Guys, Battle For Azeroth isn't just "Horde vs Alliance"

[Shakou]

wrathion is not coming back in BFA, already confirmed.

Source or GTFO.

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We do this for 13 years. What changed?

No we didn't. We didn't even know Azeroth was a Titan until more recently.

Also Did you not see the huge sword sticking out of Silithus?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Duh.

People are simple-minded, they boil down every expansion to the bare essentials, often going by the title or box art.
Battle for Azeroth: Faction Wars will turn into Battle for Azeroth: Oh shit bigger fish to fry!!!.

[beanman12345]

I never said it was a fact that azshara was in the second raid. I actually went out of my way to not state it as fact. All I did was state what Ion quite obviously implied when he was talking about azshara as a boss in the second raid. Hell even Wowpedia says she's a boss in the second raid because of what ion implied with what he said. But I never once stated it was fact. Is English your 2nd language? Who the fuck get's pissed off over a thread about when a boss is gonna happen?

[Shakou]

I never said it was a fact that azshara was in the second raid. I actually went out of my way to not state it as fact. All I did was state what Ion quite obviously implied when he was talking about azshara as a boss in the second raid. Hell even Wowpedia says she's a boss in the second raid because of what ion implied with what he said. But I never once stated it was fact. Is English your 2nd language? Who the fuck get's pissed off over a thread about when a boss is gonna happen?

I'm not pissed over when this boss will happen.

I'm generally annoyed by people who post things like "COnfirmeemsfdjklafsdljked bosss is in the 2nd raid!"!" or anything that's remotely close to that AND DON'T SOURCE.

Learn proper internet etiquette. There is almost no where you can go on the internet and talk about these kind of things where you don't get flak for not posting sources.

Your source doesn't even say what you're saying.

So use correct words.

Instead of this (always keep receipts btw):

No, Ion pretty much said she's in the second raid. This could change though.

Try this:

You're right Ion did not say Queen Azshara is a boss in the 2nd raid, but what he did say made it seem very likely to me and others that she is.

Here is the full quote "Quote here"

And here is a link to the full video that came from *link here*

I mean like not trying to be a dick here, but the vast majority of people on the internet have their own opinions are interested in talking about that. And what people like you do is you literally KILL DISCUSSION. We literally don't care what you think and aren't losing sleep over it. We just don't want discussions being derailed by bs.

[Aeula]

Sadly.

I'm tired of big bads. They don't feel threatening enough to bother with and they're always one dimensional as characters.

[beanman12345]

I'm not pissed over when this boss will happen.

I'm generally annoyed by people who post things like "COnfirmeemsfdjklafsdljked bosss is in the 2nd raid!"!" And don't source.

Well I never did that, so Idk what the fuck your problem with me is.

[Shakou]

Well I never did that, so Idk what the fuck your problem with me is.

Dude you're glib. Hopelessly glib.

You posted this:

No, Ion pretty much said she's in the second raid. This could change though.

That's not far off from that and what followed your post pretty much is that.

Use correct terms and source everything, is that really so hard?

[Santti]

Should be obvious it's not just Alliance and Horde.

Think about raiding, for instance. They have always been about fighting something big and bad. While raids being completely about our factions could be somewhat interesting, I just don't see them happening in the environment that is this game.

The raids would have to feature, by necessity, arenas and abilities for the bosses that are entirely identical to the other faction. Just a palette swap, and voilà; a raid without any substance to it.

The other option for the raid is to make it about something mediocre, if there are no big baddies or faction fights. Like drunken Hozen ooking everyone in the dooker, or some murlocs doing murlocy shenanigans. Could be fun, also dumb as hell. Like, why the hell are we even here kind of dumb.

"See Kungen explaining why Mythic Mrgllllrgmrlm was the hardest boss of all time."

So yeah, it's not just about Horde and Alliance.

[beanman12345]

No this is false. This keeps getting repeated as fact, but I have been saying this for some time now because I was watching this live. it's like you guys live in an alternative dimension and got a different Blizzcon video that was poorly translated from English to your language or something.

