Silvermoon, Nightborne And Alleria broadcast text (spoilers)

[Deleted]

And Alleria helped save Azeroth from the Legion, if we're going by "merit badges".

You said that Silvermoon served the same monster that destroyed it in the first place. Sylvanas was paraded by Arthas in Silvermoon, she didn't fought the High Elves after was turned into a banshee.

So, no, Silvermoon doesn't serve the same monster that destroyed it in the first place, Silvermoon serves the one that saved Anveena Teague.

[Rhlor]

And Alleria helped save Azeroth from the Legion, if we're going by "merit badges".

And you can't deny that Sylvanas is treading the same path Arthas did. Down the point of using his Val'kyr, attempting to enslave more val'kyrs, and raising the dead to bolster their armies. "But the forsaken she raises have free will" you may say, to which I reply "do they, really?" Think about it: the people of Lordaeron were humans, part of the original Alliance. When raised, if they indeed have free will, why would they side with Sylvanas? Not just side with her, but also idolize her. I don't think I've met a single Forsaken that doesn't have a shrine dedicated to Sylvanas in their back room, so to speak.

- - - Updated - - -


They're still allowed within city borders any time they wish. That's the point.

Citing sources

according to the class description of the DH the elves (blood/night) fear them and despise

[Sigxy]

study the knowledge of a guy who is responsible for the death of almost the entire race and a magic that almost destroys sunwell for me falls into the category of traitors

I wouldn't say it makes them 'traitors'... but I can definitely see why they were thrown out if they would sutdy this and risk becoming a threat.

[Ielenia]

You said that Silvermoon served the same monster that destroyed it in the first place. Sylvanas was paraded by Arthas in Silvermoon, she didn't fought the High Elves after was turned into a banshee.

So, no, Silvermoon doesn't serve the same monster that destroyed it in the first place, Silvermoon serves the one that saved Anveena Teague.

That's not what I meant. Arthas sought to destroy life on Azeroth. He also enslaved Val'Kyrs to his bidding. He also raised the bodies of fallen people, against their consent. Sylvanas has little to no care about life on Azeroth. She also took Arthas' Val'kyrs and attempted to enslave more to her bidding. She also raises the bodies of fallen people, against their consent, and mind-controls them to serve her.

Why am I claiming she mind-controls them? Think about it: why would any Forsaken that was a Lordaeron citizen follow her?

- - - Updated - - -

Citing sources

according to the class description of the DH the elves (blood/night) fear them and despise

I never claimed them to be adored or anything. It's just that they're allowed within city limits without much of a fuss.

[Deleted]

Kael'thas explicitly sent him to spread word of his great achievements in Outland and the new ways that Illidan taught him after Rommath witnessed everything. We all know what Illidan taught the blood elves.

None was about fel embracing. It's a continuous misconception that Rommath teached Silvermoon about fel. He did not, he teached arcane magic siphoning.

[Friendlyimmolation]

That's not what I meant. Arthas sought to destroy life on Azeroth. He also enslaved Val'Kyrs to his bidding. He also raised the bodies of fallen people, against their consent. Sylvanas has little to no care about life on Azeroth. She also took Arthas' Val'kyrs and attempted to enslave more to her bidding. She also raises the bodies of fallen people, against their consent, and mind-controls them to serve her.

Why am I claiming she mind-controls them? Think about it: why would any Forsaken that was a Lordaeron citizen follow her?

Oh boy, we’ve reached headcanon, turn on your blinders everyone.

[Rhlor]

What do you mean it's not the point? Loth'remar from a diplomatic stand point was pretty nice I think the audacity for Alleria to roll up in slivermoon and come with an offer to join the Alliance is a bloody insult. He even allowed her near the sunwell against Rommath's protests.

I think banishment is actually the softer option if they are not going to stop pursuing the path of the void which is clear to anyone if so they are a permanent threat to the lives of every elf in slivermoon.

they are a danger to the sunwell that's enough to make them all fuck up! also study the crap of darkhan!

[Deleted]

Why am I claiming she mind-controls them? Think about it: why would any Forsaken that was a Lordaeron citizen follow her?

The upcoming book pretty much finishes the "Sylvanas mind-controls people". She doesn't and it's stated on the preview.

But enough of moving goalposts from your part, you stated that Silvermoon follows the monster that destroyed it. It's completely false.

