Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[hulkgor]

The end boss of a raid should be the hardest boss of the raid, in that difficulty.

If that isn't the case, something went wrong, and this sure seems the case here.

[Onikaroshi]

The end boss of a raid should be the hardest boss of the raid, in that difficulty.

If that isn't the case, something went wrong, and this sure seems the case here.

Try doing it with a bunch of green parsers, then you'll realize the last phase isn't QUITE so easy lol

[Einsz]

Total number of guilds that have downed H Argus: 753

In other words, the people who are complaining are mythic raiders.

This thread is utterly ridiculous.

Doesnt take into account pugs that are facerolling heroic argus right now, I have had 5 socials in my guild pug it just today in a different pug groups.

[Deleted]

Mate, it's only Heroic...

It's the third out of four difficulties, heroic really should not be easy. Mythic is intended for the truly hardcore, not for those who merely seek a challenge.

[Onikaroshi]

In 2 months those green parsers will be 960 item level.

Yea, unfortunately they STILL won't be pulling the numbers the mythic guilds are NOW and it will still be a hard phase (some of the streams had people pulling 1.5-1.7 mil dps steady, my second (heroic) guild has like 3 people who can even break a mil steady)

It's frustrating, but they're good peeps socially

[Deleted]

Most of the guilds who run Heroic only are still not done clearing Normal - most of them wiped a lot at 3/11 and some struggled past it to land at 5/11 or 6/11 normal .. where they are now.. will probably take couple of more resets before these guilds move on to Heroic... Argus will be plenty hard for them.

[XDurionX]

Infinite Titanforging is extremely bad design.

They're giving up the Legiondaries but they'll die on the design hill of infinite Titanforging.

There is no such thing as "infinite titanforging", there has always been a cap, and to reach that cap had a vanishing low probability. People vastly OVERestimate wf/tf. For the average player, this will mke a difference of 1-2 ilvls overall. Yes you get a 30 ilvl proc sometimes, but this is so rare it doesn't matter in the grand scheme.

[Onikaroshi]

Most of the guilds who run Heroic only are still not done clearing Normal - most of them wiped a lot at 3/11 and some struggled past it to land at 5/11 or 6/11 normal .. where they are now.. will probably take couple of more resets before these guilds move on to Heroic... Argus will be plenty hard for them.

That's a fallacy. My heroic only, mostly green parse guild cleared it during our two three hour raid days. If a heroic guild is stuck at 3/11 or even 5 or 6, they're not trying very hard.

That's a normal guild that does heroic, not a heroic raiding guild.

[RaimaNd]

Heroic Raids are a joke. Kil Jaeden for example was way too easy too. And you're talking about split raids that mean you are in a very good mythic raid so your gear and skill is way too good for heroic mode too.

[Sithalos]

Raid bosses are easy on heroic. The sky is blue. Water is wet.

More at 11:00.

[Rafoel]

the problem with this line of thought is that not everyone has enough people to do mythic... If mythic was flex I'd agree with you, but for every group that can't field 20 people, heroic is the end game... It should be tuned more difficult than it is.

Exactly. We already have lfr for people who don't have time and don't want to make any effort. We have normal mode for friendly guilds and people who want have organized raiding without pressure. For all others, heroic should be a goal to hit. You aren't supposed to clear it in week 1.

[Deleted]

Heroic (normal) Garrosh was tough as nails.
Archimonde was a bit easier than that, but way harder than Argus.

If I recall correctly Siege started out as Normal and HC THEN Mythic was introduced later or am I wrong?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I agree H Antorus feels easier than H ToS or even H NH. We will see about mythic.

Unless mythic is tuned tougher, there will be a lot of guilds progressing farther and faster than we are used to, with many months till next xpac.

[Deleted]

This cannot be correct. Give me a second to get some stats to prove you wrong, but I'm just calling it right now.

Pick any server on Wowprogress - check out the guilds that have not cleared Normal yet. They're mostly around 6-7/11N at the moment. Check their t20 progress, they probably killed Heroic KJ in late September or October. These guilds have probably had 1 raid night so far - maybe two by now. It's going to take a while for them to get to Heroic Argus - they're not there yet. The difficulty of the raid is just fine.

[Cracked]

If I recall correctly Siege started out as Normal and HC THEN Mythic was introduced later or am I wrong?

It was (LFR, Flex, Normal, Heroic) later renamed to (LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic), the difficulty didn't change.

[Deleted]

It was (LFR, Flex, Normal, Heroic) later renamed to (LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic), the difficulty didn't change.

Didn't it? Mythic has a strict 20m requirement. HC came in 10m or 25m with each encounter varying in difficulty depending on the raid size. Some 10m fights were much tougher and less forgiving than 25m and vice versa. Mythic balanced that out and came later in the xpac so it was 'easier' on account of balanced raid tuning and better gear by the time it became live.

[Teroo]

It was (LFR, Flex, Normal, Heroic) later renamed to (LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic), the difficulty didn't change.

Yes it was that way, but the difficulty of Heroic and Mythic did change, because they had to tune the raid to the new raid sizes 10-30 man for Heroic and 20 man for Mythic both were 10/25 man before AND on top of that the stat squish happened at the same time.

[slime]

I'm talking normal here... but .... he was the only boss the RL decided to teach us during the fight and we one shot it. That did seem a tad easy.

[Deleted]

If I recall correctly Siege started out as Normal and HC THEN Mythic was introduced later or am I wrong?

What I ment to say was the second hardest difficulty at the time, which was normal and later heroic.

[oplawlz]

Mate, it's only Heroic...

Blizzard has set heroic up to be endgame for the vast majority of raid groups. It's reasonable to expect some challenge.