Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Huehuecoyotl]

Even if that's the case, talking to Russia about fighting ISIS is not collusion. The illegality will be in the lying, not in the actual contact.

If the contact with the Russians was so above board, how come every single person, at every single level, has been lying about it happening? If it was so innocent, why not just say that it happened?

It's almost as if they knew they were doing something illegal, isn't it?

[infinitemeridian]

Um, you literally linked a story about Flynn meeting with Russia, while not a government official, and lying about it to government officials. Specifically, about Russia changing their policy. In what world is this anything other than collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia? Because that's literally what you posted.

It's not collusion to talk to them about ISIS policy. Again, meeting with Russia is not indicative of anything. It matters who they met with and what was discussed. Discussing ISIS is not collusion.

Again, the issue is the lying, but Trump's administration is absolutely retarded in how they're handling this, so I'm not surprised they're shooting themselves in the foot there.

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If the contact with the Russians was so above board, how come every single person, at every single level, has been lying about it happening? If it was so innocent, why not just say that it happened?

It's almost as if they knew they were doing something illegal, isn't it?

Honestly, I doubt they know whether or not it's illegal or not - they're freaking out because they think that anything related to Russia is going to get them in hot water so they're making bad decisions based on that.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Honestly, I doubt they know whether or not it's illegal or not - they're freaking out because they think that anything related to Russia is going to get them in hot water so they're making bad decisions based on that.

That's your defence for them? That they are so incompetent they don't know whether what they did was illegal, so they risked doing something that they KNEW was illegal to try and cover it up? Just in case?

If this were true, that would be a good reason to lock them up anyway. For their own protection. They aren't safe to be allowed out without supervision.

[Breccia]

It's not collusion to talk to them about ISIS policy.

First of all, he wasn't NSA yet, so it was still illegal. And he lied about it. Since the word means "secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose" that's literally the definition of collusion.

Second of all, can't help but notice you handwaved the part about Russian sanctions. More specifically, Trump via Flynn telling Russia not to react to Russian sanctions.

Third of all, heh, how'd that work out? Still signed them, crying like a bitch, didn't he? Man, that never gets old.

Fourth of all, it does matter who they met with, they met with Russia, who -- say it with me -- everyone in Intelligence agrees attacked the election. That's a hostile foreign power, dude. And Flynn met with them. In secret. Lied about it. And apparently, did so by Trump's or Kushner's specific orders.

Sorry, Fresh Prince, there is no funky dance moves you can do to handwave this away. Not even the Charleston.

[Belize]

Not one...
Not two...
But THREE threads on the same topic.. KEK.
Only in r/MMOC-Pol

Cheers

I'll admit, you impress me!
I didn't think you could count that high! You learn so fast.

[infinitemeridian]

First of all, he wasn't NSA yet, so it was still illegal. And he lied about it. Since the word means "secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose" that's literally the definition of collusion.

Second of all, can't help but notice you handwaved the part about Russian sanctions. More specifically, Trump via Flynn telling Russia not to react to Russian sanctions.

Third of all, heh, how'd that work out? Still signed them, crying like a bitch, didn't he? Man, that never gets old.

Fourth of all, it does matter who they met with, they met with Russia, who -- say it with me -- everyone in Intelligence agrees attacked the election. That's a hostile foreign power, dude. And Flynn met with them. In secret. Lied about it. And apparently, did so by Trump's or Kushner's specific orders.

Sorry, Fresh Prince, there is no funky dance moves you can do to handwave this away. Not even the Charleston.

Discussing ISIS policy is not "Illegal or deceitful". I feel like a lot of you people are making calls on the legality of this based on nothing but hot air. To the average American, this doesn't make sense and seems like unnecessary and suffocating bureaucracy/red tape - What is the actual problem with an incoming administration discussing terrorism policy with a potential ally in that area?

The problem with this whole investigation is not enough time is spent trying to explain to people WHY these things that are being discussed are even bad - it's just a lot of hazy implications that nobody has the time to explain the actual negative implications of (if any).

Also, the sanctions are not what is being investigated according to the article - Flynn may have been fired for discussing those with Russia, but there is no indication of who ordered him to discuss those (if anybody did). All that is being investigated is who ordered him to discuss ISIS, which is not that big of a deal frankly.

