So Alliance lost the Nightborne beacuse Tyrande was a dick?

[Rhlor]

All of these are dumb.

The first is not important, because only a toddler or someone operating from an outside context could think it's a good idea to join one side of a world war because someone said something nice and someone else was annoyed at her people dying for your sake.

The Shen'dralar are arcane magic users and also Night Elves. They are nearly identical to the Nightborne. The Sunwell is a font of holy magic, so it means absolutely nothing to the Nightborne. The Blood Elves have moved away from the arcane and more towards the Light in recent years, and they are a tiny fraction compared to the combined arcane forces of the Alliance (Silver Covenant, the mages of the Kirin tor, the Shen'dralar, the Draenei, Gnomes and Dwarves.

And "There could maybe, eventually be a better reason" is not a reason.

Joining either side of a massive conflict you know nothing about, when you know very little about either side and who they are made up of, while you are trying to rebuild your own society and recover from 10,000 years of isolated mana addiction is stupid.

Shen'dralar of the Alliance are a small group and frowned upon in the night elf society, most of the shen'dralar are loyal to their prince in eldre'thalas.

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And it will almost certainly be just as dumb is the blood elf intro quests, where "The Night Elves are spying on us because they think our use of magic is reckless and dangerous" and the Forsaken sending a handful of soldiers north to help Silvermoon were somehow justification for the entire city to decide it was a good idea to join the Horde. Which then turned around and completely bit them in the ass and got a bunch of them killed, but they continued to stick it out because reasons.

jaina/purge of dalaran

[Cleric75]

NE 10 000 years ago weren't addicted to magic. They were just over-reliant on it and used it in excess without really understanding it fully.

“I can quit cocaine whenever I want.”

[Rhlor]

The Shen'dralar are the most powerful and knowledgeable mages of the Highborne, the ones personally entrusted with Azshara's most important projects. Even with just that knowledge they are easily better than both the Nightborne and Blood Elves.

the magic of the shen'dralar is outdated, the blood elves are better because they developed new and more modern magics

[Hitei]

It does not matter if it contradicted ingame. It is stated the sunwell is both arcane and holy power and that is it unless they change it. The blood knights aren't the only ones drawing power from it, every last blood/high elf does.

Not to mention the sunwell is build on a ley line nexus.

I completely disagree. Not every blood elf is pulling on holy magic, and if it were both it would be blended. The game trumps an off-hand comment on the racial page, and if Blood Elves were still drawing arcane from it, their addiction would be getting worse not better.

The sunwell wouldn't need to be reignited if it was still a steady arcane source.

the magic of the shen'dralar is outdated, the blood elves are better because they developed new and more modern magics

Like what? The golems they copied from the mogu 1:1 a couple years ago? The Blood Elves aren't all that great.

jaina/purge of dalaran

You are nuts if you think the purge of Dalaran is anything like the wrathgate, Garrosh, Sylvanas or Kael's actions. The Blood Elves were free to leave, it was those who resisted who were met with force, and it was done in direct response to them doing something shitty.

[Tatzi]

IMO.

I expected the Nightborne to join the Alliance, because of some of the reasons listed in this thread.

And then I played through Suramar as an Alliance toon. Throughout the campaign, I always felt uneasy whenever Tyrande was there. It was very clear that she was there to do a job: fight the Legion and get the Nightwell out of their control. That's it. There is ZERO evidence of her doing anything to help; teach or otherwise be welcoming to the Nightborne.

Whereas on the Horde, I felt Liadrin was doing her duty but that every one and a while, she would drop a little "I understand what you did/what you're doing.". And she's not wrong. While I didn't feel like they were MORE chummy than the Alliance, they were definitely not as disinterested as the Alliance.

Despite this, I figured the connection to Night Elves would still win out, just because I didn't think they would give High Elves to the Alliance so they would get the Nightborne as a sort of consolation prize.

Personally I think the Nightborne being with the Horde makes sense. If I'm the leader of a faction and I have to choose a faction between two of my cousins (Night Elves/Blood Elves) who helped me out equally; I'm going to pick the one who trusts me/respects me, the one I share experiences with and the one who where I can have a voice (Battle power is important; but I figure it's irrelevant to bring up since, despite the Alliance having more numbers since forever, the Horde is seemingly able to keep up in any combat situation PvE or PvP related). Joining the Alliance would mean I'd always have the Night Elves (Tyrande) doubting me and bringing up my mistakes to make a point.

I'm not saying all this is good enough for the Nightborne to join the Horde as there is more story coming out; but I can see why they would choose the Horde.

[Combatbutler]

I completely disagree. Not every blood elf is pulling on holy magic, and if it were both it would be blended. The game trumps an off-hand comment on the racial page, and if Blood Elves were still drawing arcane from it, their addiction would be getting worse not better.

