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  1. #1

    Are the Alliance heading for a lot of inner conflict in BfA?

    Hear me out. So, the Horde are getting the Highmountain, Nightborne and Zandalari. Reletively speaking, these races actively want to join the Horde (although hard to say about the Zandalari right now). In leaked conversations, it appears the Nightborne feel a kinship with the Blood Elves and view them as good allies due to not only their help in Suramar but also for their shared Elven past, and for feeling outcast by Night Elves. Dialogue reads as if Thalyssra is very happy to join the Horde due to Blood Elf friendship. The Highmountain share an obvious connection with the Thunderbluff Tauren, and are almost one and the same. They actively want to unite with their kin. I am assuming the Zandalri wish to join the Horde because they need allies and there are other trolls in the Horde, so it's easy to find common ground.

    However, the Alliance... aside from the Lightforge which is an obvious ally - not only Draenei but Turalyon has fought with them for a thousand years, so they are already pretty much in the Alliance - the other races are very controversial for the Alliance as a whole. The majority of them join due to relation to a lore figure (Alleria and Moira), and not necessarily because the people want it. The Dark Iron have a dark history, with a lot of conflict with the Alliance (and others) and so I could imagine there will be a LOT of people within the Alliance who won't be happy with a Dark Iron alliance. Then there's the Void Elves... which surely has to cause issue in that they are beings of VOID in a very Light-centric Alliance. Not to mention they will be near the Lightforge... you can't say there won't be members in the Alliance rejecting Void beings working with them. Plus, with the leaked dialogue from 7.3.5 it seems the Void almost harmed the Sunwell, showing the danger of it just existing near Light potent power sources. How could Anduin and others endorse this easily?

    So, the point being, surely there should be some upcoming internal conflict within the Alliance with old enemies and 'dangerous' allies joining them, with Anduin's blessing. Perhaps there will finally be some story development around the Alliance and their values. That would seriously be welcome.

    (And yes, I am aware that the Zandalari will probably have an issue with being in a faction with Elves, but I think they would probably accept it if they could smash some enemy elves while getting aid in the process).
    Last edited by Zeraiya; 2017-12-01 at 10:19 AM.

  2. #2
    To have an issues will require some story telling, but in reality not really a lot of lore will be produced and nothing will happen.. they will maybe add a few more sub-races later (with also a thin lore) and that is about it - don't hope on some inside conflicts. I don't believe Blizzard can make some real story anymore.. (looking at all those wasted potentials before)

  3. #3
    The Dark Irons have been in the Alliance since Cata alongside Moira.
    The faction was split though. You probably convince the last part of the faction to join Ironforge, thus unlocking the race.

  4. #4
    I really hope so. I hate the unity storyline Blizzard did for Alliance in MoP.

  5. #5
    Blizzard will most likely overlook this, but i think it would be cool to see some inner tension, especially in the alliance.

    From what I've seen, Moira was set up to be treacherous and her Dark Irons seemed to be planning to take the city at any moment, but then they did a 180 with her in some scenario with Varian. I find it hard to believe that the race of dark irons, especially the survivors of the recent massacres on their city, would be happy to work with the killers.

    Everyone except the Dark Irons should have an issue with not only void elves, but former horde Blood Elves joining. If the Horde says no to the Void, you know you're doing something wrong by taking them in... and even enabling them... but nothing will come of this. Blizzard ignores logical outcomes that they don't care for.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Everyone except the Dark Irons should have an issue with not only void elves, but former horde Blood Elves joining. If the Horde says no to the Void, you know you're doing something wrong by taking them in... and even enabling them... but nothing will come of this. Blizzard ignores logical outcomes that they don't care for.
    Shit, I didn't even consider this - that they're Blood Elves that got turned Void. If the Horde says no to the Void, you know you're doing something wrong by taking them in... lol, true.

  7. #7
    I honestly would very much like it. I think Alliance has needed inner conflict and races who don't adhere to the well-oiled Stormwind machine for a while now.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Blizzard will most likely overlook this, but i think it would be cool to see some inner tension, especially in the alliance.

    From what I've seen, Moira was set up to be treacherous and her Dark Irons seemed to be planning to take the city at any moment, but then they did a 180 with her in some scenario with Varian. I find it hard to believe that the race of dark irons, especially the survivors of the recent massacres on their city, would be happy to work with the killers.