People here and a few other places in the WOW community have this uncanny ability to mix up people's misquotations and speculation with what Blizzard actually states about things.

First off here is the related Blizzpost about this, they totally did not state what raid she would be in. It's baseless speculation 100% and nothing else that she is going to be in the 2nd raid and it's only baseless speculation but you all keep repeating it as if it's a fact. That's kind of why I made this thread. This is the no speculation zone.



Raid
-Uldir, Halls of Control
-8 bosses
-Titan quarantine facility
-Face off against the source of Zandalar's corruption
-shut down and sealed away for thousands of years, new spin on titan architecture
-slimy foes!
-Queen Azshara - future raid boss

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-blizzcon-2017

Here is the actual quote from Blizzcon mentioning Azshara:

"We’ll have more details about this first 8-boss raid dungeon at a later date.


And before we leave, you might want to keep your eyes out for Queen Azshara, too. The sea, after all, is her playground."

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FACTS MATTER STOP TREATING BASELESS SPECULATION LIKE IT IS FACT PEOPLE

Nothing in this post with source proved I was wrong.

Yeah I was right, this is nothing but a troll. Go ahead and "ignore me"ooooohhhhhh

[Shakou]

Nothing in this post with source proved I was wrong.

Yeah I was right, this is nothing but a troll. Go ahead and "ignore me"ooooohhhhhh

I'm trolling my own thread now?

Maybe you should read the terms of service of these forums while you're at it.

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Should be obvious it's not just Alliance and Horde.

Think about raiding, for instance. They have always been about fighting something big and bad. While raids being completely about our factions could be somewhat interesting, I just don't see them happening in the environment that is this game.

This is why there is going to be the new warfront system, to satisfy players that want more of the Alliance vs. Horde war, don't see raids focusing on that at all we just haven't had a lot of info about those yet.

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Should be obvious it's not just Alliance and Horde.

Think about raiding, for instance. They have always been about fighting something big and bad. While raids being completely about our factions could be somewhat interesting, I just don't see them happening in the environment that is this game.

This is why there is going to be the new warfront system, to satisfy players that want more of the Alliance vs. Horde war, don't see raids focusing on that at all we just haven't had a lot of info about those yet.

[Aggrophobic]

It is literally battling to save Azeroth herself.

The Alliance/Horde war is the backdrop for much more important things happening in the world, and ya the set up is sort of like MOP but it's not. Why? Because MOP was primarily motivated by a landgrab and the conflict started because of a mad power hungry Horde Warchief, and led to more stuff later on.

This isn't that. It's more like Wrathion's goal in MOP coming close to fruition.

Thats all great but they still haven't shown any real new content.
I mean, the most exiting part of Blizzcon was when they told us that they were removing things they added in Legion.

The horde and alliance have been fighting for decades. It's not really something you get exited about.

[beanman12345]

I'm trolling my own thread now?

Maybe you should read the terms of service of these forums while you're at it.

Nah just me cause in your words "i'm derailing the thread and your pissed off I'm preventing you from having intelligent conversations about the game." So I will just leave you to your thread, and you enjoy your "no shit" and "duh" responses because there isn't actually anything to discuss here, because we have little to no information available on what's actually gonna happen in BfA

[Nathasil]

How is is important if the plott changes later on? Here are some facts why many players (me included) don't give two shits if the plot turns to old gods later:

1) Alliance & Horde are still not allowed to play with each other. Since most of us are doing shit in this game WITH THEIR FRIENDS that still means you have to decide which faction to main. Unless you don't care about your characters at all - at which point you probably don't care about the lore either.

2) Horde gets ALL of the Legion additions to the game. Alliance gets reskins of one unpopular race (Dwarf), a reskin of one popular race (Draenei) that makes NO FUCKING SENSE as it's own race and is less impressive than the Update Orcs get (for free, at the Barber) and a reskiin of the most popular Horde Race that Blizzard litterally pulled out of the void. Alliance gets fucked so hard with the "Allied Races" that there is no recovery from that. Couple that up with (1) and it means most of us will have to play Horde because our freinds want to play Nightborne or Zandalari and not some shitty 2004 Dwarf reskin or what should have been a free cosmetic upgrade for Draenei Paladins.

