Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[Deleted]

Coven and Aggramar were way more memorable. I just hope his Mythic version won't be as irrelevant as his Heroic version.

[Deleted]

There is nothing about "target audience".

The boss is piss easy because there are simply no mechanics to it.

If you get even a bit lucky, the only thing a DPS has to do in this fight boils down to:

P1 - move with raid every 20s when boss casts Cone of Death

P2 - Move from obvious black lines every 5-10s

P3 - Move from obvious black lines every 20s

P4 - Move from swirlies every 5s


How can this even remotely fall under the "oh but you are mythic raider doing heroic bosses" -card?

Even with 10 less ilvl overall(we had 941.8 and 941.4 ilvl in our 2 splits average) in the raid it would still be easily doable with better raid CD assignment.

And how has ANY of the other end bosses over the past 12 years be any different? 4/5 abilities, move out of or soak.
Again, you're not the person its made for. You're overgearing it and are to good for this content so its piss easy for you.
The people its made for don't have 20 people that can move out of random swirlies or soak something quickly. Thats why they are Heroic raiders instead of Mythic.

Stop moaning about content that isn't made for you.

- - - Updated - - -

Most heroic raiders are going to kill it with much better gear than current mythic raiders have, which will make the boss even more of a joke. Phases 1 and 2 should have been merged together or something so there's actual mechanics happening. Phase 3 would be okay if it weren't for the fact that everyone gets ressed in the transition to P4 so even if you get through it with a single person alive you're perfectly fine. P4 is just undertuned. As it stands Argus is probably the 4th easiest boss in the raid.

Which is just a flat out lie.
All 6 of Slootbag's chars are better geared then most of the people in my "mythic" raiding guild (we never finish it, we usually stop half way).
We have 3 people above 940 at the moment 2 of which are tanks and the other a DK that just puts on their highest ilvl shit.

Stop making up random bullshit facts so that it fits your agenda.

[Deleted]

seeing how guilds and groups "struggled" or at least admitted that kiljaeden was kinda hard even on heroic... i cant shake off the feeling that billzard has something in the bag for antorus / sargeras.

idk... maybe a secret boss / phase that gets released later? fighting sargeras with illidan to contain him? some kind of "heroes! come back illidan has problems!"

maybe after the frist few guilds have killed him on mythic? maybe a fillerraid ala wotlk is released connected with the sword in silithus.

or maybe its just a secret mythic phase. which leads me to think about why is the tuning so all over the place in legion?

[borisshayo]

Has anyone who's defending the boss here even pulled it? You idiots realize that mythic raiders not being the target audience for hc argus doesn't change the fact that it's literally one of the easiest fights in the raid.

Which is just a flat out lie.
All 6 of Slootbag's chars are better geared then most of the people in my "mythic" raiding guild (we never finish it, we usually stop half way).
We have 3 people above 940 at the moment 2 of which are tanks and the other a DK that just puts on their highest ilvl shit.

Stop making up random bullshit facts so that it fits your agenda.

I obviously meat that by the time most people get to the boss they'll have farmers hc for atleast a couple of weeks, which gives them better gear than people who have currently killed it with mostly mythic TOS gear. HC Antorus drops better gear than mythic Tomb so that's just an objective fact

[Tehterokkar]

People with 950i crying that Argus Heroic is too easy

Hint : Argus Heroic is not balanced for you. We will hear about your complaints when you'll be one-shotting Argus Mythic, this version is the one balanced for you.

I'm pretty sure a few "Heroic guilds" or Casual players will have a hard time dealing with Argus.



And what is a great heroic fight then ?

Kil'Jaeden boils down to, for a random DPS :
P1 : hit the boss
Interphase : AFK
P2 : hit the boss, cleave the adds
Interphase : find Illidaddy or follow your group and kill the adds
P4 : hit the boss, and once during the complete fight, go into the vacuum cleaner

Wow indeed Kil'jaeden looked piss easy too

You are really bad at this trolling business. You didn't read my OP, you have no clue about the actual fight and how it is. And you forgot the most important mechanic of KJ, Armageddon Rain, which will wipe your raid, even on heroic, if you let 1 spot go unsoaked and in last phase you will easily die to Pylons if you don't find the right spot to stand at.

PS. KJ was boring as well. Archimonde and Blackhand were both great fights.

[Deleted]

seeing how guilds and groups "struggled" or at least admitted that kiljaeden was kinda hard even on heroic... i cant shake off the feeling that billzard has something in the bag for antorus / sargeras.

idk... maybe a secret boss / phase that gets released later? fighting sargeras with illidan to contain him? some kind of "heroes! come back illidan has problems!"

maybe after the frist few guilds have killed him on mythic? maybe a fillerraid ala wotlk is released connected with the sword in silithus.

or maybe its just a secret mythic phase. which leads me to think about why is the tuning so all over the place in legion?

