Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[Eothedk]

I am happy Blizzard got rid of the "one moron can wipe the raid" mechanics. For the most part.

[Radaney]

Lei Shen was harder than Garrosh, Blackhand was harder than Archimonde, Ragnaros was harder than Madness of Deathwing... what's your point again?

I wiped more on Odyn heroic than on the full Antorus heroic so far. Pretty sure this has to do with everybody and their mother getting 935 loot from Mythic+ and world bosses before the raid opens.

Blackhand was not harder than Archimonde in any capacity. The other two are correct. Fair play to Lei Shen though, probably the best fight they have ever made.

[Shadowsgrace]

Then you have but 1 option, Move on to mythic.

[Spotnick]

Blackhand was not harder than Archimonde in any capacity. The other two are correct. Fair play to Lei Shen though, probably the best fight they have ever made.

In all honestly I had more wipes on Blackhand than Archimonde... let's say it's probably because we didn't have more than one boomkins which made phase 2 a lot harder than it had to be.

Now maybe my memory is blurred thinking about mythic.

I think it took my guild 3 lockouts to kill Blackhand and we got Archimonde on the 2nd one. Blackhand almost killed our guild due to how hard he was on the first weeks.

[Achilles55]

Except we don't get to go straight to mythic, because there's a week where the easier difficulties are available but mythic is not.

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If anybody wiped that many times on heroic KJ, that's pretty sad.

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He probably won't, no. Not that that has anything at all to do with this topic.

My bad I should have been more specific. I meant to say that I'm okay with Antorus being easier overall since ToS felt over tuned all across the board but the comment about 400+ pulls was specifically aimed at Mythic ToS. I completely understand your point about the lack of linear difficulty progression with regards to earlier bosses being harder than Argus.

[Spotnick]

My bad I should have been more specific. I meant to say that I'm okay with Antorus being easier overall since ToS felt over tuned all across the board but the comment about 400+ pulls was specifically aimed at Mythic ToS. I completely understand your point about the lack of linear difficulty progression with regards to earlier bosses being harder than Argus.

It's not ok to undertune a raid like that when it's the last raid of the expansion and you'll be stuck with it for the next 9 months.

Right now is the difficulty it should have been when everybody has pantheon trinkets and 4pc of tier..

Just imagine how faceroll it will be when people have their tier. Let's hope mythic is better tuned.

[Achilles55]

It's not ok to undertune a raid like that when it's the last raid of the expansion and you'll be stuck with it for the next 9 months.

Right now is the difficulty it should have been when everybody has pantheon trinkets and 4pc of tier..

Just imagine how faceroll it will be when people have their tier. Let's hope mythic is better tuned.

I see your point and you might be right but heroic becoming faceroll is pretty inevitable with how quickly you can over gear content now. Does it really make a difference if heroic Antorus is complete faceroll 2-3 months from now instead of 3-4? Either way we end up with 6+ months of no current content unless they add a Ruby Sanctum.

[Zylos]

Do it Mythic then.

Maybe if mythic was flexible...

people love to parrot this line. For many (most?) raiding guilds it's not that simple. God forbid people want challenging raids without requiring exactly 20 people.

[Dilemma90]

People were complaining thats raiding was too hard, and now it's too easy

I like the punishable mechanics. Really makes you step up your game.

Heroic Antorus was simple though.

Heroic ToS took us about 5 days of raiding to achieve AOTC and if we didn't do normal we'd have Antorus done in 2 nights, instead it took 3 with Argus just taking 4 attempts with 30 people

[Osmeric]

Total number of guilds that have downed H Argus: 753

In other words, the people who are complaining are mythic raiders.

This thread is utterly ridiculous.

[xcess]

H KJ was much harder if you couldnt push the phases fast enough to skip the shitty combos and also if you didnt have as many immunity classes. H Argus doesnt seem to favor any class too much ? It would be good if they could have a grace period for adds turning big, had some deaths from the add destroying melee.

[Deleted]

I think Archimonde was the harders heroic boss ever. I don't remember having any problem with Garrosh at all, we even have a dps tanking cause our tank internet die at it was the last day of the week to kill it. Btw I kill it on 10 man idk about 25m...

