Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[kamuimac]

Ladies and Gentleman,

here we see the dissonance inside Blizzard development.
There are absolutely separate teams who are responsible for the raid encounters themselves and separate teams for gearing, and these are even separated from the core class balance team.

OR

they strongly underestimated the value and frequency of titanforging.
My friends who mostly pug and only do heroic and M+ are already geared beyond Heroic Argus. Sure, they will get a few upgrades and TF Heroic pieces are an upgrade for them (let's not forget about pantheon trinkets and T21), but hey, is this even makes sense?

We overgear a new raid BEFORE it's release ??? That's truly some old god madness shit right here.

or maybe beisdes 10k most hardocre junkies normal people dont clear mythic + >10000 times and dont farm mythic for half of year to et those upgrades ?

nah logical answears are unwanted eh ? lets bitch about imaginary "titanforging problems" that nobody besides hardocre idiots see in game.

[Siglius]

After 3 days (US release), there were 136 KJ HC kills worldwide, including Asia. In the first full reset 1238 kills.

Where is there data like this for other bosses?

[Deleted]

Where is there data like this for other bosses?

Wowprogress...

[durrtygoodz]

Ok, I got 951ilvl right now without raiding ToS mythic (first 3 bosses with pugs just before antorus dont count), I don't want to commit to organized guild raiding, yet I want to have challenging content in game. Now what? Heroic KJ was a challenge, Argus... is not.

The fact you can even be 951 ilvl already is a problem with titanforging, but I don't see non-mythic raiders complaining about that

[Fappy]

Man, Heroic farm clears 3-4 months from now in Mythic gear/full raid of pantheon trinkets is going to be hilarious. Argus is going to melt so fast.

[lockybalboa]

Blame it on the titanforged and M+ system. Most raiders are 940s going into this new raid, and so every boss melts really fast. Don't be surprised if mythic argus gets killed in the first week.

[ItsTiddles]

There are no mechanics that you can wipe to.

Well soulbomb det can wipe the raid. Not killing orbs in p4 can wipe the raid. Sure, they are simple things, but so is Armageddon soaking...

[KaPe]

Well soulbomb det can wipe the raid. Not killing orbs in p4 can wipe the raid. Sure, they are simple things, but so is Armageddon soaking...

Armageddon is several soaks happening at once, all of them are lethal (except for hugely outgearing heroic) and there's no clear indicator of person who's supposed to do it. The number also increases with raid size. No comparison at all.

[Tehterokkar]

Well soulbomb det can wipe the raid. Not killing orbs in p4 can wipe the raid. Sure, they are simple things, but so is Armageddon soaking...

There is a huge difference in several people with no clear sign that they have to soak and 1 person getting yelled by a Boss mod/WA that they have to run away from the raid.

Not comparable at all.

[Gorsameth]

Its a mistake to compare Antorus to ToS. A comparison to NH makes more sense difficulty wise.

[ItsTiddles]

Armageddon is several soaks happening at once, all of them are lethal (except for hugely outgearing heroic) and there's no clear indicator of person who's supposed to do it. The number also increases with raid size. No comparison at all.

There is a huge difference in several people with no clear sign that they have to soak and 1 person getting yelled by a Boss mod/WA that they have to run away from the raid.

Not comparable at all.

If you're clearing final heroic boss week 1, then how much more of a sign outside of "I have no debuff" do you need???

[Millyraynge]

Mate, it's only Heroic...

even if you killed Helya and KJ on the first day as well in heroic, both of them were way harder than argus on heroic.

[Rotted]

Every heroic boss in Legion has been a joke except Gul'dan and Kil'jaeden, and both of them were killed by every half decent guild within 50 pulls. Heroic servers no purpose anymore other than farming ap and wf/tf. Could be as easy as LFR for all i care.

Tbh you're not wrong, I got RL friends into wow as tom b launched, we level'd (me on new a toon), without looms, built up a guild based on two servers (friends of mine on another server) and we had KJ down on hc within 20 attempts Id say, that was with one person having the kill prior.

That all being said, every day at launch fo ToS we had people bitching about difficulty, we've got it a bit easier now and people are up in arms about that.

[Deleted]

Every heroic boss in Legion has been a joke except Gul'dan and Kil'jaeden, and both of them were killed by every half decent guild within 50 pulls. Heroic servers no purpose anymore other than farming ap and wf/tf. Could be as easy as LFR for all i care.

You know, there are guilds who only do heroic and progress there?

[Taedae]

Degree of difficulty isn't the same for every person/every group. If your team found it too easy, do Mythic when it comes out. Some other groups may find Normal decent, but Heroic may be hard for them. That's why we have 4 difficulties available. Instead of complaining, play the higher difficulty and if that doesn't make you happy either, fine. It's not the end of the world. Play it if you like it or don't if you don't. It's nothing to complain about. Blizzard admitted they over tuned Tomb of Sargeras, especially Kil'Jaden, so it makes sense that Antorus would be "less difficult" in comparison.

[Achilles55]

So the raid isn't an over tuned pile of shit like ToS was at launch. I don't see the problem. Wiping 400+ times on a boss isn't fun.

[Jastall]

He seems very out of place. Kin'garoth, Coven, Aggremar, hell to an extent even Portal Keeper and Varimathras felt harder. The only things that can wipe you are someone being a dummy and interrupting the wrong thing in ph3, and DPS being bad in ph4. Apart from that, his mechanics are very simple and not very threatening. Ph1 and ph2 in particular are complete wastes of time, nothing in there can wipe a raid that could be able to reach the boss unless the person who gets soulbomb is a carry.

I don't think I've ever seen an easier endboss since modern-day Heroic was a thing. I'm not sure if even Xavius was harder. Helya, Gul'dan, KJ, Blackhand and Archimonde were definitely far harder.

I got to say it's disappointing. The fight's visuals are amazing but killing the expansion's final boss on Heroic in 3 pulls is just wrong and unsatisfying. I'm not asking for KJ+, but a fight as hard as Gul'dan or Archimonde were would have been perfect. The fact that it's not Mythic doesn't mean it has to be faceroll, nor does it mean the final boss should have so few actually relevant mechanics.

[Teroo]

This boss has been 1 of the biggest jokes ever in this expansion.

It shares the spot with Xavius for being way too easy and uninteresting, and makes KJ look like a brick wall.

If anything, it was about KJ that was horribly overtunned not other bosses being too easy thats one thing.
2nd one is HC Xavius was OK difficulty wise, it was mythic that was way too easy, so if HC Argus is about the same difficulty as Xavius its fine
You can complain if mythic one will be too easy.

[Reloe]

KJ heroic wasn't even overtuned, no idea what you guys are talking about. KJ heroic was totally fine and maybe even a little bit too easy for what an endboss should be like. Over a thousand guilds killed him first week, thats hard to call overtuned.

Archimonde was probably the hardest heroic endboss we had for a very long time and I liked it a lot. Many guilds couldn't split him or even guilds that killed M blackhand previously wouldn't get him down first week. only about 200guilds killed him first week.

In my opinion first week heroic clears should be around the same number as full Mythic clears previous content. So all guilds that cleared Mythic should get heroic done in the first week, definetly not more though, less is fine to some extent.

[Queen of Hamsters]

So you shouldn't have any problems clearing Mythic at a respectable rate then, right?