The sunwell wouldn't need to be reignited if it was still a steady arcane source.

What do you think was satiating their addiction ever since the sunwell was restored? It is also mentioned in shadow of the sun, how a bunch of high elves reacted to being bathed in the sunwell again. The sunwell helped the blood elves to properly deal with the addiction to the point of Rommath saying in legion that the blood elves are no longer addicted to magic. The game does not trump outside lore sources quite the opposite really, since the devs constantly clarify things on twitter for example, interviews, books and the recent addition of the chronicle.

The sunwell would still needed to be reignited a ley nexus isn't enough to sustain a well by itself, the original well needed a vial of water from eternity as a catalyst as well. Not to mention Kael'thas pumped vast amounts of arcane power from netherstorm into it as well.

[Hitei]

What do you think was satiating their addiction ever since the sunwell was restored? It is also mentioned in shadow of the sun, how a bunch of high elves reacted to being bathed in the sunwell again. The sunwell the blood elves to properly deal with the addiction to the point of Rommath saying in legion that the blood elves are no longer addicted to magic. The game does not trump outside lore sources quite the opposite really, since the devs constantly clarify things on twitter for example or interviews.

The sunwell would still needed to be reignited a ley nexus isn't enough to sustain a well by itself, the original well needed a vial of water from eternity as a catalyst as well. Not to mention Kael'thas pumped vast amounts of arcane power from netherstorm into it as well.

The addiction was broken by the restoration. They aren't constantly drawing arcane power from anywhere anymore.

I don't know why you think adding a naaru to a ley nexus drained of it s energy somehow introduces a renewed flow of arcane magic.

[Rhlor]

I completely disagree. Not every blood elf is pulling on holy magic, and if it were both it would be blended. The game trumps an off-hand comment on the racial page, and if Blood Elves were still drawing arcane from it, their addiction would be getting worse not better.

The sunwell wouldn't need to be reignited if it was still a steady arcane source.



Like what? The golems they copied from the mogu 1:1 a couple years ago? The Blood Elves aren't all that great.


You are nuts if you think the purge of Dalaran is anything like the wrathgate, Garrosh, Sylvanas or Kael's actions. The Blood Elves were free to leave, it was those who resisted who were met with force, and it was done in direct response to them doing something shitty.

the playable blood elves are not followers of kael. Lorthemar wanted to leave the horde for the actions of Garrosh, but with what Jaina did, all possibility of leaving the horde was over.


Andorel Sunsworn


"Amberwind was making use of an Arcane Construct? Hah! How delightfully inexperienced. It's like watching children play with firearms.

Let's take a look at that journal, <name>. Hold it up to the scrying stone... keep it still"

"Arcane constructs are creatures spawned of pure mana and intellect. In the right hands, a construct allows its user to quickly assimilate vast riches of arcane knowledge. But they're dangerous, <name>. So intelligent! So powerful! So very vulnerable to external tampering...

Let's teach these amateurs a lesson and use their own magic against them. Slay Apprentices and collect their runestones for me. Contact me via the lower scrying stone when you're done."

"Haha! Hah - HA! Night elf "mages" fleeing their own arcane creation. Your actions have made my month, <name>. That's why we blood elves don't use arcane constructs anymore - they've been outlawed for, oh, 1500 years. It's amusing to me to watch our foes repeat the mistakes of the past. "Mages." Indeed."

[Shakou]

No, the Alliance never gained the Nightborne to begin with. There was never any story element in the game at all that even eluded to the possibility. Horde gained them because they reached out to them. What are you people even bitching about other than not getting what you wanted? Nothing.

[Combatbutler]

The addiction was broken by the restoration. They aren't constantly drawing arcane power from anywhere anymore.

I don't know why you think adding a naaru to a ley nexus drained of it s energy somehow introduces a renewed flow of arcane magic.

Because the flow is constantly there and combined with the holy energy of the naaru, the remants of anveena, the ley nexus and the arcane power Kael gathered over years in netherstorm makes up the new well. The blood and high elves are all connected to the sunwell it was mentioned in the shadow of the sun and it was the very reason the common folk didn't use mana tap anymore they got a new source.

A ley line cannot truly be drained haven't you been paying attention during the Suramar quest chain? They are the blood vessels of the world so to speak.

[huth]

in fact the nightwell is dying slowly, at this moment it still exists

It's not dissipated yet, but it's functionally lost at the end of the Nighthold raid with Thalyssra's decision. Ultimately, this is little more than a short reprieve for them to seek a replacement.

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A ley line cannot truly be drained haven't you been paying attention during the Suramar quest chain? They are the blood vessels of the world so to speak.

About that...

[Hitei]

It's not dissipated yet, but it's functionally lost at the end of the Nighthold raid with Thalyssra's decision. Ultimately, this is little more than a short reprieve for them to seek a replacement.