You know who said this?
The people its made for, not Mythic raiders clearing it week 1.
These same people will be saying Argus will be hard AF for them as well.

[Ophenia]

You are really bad at this trolling business. You didn't read my OP, you have no clue about the actual fight and how it is. And you forgot the most important mechanic of KJ, Armageddon Rain, which will wipe your raid, even on heroic, if you let 1 spot go unsoaked and in last phase you will easily die to Pylons if you don't find the right spot to stand at.

PS. KJ was boring as well. Archimonde and Blackhand were both great fights.

I didn't forget about Armageddon rain. I just supposed this random DPS was not concerned by this problem. Same way as you assumed you were not concerned by any debuff cast during Argus fight, for whatever reason (maybe you've only seen the fight by dying on the first Cone of death ?). There are lots of debuffs that you're supposed to manage during Argus fight. Not only "obvious lines to avoid each XXs".

Pylons, if your tank places the boss correctly, you won't really have to care either.

Blackhand, for a random DPS, was boring as fuck as well. Same as your Argus definition. "Just avoid stuff lel".

seeing how guilds and groups "struggled" or at least admitted that kiljaeden was kinda hard even on heroic... i cant shake off the feeling that billzard has something in the bag for antorus / sargeras.

idk... maybe a secret boss / phase that gets released later? fighting sargeras with illidan to contain him? some kind of "heroes! come back illidan has problems!"

The whole 2 last phases are blacked out in Mythic Codex. That's a complete 40% of "Mythic phases / skills" that were not even seen on PTR.

[Deleted]

And how has ANY of the other end bosses over the past 12 years be any different? 4/5 abilities, move out of or soak.
Again, you're not the person its made for. You're overgearing it and are to good for this content so its piss easy for you.
The people its made for don't have 20 people that can move out of random swirlies or soak something quickly. Thats why they are Heroic raiders instead of Mythic.

Stop moaning about content that isn't made for you.

I believe what people are "complaining" about is the fact that to even get to Argus, you have to pass through Coven & Aggramar, both of which are more difficult bosses than Argus is. This has little to do with being the target audience or not as the heroic only raiders will have to pass through the same bosses and have a harder time there than they will on Argus when they reach him.

[Nitros14]

Doesn't anyone remember Madness of Deathwing? That was at least as easy as Argus for an end of expansion boss.

[borisshayo]

You know who said this?
The people its made for, not Mythic raiders clearing it week 1.
These same people will be saying Argus will be hard AF for them as well.

No, they won't, as Argus is literally one of the easiest bosses in the raid. Please don't post when you don't know what you're talking about

[Deleted]

I believe what people are "complaining" about is the fact that to even get to Argus, you have to pass through Coven & Aggramar, both of which are more difficult bosses than Argus is. This has little to do with being the target audience or not as the heroic only raiders will have to pass through the same bosses and have a harder time there than they will on Argus when they reach him.

So? the whole damn instance is going to be Eazy and sleepworthy for people that raid mythic and overgear it to shit.
This whole post is just "look at me being awsome, what a shit instance, im so good".

Its like me saying "OMG! NORMAL IS SO EASY! WE ONE SHOT IT ALL!". No shit sherlock, I overgear the living crap out of it.

How bout you wait for Mythic, which all these players should be raiding before making stupid posts like this.

My gf's guild who is a heroic only guild will be stuck on this raid for weeks/months.

[Deleted]

You know who said this?
The people its made for, not Mythic raiders clearing it week 1.
These same people will be saying Argus will be hard AF for them as well.

Kil'jaeden took my guild about 30-40 pulls, Argus we killed on our 2nd pull heroic. Even if you want to pretend that its fine to be this easy because its only heroic, there are 2 bosses before him that are far harder in Aggramar and Coven. Coven in particular is a pretty punishing fight.

Its honestly kind of bizarre how easy Argus is, p1 and p2 are so simple I wonder how they could even be made a threat for mythic. There is almost nothing going on till the add phase, which is the only midly threatening phase but even then you get a full group resurrect for last phase and even more resurrections for the equally simple final phase.

[Tehterokkar]

And how has ANY of the other end bosses over the past 12 years be any different? 4/5 abilities, move out of or soak.
Again, you're not the person its made for. You're overgearing it and are to good for this content so its piss easy for you.
The people its made for don't have 20 people that can move out of random swirlies or soak something quickly. Thats why they are Heroic raiders instead of Mythic.

Stop moaning about content that isn't made for you.

You still don't get it.