[Rhlor]

That's not what I meant. Arthas sought to destroy life on Azeroth. He also enslaved Val'Kyrs to his bidding. He also raised the bodies of fallen people, against their consent. Sylvanas has little to no care about life on Azeroth. She also took Arthas' Val'kyrs and attempted to enslave more to her bidding. She also raises the bodies of fallen people, against their consent, and mind-controls them to serve her.

Why am I claiming she mind-controls them? Think about it: why would any Forsaken that was a Lordaeron citizen follow her?

- - - Updated - - -


I never claimed them to be adored or anything. It's just that they're allowed within city limits without much of a fuss.

source where say thier are allowed to visit the city? game mechanics = / = lore

[Ielenia]

The upcoming book pretty much finishes the "Sylvanas mind-controls people". She doesn't and it's stated on the preview.

So why do people that previously had no connection to Sylvanas suddenly do a 180 degree turn when raised and then follow her every command and idolize her, but also hate the living?

But enough of moving goalposts from your part, you stated that Silvermoon follows the monster that destroyed it. It's completely false.

I did not say that. I said, and I quote:

But it's totally fine pledging allegiance to someone who is treading the same path of the monster who nearly eradicated their race and corrupted their precious Sunwell in the first place?

I said Sylvanas is following in the footsteps of Arthas.

source where say thier are allowed to visit the city? game mechanics = / = lore

DKs, after leaving their starting zone, are peppered with rotten food being thrown by civilians as they cross their respective capitals to reach their leaders, who, after reading the recommendation letter from Tyrion, they're accepted into the city.

DHs didn't have that. So, while it's perfectly possible to say that DHs are barred from entering capitals, I think it's safer to assume that they're not as reviled as DKs are, considering that DHs never participated in a mass-genocide campaign like the DKs did.

[Zaelsino]

Did Alleria graduate from the same school of diplomacy as Tyrande? Did she really think coming back to her homeland after thirty years and presenting herself as an errand girl for the enemy king was the right way to open that conversation?

[Deleted]

???
Kael'thas was called a traitor *AFTER* he was revealed to be an ally of the Legion, who were the enemy of all of us. Pretty sure by the time they were exiled, the Void Elves haven't allied with anyone who was / is against the Blood Elves yet.

But it's still a betrayal for Lor'themar and Rommath. Yes, they are quick to jugde "Void studying = evil Void followers", but it is a betrayal in their eyes.

[Rhlor]

Velen fulfilled his life's purpose. I'm surprised he isn't sleeping on the table.




I said this:



Why would you then reply to me and say it is neutral when what I said means it is neutral.

Of course he did it to stop the Legion, but an Alliance leader proved to be trustworthy in the past and actually made their Sunwell's restoration possible in the first place, which is why saying Alliance in an alienating way when talking about the Sunwell makes no sense. The same applies to all the Alliance high elves that fought for the Sunwell's restoration.

there were no high elves in the restoration of the sunwell

[Deleted]

So why do people that previously had no connection to Sylvanas suddenly do a 180 degree turn when raised and then follow her every command and idolize her, but also hate the living?

Except not all raised undead praise Sylvanas? Undercity is now ruled by a council that has a complete opposite view of Sylvanas' ideals.

[Qualia]

So why do people that previously had no connection to Sylvanas suddenly do a 180 degree turn when raised and then follow her every command and idolize her, but also hate the living?

That wasn't mind control. This was explained before, to answer your question: basically, if someone died a violent dead (i.e: in middle of battle), if they were resurrected right away, they wouldn't be fully in control of their emotion and would go into an enraged state. Sylvanas might have made use of it to let them attack their former allies, but it wasn't mind-control, more like manipulation (so technically they still act according to their own wills). When they (the resurrected) calmed down, they would be given the choices like everything else (join Sylvanas, or left, or be killed right there), but by then what's done is done. Additionally, The UD hate the living by default, it's not Sylvanas' doing.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Did Alleria graduate from the same school of diplomacy as Tyrande? Did she really think coming back to her homeland after thirty years and presenting herself as an errand girl for the enemy king was the right way to open that conversation?

I want to negotiate

*rolls a 1*

“ Im a human loving errand girl, want to join the Alliance!?!?”

[Rhlor]

How are they in any way similar to Kel'Thuzad? Kel'thuzad only became traitor when he joined the Lich King and turned against us. He wasn't a traitor before that, even when he carried out his research of necromancy for his own interests and got expelled. There is pretty much no similarity between the Void Elves studying Dar'Khan's knowledge to protect Silvermoon / Azeroth and Kel'Thuzad did his own research of necromancy for himself. Please tell me how they are "much like"? They are only alike in the way that they, after being expelled / exiled, joined another faction / organization opposing their previous one, but that wasn't what you are calling them traitors for.