Besides, it looks like it's going to be either Kushner or KT McFarland, not DT himself. This whole investigation seems to be more involved with Trump's sycophants and not Trump himself so far.

[Allybeboba]

It’s also what the point of the spiritual trip the drug was meant to invoke. They searched for hope, not for devastation. Also, white whale has nothing to do with Native Americans. Northwest US honored the orcha. While Inuits were the ones hunting Beluga, aka White Whale...

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Really? Than why did Trump have Flynn resign for lying about it? Why did Trump ask Comey to go easy on Flynn?

Both, Obama and Yates told Trump about Flynn and he still did nothing. If it results that Trump did instruct him to talk to Russia, you might understand why he didn’t “believe” them.

As is Moby Dick my friend.
Will Moby Dick ever be taken down? He has been hunted by Ahab for over a year now.
I am beginning to think it may be a fairy tail of epic proportions or maybe it is just people wanting personal vengeance.

Cheers

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And only like one guy trying to defend trump in each thread.

Cheers.

One would have you think there was a canal of “supporters” on MMOC. But the truth is out. That is why it has become r/MMOC-Pol echo chamber after all.

Cheers

Infracted - please stop going from thread to thread spamming it with nonconstructive responses

[Allybeboba]

I'll admit, you impress me!
I didn't think you could count that high! You learn so fast.

Whee! I’ll take personal attacks for $200 Alex.

Cheers

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Out of curiosity, what kind of prison do people like this get put into?

Probably one like a hotel that you aren’t allowed to leave.

[Sormine]

Discussing ISIS policy is not "Illegal or deceitful". I feel like a lot of you people are making calls on the legality of this based on nothing but hot air. To the average American, this doesn't make sense and seems like unnecessary and suffocating bureaucracy/red tape - What is the actual problem with an incoming administration discussing terrorism policy with a potential ally in that area?

The problem with this whole investigation is not enough time is spent trying to explain to people WHY these things that are being discussed are even bad - it's just a lot of hazy implications that nobody has the time to explain the actual negative implications of (if any).

Also, the sanctions are not what is being investigated according to the article - Flynn may have been fired for discussing those with Russia, but there is no indication of who ordered him to discuss those (if anybody did). All that is being investigated is who ordered him to discuss ISIS, which is not that big of a deal frankly.

Besides, it looks like it's going to be either Kushner or KT McFarland, not DT himself. This whole investigation seems to be more involved with Trump's sycophants and not Trump himself so far.

In your opinion, why is Flynn flipping and what kind of information does he have that would lead to prosecutors wanting to make a deal with him?

[Jtbrig7390]

Discussing ISIS policy is not "Illegal or deceitful". I feel like a lot of you people are making calls on the legality of this based on nothing but hot air. To the average American, this doesn't make sense and seems like unnecessary and suffocating bureaucracy/red tape - What is the actual problem with an incoming administration discussing terrorism policy with a potential ally in that area?

The problem with this whole investigation is not enough time is spent trying to explain to people WHY these things that are being discussed are even bad - it's just a lot of hazy implications that nobody has the time to explain the actual negative implications of (if any).

Also, the sanctions are not what is being investigated according to the article - Flynn may have been fired for discussing those with Russia, but there is no indication of who ordered him to discuss those (if anybody did). All that is being investigated is who ordered him to discuss ISIS, which is not that big of a deal frankly.

Besides, it looks like it's going to be either Kushner or KT McFarland, not DT himself. This whole investigation seems to be more involved with Trump's sycophants and not Trump himself so far.

Innocent man normally don't cut deals...

[Breccia]

Well, time to get jiggy.

Discussing ISIS policy is not "Illegal or deceitful".

*ahem*

Logan Act.

Also, if he was talking about ISIS and also sanctions, then it doesn't matter that they were talking about ISIS, does it? Telling Russia not to freak out about sanctions Obama was placing for attacking the election -- you can claim Russia didn't, but that's what Obama said when he placed them and Congress damn near 100% followed -- carries an implication about the future of those sanctions. Especially from the campaign that was directly helped by the attack.