There are no mechanics that you can wipe to. You literally sit there with your hand on your dick for the entire fight, then any personal mistakes you did in P1-P3 get remedied in P4 for free. There is no soft-enrage or berserk timer you have to worry about, it's plain and boring with 1 mechanic in P1 and P2 that 3 people have to react to within 6-10 seconds or there is some raid damage.

Which is just a flat out lie.
All 6 of Slootbag's chars are better geared then most of the people in my "mythic" raiding guild (we never finish it, we usually stop half way).
We have 3 people above 940 at the moment 2 of which are tanks and the other a DK that just puts on their highest ilvl shit.

Stop making up random bullshit facts so that it fits your agenda.

You aren't doing the content Blizzard is giving you. So stop complaining that you have shit gear. My DK was 916 ilvl and I got her to 932 in a week because I wanted to do join an optional normal run with "3rd alts" with 2 gear upgrades from heroic ToS and the rest from Relinquished.

So if someone who has been playing their character for the entire tier, done m+10 every week and cleared heroic ToS every week isn't 940 by now, you clearly have not been playing the game.

Slootbag plays all day, he does heroic ToS runs and does all content. He can do that because Streaming is his "job". So it's no wonder all of his 6 toons are 940 when they do the content Blizzard gives for you to do.

[Deleted]

So? the whole damn instance is going to be Eazy and sleepworthy for people that raid mythic and overgear it to shit.
This whole post is just "look at me being awsome, what a shit instance, im so good".

Its like me saying "OMG! NORMAL IS SO EASY! WE ONE SHOT IT ALL!". No shit sherlock, I overgear the living crap out of it.

How bout you wait for Mythic, which all these players should be raiding before making stupid posts like this.

My gf's guild who is a heroic only guild will be stuck on this raid for weeks/months.

And again the whole issue is not with the overall difficulty of the raid as a whole but with the relative difficulty of the end boss being easier than the bosses preceding him. The end boss is supposed to be the pinnacle of the raid.

[Arcanines]

You and the OP aren't the "targeted" audience. You are both Mythic raiders with 940/950+ in the whole raid.

So not sure what you 2 are moaning about. This boss will be hard enough for the people its actually targeting. The ones that are finishing off Normal now slowly getting into Heroic.

I mean HEROIC DROPS 945, I fail to see the corelation, we're at the ilvl the raid drops if not lower, If the raid drops 945 and people are 937-950 as in my guilds case. Per drops we're still at its level. Thing is the bosses doesn't punish anyone.

[Nitros14]

And again the whole issue is not with the overall difficulty of the raid as a whole but with the relative difficulty of the end boss being easier than the bosses preceding him. The end boss is supposed to be the pinnacle of the raid.

Tell that to Madness of Deathwing.

[Netherblood]

Argus is bugged and doesn't cast soul bombs and soul bursts as much as he should in last phase. Even then his earlier phases are super easy but maybe if he is hotfixed to work properly he'll get a little harder.

[Shalanoree]

I believe what people are "complaining" about is the fact that to even get to Argus, you have to pass through Coven & Aggramar, both of which are more difficult bosses than Argus is. This has little to do with being the target audience or not as the heroic only raiders will have to pass through the same bosses and have a harder time there than they will on Argus when they reach him.

That might be a concern, but it might also be intentional. The raid is designed as a complete challenge, so some pieces can be a bit less difficult if they compensate somewhere else. And maybe they want people to be able to get their spec trinkets and upgrade them fairly easily, since it will make so much difference on how you do the fights.

I'm guessing the overgearing is more noticeable when a boss has less health, which makes you skip some ability overlaps that less geared/skilled people will have to overcome. For example, we had some pretty nasty overlaps on Mistress and Kil'jaeden for the first couple of weeks, but some weeks later we wouldn't even see some of the abilities during the fight, as we had more damage to skip them.

That being said, I expect my "common" heroic guild (that only so often kills some mythic bosses, due to roster stability) to kill the boss by Christmas, which will be fairly similar to past raids...(we usually do normal on the first week, and within the next 3-4 weeks get down the last boss on heroic).

[Emerald Archer]

Eh, honestly though, mythic is what matters. It's what fights should be judged on. Mythic is the complete fight, and heroic/normal are easier versions with mechanics removed to cater to their skill level.

It may not be great for heroic only raiders, but i'm sure they will still take a while to get there, as a few bosses prior can pose a bit of a challenge.

Seeing mythic raiders complain about it, is a bit of a joke. Don't complain on behalf of the heroic raiders, let them complain about it themselves, if it bothers them by the time they clear it.

[Siglius]

Pretty much took the same time to clear this as we did ToS, only difference was that end boss was easier and bosses before him were harder.

So far around 500 guilds have killed 11/11HC, does anyone know how that compares to earlier raids? I would imagine it's about the same.