    Everyone except the Dark Irons should have an issue with not only void elves, but former horde Blood Elves joining. If the Horde says no to the Void, you know you're doing something wrong by taking them in... and even enabling them... but nothing will come of this. Blizzard ignores logical outcomes that they don't care for.
    There is a lot of potential for Worgen to relate really well with the Void Elves too, what with both of them being cursed races. Would certainly like to see them sitting at that table rather than with Stormwind and the Druids.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Would be a plan to just ditch the Night Elves completely, since they are hardly ever of any use.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    I hope so, look, the alliance is a faction with so much light influence, we´re a faction of lightuser, humans, dwarfs, even nightelves, gnomes, Worgen, Draenei, every Race of the Alliance is a People arroundet the light, within Darkiron and lightforged, only the Voidelves aren´t.

    And this could be a big theme for the future expension and the light and void-Story from the Alliance in a Addon after BFA is very important.

    Before Voidelves, we haven´t a Part of Void in the Alliance, not rly, now we can play together with the Horde-Peoples in a Addon arround light and Void-Stuff.



    Edith:

    And yes, the Voidelves are edgy, the full theme of this race go around void, darkness, quest of power is a big "Edge" packet. But the potential is high it´s bring difficult positions into the alliance, and in futured Addons.
    Last edited by mmocd8bd493a43; 2017-12-01 at 01:40 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    There is a lot of potential for Worgen to relate really well with the Void Elves too, what with both of them being cursed races. Would certainly like to see them sitting at that table rather than with Stormwind and the Druids.
    idk, they way Genn is atm, I can see them hating the Void Elves for being Blood Elves and apart of the Horde.

    And I really can't fathom how this group of Blood Elves would be so willing to join up with the Alliance after so much has happened, especially Jaina's massacre of their people.

    The Zandalari, the NightBorne and the Highmountain have so much history to pull from and work with. Is Blizzard just going to make another race that has no substance besides their racial leader? Forsaken and Night Elves for a long time were just Sylvanas and Tyrande with a bunch of nobodies and the lore revolved around them.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    idk, they way Genn is atm, I can see them hating the Void Elves for being Blood Elves and apart of the Horde.

    And I really can't fathom how this group of Blood Elves would be so willing to join up with the Alliance after so much has happened, especially Jaina's massacre of their people.
    Genn works on a lot of hatred, but I wouldn't say he's necessarily *that* prejudiced to lump the whole Void Elves in with Sylvanas due to their shared history, especially when they're on his side now and don't seem to like her much either. He seems to share a clubhouse with Alleria without much issue as well for the moment.

    And Void Elves joined the Alliance because they were exiled and literally have nowhere else to go. It looks like an alliance of convenience, but I imagine there will come a point where they become full-fledged loyal members like the Forsaken did for the Horde.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    Genn works on a lot of hatred, but I wouldn't say he's necessarily *that* prejudiced to lump the whole Void Elves in with Sylvanas due to their shared history, especially when they're on his side now and don't seem to like her much either. He seems to share a clubhouse with Alleria without much issue as well for the moment.

    And Void Elves joined the Alliance because they were exiled and literally have nowhere else to go. It looks like an alliance of convenience, but I imagine there will come a point where they become full-fledged loyal members like the Forsaken did for the Horde.
    Don't forget that Genn also attacked the Horde's fleet while everyone was on the same side. He prioritizes his grudges over the bigger picture and got almost the entire alliance forces in Stormheim killed. Alleria never through her hat in with the Horde and put the alliance before her people just like the High Elves did, so i wouldn't see them having a problem.
    I really hate how Genn is a huge driving force of the Worgen atm, they really have no identity beyond him.(When Worgen are showcased at all, it's always Genn just like how the Forsaken and Nightelves had no identity beyond their racial leaders)

    The Void Elves, exiled because they refused to stop messing with the void. It's a sound argument from Lor'Themar and BloodElves and the Void Elves should know better. If the Alliance is fine with that, it's whatever, but the Alliance just got a group of elves who chose the void over their own people, so trustworthy isnt strong there imo.
    Last edited by MikeBogina; 2017-12-02 at 01:49 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Don't forget that Genn also attacked the Horde's fleet while everyone was on the same side. He prioritizes his grudges over the bigger picture and got almost the entire alliance forces in Stormheim killed. Alleria never through her hat in with the Horde and put the alliance before her people just like the High Elves did, so i wouldn't see them having a problem.
    They are both staunch Alliance loyalists but have their own methods in showcasing that that leads to mixed results, I'll agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    I really hate how Genn is a huge driving force of the Worgen atm, they really have no identity beyond him.(When Worgen are showcased at all, it's always Genn just like how the Forsaken and Nightelves had no identity beyond their racial leaders)
    Well, I can agree that Blizzard does way too much with faction leaders being the face of their factions but I think Genn being a flawed character makes for a great reflection on the rest of the Worgen. Worgen should be like Forsaken in the sense that they are vengeful and Genn's desire for vengeance makes them closer to that. The devs once said they are supposed to be a sinister race with their own agenda and lack the purity of the Draenei, so I think doing more to have them relate with the Void Elves would help move them back in that direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    The Void Elves, exiled because they refused to stop messing with the void. It's a sound argument from Lor'Themar and BloodElves and the Void Elves should know better. If the Alliance is fine with that, it's whatever, but the Alliance just got a group of elves who chose the void over their own people, so trustworthy isnt strong there imo.
    I would imagine the majority of the Alliance don't fully trust the Void Elves and their practices. I personally think it would be interesting if them, Worgen, and Dark Iron Dwarves were the more shady/shadowy side of the Alliance, willing to do things other Alliance races aren't willing to do. Night Elves should be more ruthless as well, but I think they'd only ever be inclined to get along with Worgen due to the curse's history than the other two.