3) Night Elves lose all of their home zones. You may not have noticed....but Nght Elf is a rather popular race in this game. Races without a home are not popular. So this change will make Night Elves far less popular, too. One more reason to switch to the Horde. After all, they get the new HD Night Elves.

Conclusion: It does no matter how the story turns out to be...Blizzard has made sure that playing Alliance will be the shit-option from the get-go. I'm very curious as to what they will say when Horde can play the new "PvP Shard System" without enemies for better rewards, as there simply will be no Alliance left. PvP Q-Times will go up to twi hours for Horde. I guess Blizzard will throw up their Hands in disbelief and say something along the lines "We are shocked to see the large shift to Horde! We did not expect this! Player behavious has been totally eratic and we are trying to find a solution now!"

many of us are pissed because the Alliance has already lost BFA before the story is even told. That's why players focus on this aspect of the expansion. And there is absolutely NOTHING Blizzard can do anymore to fix it short of scrapping the Allied-Races idea....which they won't do. So: good bye Alliance. It was fun while it lasted. Well...actually not, when i think about it.

[Mitobunny]

How is is important if the plott changes later on? Here are some facts why many players (me included) don't give two shits if the plot turns to old gods later:

1) Alliance & Horde are still not allowed to play with each other. Since most of us are doing shit in this game WITH THEIR FRIENDS that still means you have to decide which faction to main. Unless you don't care about your characters at all - at which point you probably don't care about the lore either.

2) Horde gets ALL of the Legion additions to the game. Alliance gets reskins of one unpopular race (Dwarf), a reskin of one popular race (Draenei) that makes NO FUCKING SENSE as it's own race and is less impressive than the Update Orcs get (for free, at the Barber) and a reskiin of the most popular Horde Race that Blizzard litterally pulled out of the void. Alliance gets fucked so hard with the "Allied Races" that there is no recovery from that. Couple that up with (1) and it means most of us will have to play Horde because our freinds want to play Nightborne or Zandalari and not some shitty 2004 Dwarf reskin or what should have been a free cosmetic upgrade for Draenei Paladins.

3) Night Elves lose all of their home zones. You may not have noticed....but Nght Elf is a rather popular race in this game. Races without a home are not popular. So this change will make Night Elves far less popular, too. One more reason to switch to the Horde. After all, they get the new HD Night Elves.

Conclusion: It does no matter how the story turns out to be...Blizzard has made sure that playing Alliance will be the shit-option from the get-go. I'm very curious as to what they will say when Horde can play the new "PvP Shard System" without enemies for better rewards, as there simply will be no Alliance left. PvP Q-Times will go up to twi hours for Horde. I guess Blizzard will throw up their Hands in disbelief and say something along the lines "We are shocked to see the large shift to Horde! We did not expect this! Player behavious has been totally eratic and we are trying to find a solution now!"

many of us are pissed because the Alliance has already lost BFA before the story is even told. That's why players focus on this aspect of the expansion. And there is absolutely NOTHING Blizzard can do anymore to fix it short of scrapping the Allied-Races idea....which they won't do. So: good bye Alliance. It was fun while it lasted. Well...actually not, when i think about it.

1) Yea it's kind of weird considering other instanced content, but it's a defining trait of the game since launch; you sort of know what you're getting into.

2) Highmountain Tauren are Antler Taurens with better forms and totems. I'll give you that, Zandalari trolls are pretty cool but not a lot of people like playing an "ugly" race, which is why Horde got Blood Elves to begin with. Nightfallen are basically your Void Elves, it's just swapping Night Elves and Blood Elves.

Orc update isn't a Horde thing, it's more related to the fact that hunched orcs are usually Peons. (No really, go look at Warcraft 3 Orcs and you'll see most of them don't have hunches)

3) Undeads lose their home too, and they're a popular race too. Lordaeron has a lot of lore for most Undead characters pre-cata too. Likewise, it's painting our Warchief into an illogical nut who's a horrible tactician (burning random location down, losing a main city? Damn that's pretty bad)

Not sure what you're talking about with Alliance since a lot of Horde players aren't really happy with the shamble of a faction we've become. On top of that, you totally left out the whole humans and blood elves being the most played races... You're getting a glowing version of a Blood Elf, that's going to have people flock to the Alliance. At least your leader isn't demanding you serve and quoting the Lich King.