I forgot that Archimonde had a flawed flex scaling, where 20 man raids had really hard time, but 30 mans killed him easily. That's why Mythic raiders had harder time to take him down.

[gushDH]

Just like you said, it's heroic argus. That's not the end boss. The end boss is mythic argus.

[ONCHEhap]

He's supposed to be fought with 920-930 ilvl
Of course if you're rolling around with 20-30 ilvl above you're going to shred him

[Onikaroshi]

If they really want people to try mythic, they need to enable cross realm and allow flexible lockouts. Without those things it's just not remotely feasible for the vast majority.

Their design for mythic is that you have to have exactly 20 people. Pugging isn't possible unless you're on one of the very large realms (my realm had only 9 guilds kill a mythic boss), which means you keep a roster of greater than 20 people to deal with absences, and also means that the people at the end of your roster know they have a decent chance of sitting for most of the raid. Who the fuck wants to clear their schedule for a game then just sit on the sideline and not play? That's retarded.

So this then means you're guaranteed constant turnover at the end of your roster, putting pressure on your officers to constantly recruit replacements. Then there are inevitable lulls, like the start of summer when people stop showing up, you end up with 18 and you don't raid one week, suddenly the next week only 12 show up because they're annoyed at the lack of progress, bye bye guild.

Flexible lockouts and cross realm in mythic would mean that pugging becomes an option. You can always get 20 players and you never have to cancel a raid. You can even recruit pugs you like. It all happens naturally and life becomes much more bearable.

BUT OMG IT WILL RUIN THE REALM FIRST RACES!

I don't care.

ID based lockouts are so silly nowadays that we have loot based lockouts... everything just be loot based, top to bottom. Would make farming certain mounts easier too (looking at you handmaiden)

[Awsumpossum]

Yeah, Aggramar seems a lot harder as there is actual coordination required.

[Vladar]

This boss has been 1 of the biggest jokes ever in this expansion.

It shares the spot with Xavius for being way too easy and uninteresting, and makes KJ look like a brick wall.

First off, there are barely any mechanics. The only thing I had to do in our 2 split runs was run to an orb in P1 to get DPS increase, move from big mean cone with 2 second cast time. Dodge some very obvious lines in P2 every 10 seconds. P3 you had again some lines and had to interrupt 1 specific cast. Then P4 is just afk and nuke boss while switching to orbs every 30s or something and dodge small swirly circles.

Like there is NOTHING going on. It's literally a free kill for any guild as long as they can assign healing/raid CDs to key parts of the fight.

Even our Healers were asking if there was supposed to be some raid damage in p2, because they had nothing to do.

I remember Archimonde being a huge brickwall for even higher up Mythic guilds, but this boss is just a joke.

6 months ago: WAAAAAA KJ is TOO HARD WTF BLIZZARD!
Now: WAAAAA Argus is TOO EASY WTF BLIZZARD!

[ONCHEhap]

No he's really not.

He drops 945 gear.

If you're a theoretical "progression" heroic guild who takes 3 months to get there, your typical raider will have:

1. 2-3 item level 1000 legendaries.
2. A plethora of 945 ilvl drops from previous bosses, along with warforged/titanforged drops as well.
3. A lot of players with mythic plus loot, which is what, 960 from the weekly chest?

You're going to be 955 when you reach him. Easily.

Non-mythic bosses are usually tuned for players with 15 ilvl below what the raid drops in that difficulty

[ONCHEhap]

In the new world of dps hyperinflation and legendaries, that's way too low. As I said above, heroic raiders will easily be 955 ilvl by the time they reach him, many likely above 960. If he's tuned for 930 item level they might as well open up LFR to heroic.

The thing is that most bosses don't take that gear hyperinflation into account sadly,so yeah,everyone will be at 955 by the time they reach him,doesn't mean he's not tuned for lower ilvl.

The difficulty of the boss isn't to blame as much as Legion gearing and titanforging

[antelope591]

Was kind of expecting this considering ToS was one of the hardest raids of all time. There wasn't really anywhere to go but down from there difficulty wise.