  14. #14
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I really hope so. I hate the unity storyline Blizzard did for Alliance in MoP.
    They're constituted by groups that have no major beef with one another.

    The Horde are way more disparate. The Trolls and Blood Elves have bad blood going back thousands of years, the Tauren have a deep respect for nature yet have to watch the goblins and forsaken constantly desecrate it, while their leadership has changed hands four times in very short order. Hell, one of their leaders basically lead an orc-superiority based purge of the horde not too long ago.

    So if the horde can keep their lids on with little miss edgy mcdarkness at the reigns, I'm sure the Alliance can too.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    They're constituted by groups that have no major beef with one another.

    The Horde are way more disparate. The Trolls and Blood Elves have bad blood going back thousands of years, the Tauren have a deep respect for nature yet have to watch the goblins and forsaken constantly desecrate it, while their leadership has changed hands four times in very short order. Hell, one of their leaders basically lead an orc-superiority based purge of the horde not too long ago.

    So if the horde can keep their lids on with little miss edgy mcdarkness at the reigns, I'm sure the Alliance can too.
    I feel like there should be some strife considering the humans left the draenei and night elves to fend for themselves against the Legion while the humans fucked off to pick fights with the Horde. Making it seem like a rather 1 sided alliance in favor of humans.

    And also because we're apparently abandoning the night elves, again, to the Horde while the humans pursue their interests in Lordaeron.

    Plenty of reasons for conflict there.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeraiya View Post
    Hear me out. So, the Horde are getting the Highmountain, Nightborne and Zandalari. Reletively speaking, these races actively want to join the Horde (although hard to say about the Zandalari right now). In leaked conversations, it appears the Nightborne feel a kinship with the Blood Elves and view them as good allies due to not only their help in Suramar but also for their shared Elven past, and for feeling outcast by Night Elves. Dialogue reads as if Thalyssra is very happy to join the Horde due to Blood Elf friendship. The Highmountain share an obvious connection with the Thunderbluff Tauren, and are almost one and the same. They actively want to unite with their kin. I am assuming the Zandalri wish to join the Horde because they need allies and there are other trolls in the Horde, so it's easy to find common ground.

    However, the Alliance... aside from the Lightforge which is an obvious ally - not only Draenei but Turalyon has fought with them for a thousand years, so they are already pretty much in the Alliance - the other races are very controversial for the Alliance as a whole. The majority of them join due to relation to a lore figure (Alleria and Moira), and not necessarily because the people want it. The Dark Iron have a dark history, with a lot of conflict with the Alliance (and others) and so I could imagine there will be a LOT of people within the Alliance who won't be happy with a Dark Iron alliance. Then there's the Void Elves... which surely has to cause issue in that they are beings of VOID in a very Light-centric Alliance. Not to mention they will be near the Lightforge... you can't say there won't be members in the Alliance rejecting Void beings working with them. Plus, with the leaked dialogue from 7.3.5 it seems the Void almost harmed the Sunwell, showing the danger of it just existing near Light potent power sources. How could Anduin and others endorse this easily?

    So, the point being, surely there should be some upcoming internal conflict within the Alliance with old enemies and 'dangerous' allies joining them, with Anduin's blessing. Perhaps there will finally be some story development around the Alliance and their values. That would seriously be welcome.

    (And yes, I am aware that the Zandalari will probably have an issue with being in a faction with Elves, but I think they would probably accept it if they could smash some enemy elves while getting aid in the process).
    The issue for posing conflict with Dark Iron Dwarves is that they've joined the Alliance in Cataclysm.
    Any internal conflict w/them is unneeded as we had 5.3 to prove their worth to us.

    The Void Elves are a.. very interesting pick to fight with, but the Alliance also allows Worgen, Warlocks, Demon Hunters, and Shadow Priests into it's door. Another "corrupt" race isn't going to cause too much conflict. Also, if able to, could you cite the leaked dialogue for the 7.3.5. sunwell harm?