Conclusion: Grass is always greener.

Regarding OP: I think a lot of this while throwing Classic in the mix is their attempt to bring it to the plots originally established with Vanilla (and subsequently Cata as well). There's a lot of those stories that just got left in the dust to basically finishing off Warcraft 2/3 (BC, WotLK, Cata, and Legion). Something that's a little lost on people is that originally the faction war was one of those stories also left in the dust, so if anything we're just continuing where it all left off after BC.

[Exilian]

NO this is the full quote:

"Now following [Uldir], and I'm going to say even less about this raid, it might have occurred to you when Alex was up here earlier talking about the dark threats from the sea plaguing Kul Tiras,... we know a couple dark threats from the sea.... some we have heard a lot from in Legion... you know, some Tidestone related stuff. And before all is said and done in Battle for Azeroth, we'll be facing off against Queen Azshara. Lots more story to tell on that front."

What you should do is provide a source if you want to be taken seriously. I have seen people talking about this, and actually never quoting it verbatim and never sourcing it.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/news=276095/b...azeroths-raids

I quote source material and you argue with source material. Unbelievable. No we do not know what raid this is. It is baseless speculation that this was the 2nd raid (as in 2nd part of tier 1 BFA) that was being discussed. Not stated at all.

Mate trust me, no one would want Azshara to be a big important character more than me, I've been a fan of the Naga ever since I got to play a few missions with them back in WC3. But judging solely from Ion's speech, what could he have meant other than that she will be in the next raid/tier/patch?

"Now this is the first raid [talking about Uldir]. This is the Highmaul, this is the Emerald Nightmare of this expansion. Now following this - and I'm going to say even less about this raid -" PAUSE: see how he says this RAID? Its obvious that what he's about to talk about next is a RAID, and will be done in the context of a RAID.

CONTINUE: "...it might have occurred to you when Alex was up here earlier talking about the dark threats from the sea plaguing Kul'Tiras. Well, we know a couple of dark threats from the sea, don't we? There are some that we have heard a lot from in Legion, you know, some Tidestone-related stuff... and, so, yes, before all is said and done in Battle for Azeorth, we'll be facing off against Queen Azshara. So, lots more story to tell on that front."

What else could this statement POSSIBLY mean other than Azshara getting her own patch, somewhere in the middle (after Uldir) with probably Nazjatar as the new zone? And what could it POSSIBLY mean other than us killing her in a raid which the (presumed) Nazjatar patch culminates in?

I would love to be wrong. I would love it if we got not 1, but 2, or even 3 patches in a row dealing solely with Azshara and N'zoth. Hell, I would've loved it if the entire expansion was based just around them, leveling zones, box art, cinematic and all. My favourite fanfic ever was the notorious Dark Below, because honestly there's nothing cooler than an expansion taking you both underwater AND underground. Surface life is so last week...

But let's be real here, that isn't what's happening in BfA. Blizzard have most likely decided they want to get rid of Azshara, yet due to the mixed feelings Vashj'ir got, they are too afraid to give her a full expansion, so they're essentially Ulduar-ing here [i.e. giving a lorewise extremely important character a fairly irrelevant filler patch function, to break up the scenery a bit, like they did with Yogg'Saron in WOTLK]. Sad, yes. Disappointing, yes. A waste of potential, yes. But, regrettably, it is also the most likely course of action they will take based on Ion's pitch.

[Shakou]

Mate trust me, no one would want Azshara to be a big important character more than me, I've been a fan of the Naga ever since I got to play a few missions with them back in WC3. But judging solely from Ion's speech, what could he have meant other than that she will be in the next raid/tier/patch?

"Now this is the first raid [talking about Uldir]. This is the Highmaul, this is the Emerald Nightmare of this expansion. Now following this - and I'm going to say even less about this raid -" PAUSE: see how he says this RAID? Its obvious that what he's about to talk about next is a RAID, and will be done in the context of a RAID.