Even if it's technically illegal

Whoa whoa whoa! Did you just Roy Moore this thread? "It's okay if it was illegal?" Is that why you changed "So I hit her with a trash can and ran like hell" to "So I handed her my wallet and ran like hell"?

Also, the sanctions are not what is being investigated according to the article

No, the sanctions being discussed are part of the plea deal. Flynn admitted he lied about three things. One of them was sanctions. You don't get to play ignorant just because it's 150 pages in. And you don't get to ignore them just because they're not in that one article that's the first one you found. Widen your horizons. Get your life flipped turned upside down once in a while.

Flynn may have been fired for discussing those with Russia, but there is no indication of who ordered him to discuss those (if anybody did).

You mean besides him saying it was a senior Trump campaign member? And everyone else saying "it was Kushner"? And besides you saying

it looks like it's going to be either Kushner or KT McFarland.

I looked for a limo and when it came near,
The license plate said 'Flynn' and it had cuffs in the mirror,
There he came outta court, looks like he had a big scare,
But I thought "Dude, he ain't going back to Bel-Air!"

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Innocent man normally don't cut deals...

Also, to make this clear, Flynn is guilty. He plead so himself.

[Belize]

Whee! I’ll take personal attacks for $200 Alex.

Cheers

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Probably one like a hotel that you aren’t allowed to leave.

Quote where I attacked you.

I'm not sure what bizzaro world you live in where praise and compliments are personal attacks.

[infinitemeridian]

Well, time to get jiggy.



*ahem*

Logan Act.

Also, if he was talking about ISIS and also sanctions, then it doesn't matter that they were talking about ISIS, does it? Telling Russia not to freak out about sanctions Obama was placing for attacking the election -- you can claim Russia didn't, but that's what Obama said when he placed them and Congress damn near 100% followed -- carries an implication about the future of those sanctions. Especially from the campaign that was directly helped by the attack.



Whoa whoa whoa! Did you just Roy Moore this thread? "It's okay if it was illegal?" Is that why you changed "So I hit her with a trash can and ran like hell" to "So I handed her my wallet and ran like hell"?



No, the sanctions being discussed are part of the plea deal. Flynn admitted he lied about three things. One of them was sanctions. You don't get to play ignorant just because it's 150 pages in. And you don't get to ignore them just because they're not in that one article that's the first one you found. Widen your horizons. Get your life flipped turned upside down once in a while.



You mean besides him saying it was a senior Trump campaign member? And everyone else saying "it was Kushner"? And besides you saying



I looked for a limo and when it came near,
The license plate said 'Flynn' and it had cuffs in the mirror,
There he came outta court, looks like he had a big scare,
But I thought "Dude, he ain't going back to Bel-Air!"

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Also, to make this clear, Flynn is guilty. He plead so himself.

The Logan Act is 200+ years old and def unconstitutional.

[Breccia]

The Logan Act is 200+ years old and def unconstitutional.

And, when you're on the Supreme Court, your word about what's unConstitutional will actually hold weight. Until then, guess what?



Technically, this fictional character has more weight on the subject than you do.

[Belize]

The Logan Act is 200+ years old and def unconstitutional.

Oh so now age is an excuse for something needing to be changed.

Great.

[Jtbrig7390]

The Logan Act is 200+ years old and def unconstitutional.

Gotta move that goal post don't ya buddy. Hes guilty he said so himself.

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Also, to make this clear, Flynn is guilty. He plead so himself.

100% correct

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And, when you're on the Supreme Court, your word about what's unConstitutional will actually hold weight. Until then, guess what?

Technically, this fictional character has more weight on the subject than you do.

Roflmao...

[Draco-Onis]

The Logan Act is 200+ years old and def unconstitutional.

If age is the standard then the entire constitution is null and void.

[Paranoid Android]

It can only be Jared!

[infinitemeridian]

If age is the standard then the entire constitution is null and void.

I mean, if he is found guilty of violating it, then he should be prosecuted it, but that doesn't mean the act itself shouldn't be re-evaluated.

It's outdated and needs to go.

[Jtbrig7390]

but that doesn't mean the act itself shouldn't be re-evaluated.
It's outdated and needs to go.

Does this also apply to the rest of the constitution or only parts you dislike?