  17. #17
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    not entirely true. Gilneas told the Alliance to piss off and sealed the doors,
    That was decades ago. That wasn't even technically the same alliance.

    the Dwarves have always been in fighting,
    Something they've since rectified in-game. The wildhammer dwarves made amends a long time ago. The dark iron dwarves were effectively enslaved by old gods.

    I mean you want to draw parallels? The Zandalari were trying to kill everyone like a year and a half ago.

    and the first encounter between night elves and humans resulted in several dead humans.
    That wasn't bad blood so much as a misunderstanding.

    no they don't. Jungle trolls had no contact with Quel'thalas, they are at opposite ends of the continent. The Amani are the ones with the beef and it manifested in a raid.
    Those were just the specific trolls on their doorstep.

    they pity the forsaken and as far as the goblins are concerned, they keep their pollution confined.
    That doesn't change that the forsaken desecrate land. As far as goblins... what do you mean "keep it contained?" They tore Azshara to shreds and mucked up a good chunk of lordaeron.

    and the High King concept is conform by another way. The end result is still the same. The Alliance are all light-worshipping assholes. The night elves were the exception, and now that they are basically homeless trash, I'm sure they'll adopt the saving grace of the filthy Light and become even worse than BfA has made them.
    Who cares if they worship the light?

    Sylvanas doesn't sound anything like Garrosh. It's almost as if she can curbstomp the spineless morons off the Alliance without alienated the rest of the Horde.
    Really? Sylvannas making a deal with eldritch powers beyond her understanding (Helya) in order to force coercion from others to further her own gains without a thought to the consequences doesn't sound anything like Garrosh?

    I guess, unlike Garrosh, the Horde didn't need the Alliance's help to crush that plan; Genn was able to handle that all by himself.


    As far as "curbstomping..." she's losing Lordaeron. She isn't "curbstomping" anything or anyone.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2017-12-02 at 03:54 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    The Dark Irons have been in the Alliance since Cata alongside Moira.
    The faction was split though. You probably convince the last part of the faction to join Ironforge, thus unlocking the race.
    Yeah and the three dwarven clans are about as friendly to eachother as azeroths elven nations

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    That was decades ago. That wasn't even technically the same alliance.



    Something they've since rectified in-game. The wildhammer dwarves made amends a long time ago. The dark iron dwarves were effectively enslaved by old gods.

    I mean you want to draw parallels? The Zandalari were trying to kill everyone like a year and a half ago.



    That wasn't bad blood so much as a misunderstanding.



    Those were just the specific trolls on their doorstep.



    That doesn't change that the forsaken desecrate land. As far as goblins... what do you mean "keep it contained?" They tore Azshara to shreds and mucked up a good chunk of lordaeron.



    Who cares if they worship the light?



    Really? Sylvannas making a deal with eldritch powers beyond her understanding (Helya) in order to force coercion from others to further her own gains without a thought to the consequences doesn't sound anything like Garrosh?

    I guess, unlike Garrosh, the Horde didn't need the Alliance's help to crush that plan; Genn was able to handle that all by himself.


    As far as "curbstomping..." she's losing Lordaeron. She isn't "curbstomping" anything or anyone.
    Except wiping out the night elves. Much to the delight of the elven nations

  19. #19
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Yeah and the three dwarven clans are about as friendly to eachother as azeroths elven nations

    - - - Updated - - -



    Except wiping out the night elves. Much to the delight of the elven nations
    They burned a tree. Big whoop.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    not entirely true. Gilneas told the Alliance to piss off and sealed the doors, the Dwarves have always been in fighting, and the first encounter between night elves and humans resulted in several dead humans.

    no they don't. Jungle trolls had no contact with Quel'thalas, they are at opposite ends of the continent. The Amani are the ones with the beef and it manifested in a raid.
    they pity the forsaken and as far as the goblins are concerned, they keep their pollution confined.
    and the High King concept is conform by another way. The end result is still the same. The Alliance are all light-worshipping assholes. The night elves were the exception, and now that they are basically homeless trash, I'm sure they'll adopt the saving grace of the filthy Light and become even worse than BfA has made them.

    Sylvanas doesn't sound anything like Garrosh. It's almost as if she can curbstomp the spineless morons off the Alliance without alienated the rest of the Horde.
    Tou forgot to mention what the alliance did to its former ally multiple times. Such a pity. Could of had nightborn and blood elves but self rightipus alliance bigotry always wins out

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    They burned a tree. Big whoop.
    The tree is far more significant than ruins and blighted water

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