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About that...

I dont' see why they would even seek a replacement after the events of the campaign.

[Rhlor]

It's not dissipated yet, but it's functionally lost at the end of the Nighthold raid with Thalyssra's decision. Ultimately, this is little more than a short reprieve for them to seek a replacement.

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About that...

have the help of the blood elves could give them one of these

[Shakou]

Nightborne betrayed their own people in WotA to save their own skin

Not even remotely accurate. The Nightborne were not always Nightborne, they were the High Elves of Suramar, as was Tyrande herself. They thought victory wasn't possible against the Legion and that doom was at hand and they cast a spell over the city to save their race.

This is not complicated. Tyrande "helped" them because helping them meant stopping the Legion.

The Horde never treated them like they were beneath them, no matter how you look at it Tyrande did, literally treated them like children. Really basic shit dude.

Amazing how the lore in this game is so simple and people complicate it by making up their own head cannon and shit. Fact of the matter is that the Horde made more effort to reach out to them it's actually plainly obvious in the game and not debatable. So if you ever thought the Nightborne would be a playable race and ally with the Alliance you were taking some crazy pills.

[xxcloud417xx]

Having those characters join the Horde makes zero sense. It completely throws the entire campaign out of the window for Alliance players, and they just got rid of Elisande, why are they joining an even worse Elisande?

Shit isn't fair, and this argument is baseless. I play a Horde Paladin, tell me again how throwing a whole portion of the story and campaign out the window sucks when Turalyon fucks off and joins the Alliance and likely takes Arator with him. Give me a break.

What groundwork? A single conversation between a secondary Nightborne character and Liadrin? I don't see how that trumps the groundwork laid out by the entire first half of the Suramar campaign.

It's not a single conversation. There's been a few and Liadrin is legit one hell of an ambassador to the Horde. Shit, I'd make her warchief if it was up to me. The irony of the Horde having a Paladin warchief and the Alliance no longer having Paladin kings would be worth it alone.

[Shakou]

It's not a single conversation. There's been a few and Liadrin is legit one hell of an ambassador to the Horde. Shit, I'd make her warchief if it was up to me. The irony of the Horde having a Paladin warchief and the Alliance no longer having Paladin kings would be worth it alone.

Clearly people making these stupid arguments have not played through the entire quest line as Horde or are just not intelligent enough to notice that Tyrande was a total dick to them and the Horde treated them as equals the whole time. The whole point is the Nightborne don't want bow to their new (but actually old, as Tyrande is herself Highborn Night Elf from Suramar) Druid overlords and there's that whole point made loud in clear in legion that the Druids did not have the foresight to understand what it would take to stop the Legion at all.

Without the Nightborne in Legion Illidan's story would have much less impact, and without the Nightfallen rebels his resurrection wasn't even POSSIBLE. But people miss subtlety and think OMG it's not the end of the world that Tyrande was literally preaching at the Nightborne about blahblahblah magic bad, y'all are like kids basically, and so in their mind no reason Nightborne are not Alliance even though the Alliance did not ever even make an offer for them to join in the first place. Also, another thing that makes it THEMATICALLY clear and obvious that joining the Alliance wasn't ever a possibility: The Nightborne did not abandon magic anyways they just found a cure that essentially stops their dependence on being near the Nightwell. The point is they don't want to conform or play things safe, and aren't afraid of adapting and trying new things, and all of those sort of things are the opposite of what the Alliance is about, they're more about preserving their territory and cultural identity and gaining back things they lost and restoring the world to what it was before the initial Orc invasion.

Again, none of this is complicated.

[Hitei]

Shit isn't fair, and this argument is baseless. I play a Horde Paladin, tell me again how throwing a whole portion of the story and campaign out the window sucks when Turalyon fucks off and joins the Alliance and likely takes Arator with him. Give me a break.

Wowee, you mean the Alliance hero married to an Alliance hero who hates the Horde, and their Alliance son who had been spending most of his time in an Alliance base in Outland... will be joining the Alliance?

[Rhlor]

Wowee, you mean the Alliance hero married to an Alliance hero who hates the Horde, and their Alliance son who had been spending most of his time in an Alliance base in Outland... will be joining the Alliance?

He was part of the army of light for a thousand years

[elbleuet]

He was part of the army of light for a thousand years

And the army of the light is a draeneï army. Draeneï are part of the Alliance, and lightforged draeneï will be part of the Alliance. What's wrong with that ?

[Rhlor]

And the army of the light is a draeneï army. Draeneï are part of the Alliance, and lightforged draeneï will be part of the Alliance. What's wrong with that ?

it was a neutral group that also receives help from the horde and they will be part of the alliance just as the nightborne will be part of the horde. stop complaining