your class.

:nods approvingly:

Though I'd say, it's a pretty big point in favour of Vanilla. Legion is much, much more boring when it comes to stat, and they basically all provides higher output.

[Deleted]

Vanilla is literally the dumbest iteration of the game in terms of what is required to perform. While it's possible to be a casual in the game today, there's also way more room for being hardcore and optimizing performance which actually requires more of the player than anything in Classic ever did in terms of gameplay capabilities.

Just look at how the theorycrafting for Classic looks. Plenty of people that never amount to anything on Live past LFR, handle Classic just fine.

imo the only room for being hardcore in todays wow is mythic
everything else can easily be done with sub optimal gearing and a few hours of playing each week.

Yeh, vanilla wasn't "hard", it was more time consuming than anything.
But you couldn't just run through zones, pulling groups of mobs or run through dungeons, while levelling, without having to stop for a single second.
Gone is the ways of having to cc-chain mobs and make use of the different classes spells when clearing, to not wipe. They have given heals and streamlined class specific spells so that almost all classes have some form of iteration of the same spells.

[Queen of Hamsters]

imo the only room for being hardcore in todays wow is mythic
everything else can easily be done with sub optimal gearing and a few hours of playing each week.

Yeh, vanilla wasn't "hard", it was more time consuming than anything.
But you couldn't just run through zones, pulling groups of mobs, run through dungeons, while levelling without having to stop for a single second.
Gone is the ways of having to cc-chain mobs and make use of the different classes spells when clearing, to not wipe. They have given heals and streamlined class specific spells so that almost all classes have some form of iteration of the same spells.

If being hardcore is determined solely upon the difficulty of content that one faces, that means there's no room for being "hardcore" outside of leveling in Classic.

You can be as hardcore as you want in this game, in time spent OR effort spent to clearing the most difficult content. Same as in Classic. Playing Classic, doesn't automatically make a player "hardcore", plenty of people played that iteration casually and it was considered the casual MMORPG by players of other games of that time, for example.

And the days of CC and using different class spells haven't "gone", they've changed. Players utilize the classes and their abilities all the time, in the world and in instances.

[HumbleDuck]

Exactly, this proves the claim that overall tendency is for "retailers" to be a less comprehensive group assuming the poster plays on retail.

Wut? ?

[McNeil]

This thread is dumb because at no point in the game where stats ever complicated. Vanilla did have more different stats, but that doesn't complicate things since even if your uninformed with the game you can just look up guides on what to focus on. Maybe back in the day it wasn't a huge thing but it most certainly is now. I still do it a lot when I play on a lot of different alts, I don't always remember which stats suit my character better. I think this whole thread was just meant to bait people, seems to be working.

[Exeris]

Only thing I found a little complicated was misses and glancing blows without wasting stats.