If you pay attention to it, the very line you quoted mention no Dar'Khan whatsoever. They were expelled because they dabbled in the void and considered dangerous factors. They weren't expelled because they studied Dar'Khan's knowledge, or because they were considered traitors, or they committed any treason act. Even Rommath, whose mind wasn't the most open one, didn't call them "traitors", he called them "radicals" - there is a difference between two terms. Or are you having a very funny definition of "traitor" that is different from us and the dictionary?

actually he was tried in court for practicing dark magic

[Qualia]

actually he was tried in court for practicing dark magic

Are you talking about Kel'thuzad? If you are, then yes, he was tried by the other members of the Council and expelled. That didn't make him a traitor, however. It made him (at worst) a criminal. A traitor is a criminal but a criminal isn't necessarily a traitor. He was only a traitor after he started acting against us in the Lich King's interests.

[Brocksley]

It is just a big bag of suck that they've gone this direction with her return. So apparently whatever version of events that Vereesa gave about the fall of Quel'thalas -- which she skipped out on? Hid under a rock? -- that version stands as what we ever know that Alleria is told about what happened to her people, and how they began to rebound, and it wasn't even worth featuring "on screen" at all?

Just to recap -- an Alliance kingdom's laziness and complacency about dealing with the emerging plague, the undead/legion threat precipitating the Third War, culminated in their great prince willingly changing sides, then murdering his own people, then nearly wiping out Quel'thalas on an errand. After that, the remaining Alliance leadership tacitly cooperated with the elves, but really just wanted them for cannon fodder. After THAT, when the Third War ended, the Dwarves sent at least one spy/saboteur to size up the Sin'dorei's rebuilding instead of -- as one might think for Alliance-adjacent peoples -- helping them rebuild. And around the same time or shortly after the Night Elves made a military incursion into Quel'thalas and began setting up Moonwells.

In the meantime, the freed undead under Sylvanas came to offer their aid in fighting the Scourge still lingering in Quel'thalas and posing a continuing threat, and leveraged their relationship with the Horde to get the Blood Elves in -- in large part because they suddenly found themselves alliance (and Alliance)-less.

That sums up the "Horde v. Alliance" components. Vereesa probably had much to say about the political schism that formed over the use of mana from living creatures to survive and the dissidents eventual banishment, but I'm guessing she probably skimmed pretty lightly across anything that made the Alliance look like a bad actor.

So either Alleria has only ever heard that version, and didn't therefore care much, or she still hasn't, and Lor'themar just doesn't even bother to try with her. It's just a bit disappointing that all she has to say about any of this is "Alliance is awesome, come join us? No, then screw you". Because THAT is consistent with how she was previously written. Somehow.

Thanks for summing up exactly how I feel about it too. I was super hyped for her return after so long, but not like this.

[Rhlor]

That isn't the only major inconsistency.

Lor'themar is now banishing his own people who are in the same position as he was in the past, instead of finding a way to help them.

Rommath told them to stop studying that shit.
Fuck them, the Sunwell is the most important

- - - Updated - - -

They didn't open the portal. Alleria's presence did. If Tauror was saying that the Void Elves were exiled because they were dangerous, I wouldn't have disagreed. I mentioned myself that the exile was a very understandable decision given the incident at the Sunwell. You surely don't want them to be near it. However, being dangerous doesn't make them traitors. Studying Dar'Khan's knowledge to protect Silvermoon doesn't make them traitors. Tauror was implying that Alleria picked up a group of traitors - she didn't. When she picked them up, they were just an exiled group who researched the Void, seemingly got transformed and almost corrupted by Nether Prince Durzaan. To be honest, not much different from the Highborn when they were exiled by Malfurion for carrying out arcane researches - just replace Arcane with Void, and that they got trapped by a follower of the Void. Alternatively, she could leave them alone, but it'd be even worse as they wouldn't know how to control their power properly - which wouldn't end well for any of us, I suppose.

There is a different between recruiting a traitor and a dangerous exile. She believed she can help them to keep themselves in the good path, there isn't anything wrong about it, is there? That might be a bit risky / overconfident, but seeing VE as a race will likely remain in game, I guess she'll be more or less successful at it.

THE GRAND MAGISTER ROMMATH told Magister Umbric to stop studying that void shit because it was dangerous! Umbric and his followers betrayed the leader of the magister at the time of disobeying him and studying the magic of the greatest traitor in the history of quelthalas !!