CONTINUE: "...it might have occurred to you when Alex was up here earlier talking about the dark threats from the sea plaguing Kul'Tiras. Well, we know a couple of dark threats from the sea, don't we? There are some that we have heard a lot from in Legion, you know, some Tidestone-related stuff... and, so, yes, before all is said and done in Battle for Azeorth, we'll be facing off against Queen Azshara. So, lots more story to tell on that front."

What else could this statement POSSIBLY mean other than Azshara getting her own patch, somewhere in the middle (after Uldir) with probably Nazjatar as the new zone? And what could it POSSIBLY mean other than us killing her in a raid which the (presumed) Nazjatar patch culminates in?

I would love to be wrong. I would love it if we got not 1, but 2, or even 3 patches in a row dealing solely with Azshara and N'zoth. Hell, I would've loved it if the entire expansion was based just around them, leveling zones, box art, cinematic and all. My favourite fanfic ever was the notorious Dark Below, because honestly there's nothing cooler than an expansion taking you both underwater AND underground. Surface life is so last week...

But let's be real here, that isn't what's happening in BfA. Blizzard have most likely decided they want to get rid of Azshara, yet due to the mixed feelings Vashj'ir got, they are too afraid to give her a full expansion, so they're essentially Ulduar-ing here [i.e. giving a lorewise extremely important character a fairly irrelevant filler patch function, to break up the scenery a bit, like they did with Yogg'Saron in WOTLK]. Sad, yes. Disappointing, yes. A waste of potential, yes. But, regrettably, it is also the most likely course of action they will take based on Ion's pitch.

Look I am not even saying one way or another how I would want Azshara to be treated in game, I am simply not interpreting what Ion said because he said what he said, not people's interpretation of it. If you can find some other source where he fully confirmed this fine. But I would just appreciate more discussion about what is rather than what people think it is.

I mean we have a guy in here now saying Wrathion isn't even coming back at all and that it was confirmed. First I heard of it and cannot find any source stating that. He was removed in a build from the Alliance Embassy but that's not a confirmation that he isn't appearing at all in the expansion.

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Regarding OP: I think a lot of this while throwing Classic in the mix is their attempt to bring it to the plots originally established with Vanilla (and subsequently Cata as well). There's a lot of those stories that just got left in the dust to basically finishing off Warcraft 2/3 (BC, WotLK, Cata, and Legion). Something that's a little lost on people is that originally the faction war was one of those stories also left in the dust, so if anything we're just continuing where it all left off after BC.

Actually this is a really good point. I personally had felt that they brought the faction war story back enough in Cata and MOP, so was a welcome departure to see it not the focus of WOD and Legion.

I have nothing against Alliance versus Horde being brought back to the forefront, I welcome it. But this is totally not going to be a WC4 type of deal, the war is the setting for a much larger story and as you said threads that took a backseat are getting picked back up now.

[Exilian]

Look I am not even saying one way or another how I would want Azshara to be treated in game, I am simply not interpreting what Ion said because he said what he said, not people's interpretation of it. If you can find some other source where he fully confirmed this fine. But I would just appreciate more discussion about what is rather than what people think it is.

I mean we have a guy in here now saying Wrathion isn't even coming back at all and that it was confirmed. First I heard of it and cannot find any source stating that. He was removed in a build from the Alliance Embassy but that's not a confirmation that he isn't appearing at all in the expansion.

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Actually this is a really good point. I personally had felt that they brought the faction war story back enough in Cata and MOP, so was a welcome departure to see it not the focus of WOD and Legion.

I have nothing against Alliance versus Horde being brought back to the forefront, I welcome it. But this is totally not going to be a WC4 type of deal, the war is the setting for a much larger story and as you said threads that took a backseat are getting picked back up now.

So then offer your interpretation of his speech. I've offered mine, and altough I don't like it, I think it's the most plausibly realistic one.

[Magnagarde]

Faction conflict is what sells this expansion. Many have gotten tired of constantly defeating some universal big bad while banding together with the other faction.