Republican Tax Plan Revealed

[breadisfunny]

what about those who didn't vote for trump in red states? also wisconsin in some offices DOES NOT have any democrats running for office. just republicans.

[Theodarzna]

A Historic Tax Heist
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/0...m.facebook.com


@Theodarzna you may find this interesting, as someone who was hoping Trump would be a middle finger to the "elites"...

Looks like the "elites" just showed a bigger middle finger back:



And the funny thing is, that the coastal elites will be the ones that are the most enriched. Most of the capital that will be growing will be in Silicon Valley, since the largest tax cuts were for large corporations.

Google, MS, Apple, are all really happy... as are their workers who usually make 6 figures. The red states will further decline... but this is what the rust belt voted for...

He is a middle Finger to specific elites, mainly the TPP supporters. After that he has served whatever purpose I had hoped for him. Plus so far he has proven at least SLIGHTLY resistant to the calls for war against various Middle Eastern powers.

His corruption to business interests is obvious.

However I should also state that is how his voters saw him.

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I'm almost certain that @Theodarzna 's idea of 'elites' is just SJW's or something, and not actual elites.

Lol, I am sure your idea of Elites is just the Koch Brothers or whatever it is Liberals don't like right now. :3

[Garnier Fructis]

Lol, I am sure your idea of Elites is just the Koch Brothers or whatever it is Liberals don't like right now. :3

It's not, actually, because I have some intellectual integrity.

On another note, I'm having trouble understanding your motivations here. You were against the TPP, ostensibly because it fucks workers and the people or something. Why is it then that you're basically not caring about how much Trump and Reps are working to fuck workers and the people now?

The only thing I can think of is that you have some ideological beef with TPP, and that you don't actually care about people at all.

[tyrlaan]

"Hating America" is your conclusion, not the truth of it. Because it is entirely possible to like something while still pointing out its flaws. The "my country, good or bad" attitude is just an intellectually lazy way of plastering over injustices and problem.

Oh no, no no. You cannot criticize Murica if you are a Real American. You must love your nation and all its warts, which of course it has none of because Murica is the best nation in the world, nay, the GALAXY!

[Zan15]

Well, with the Senate plan, im set to save almost 2700, so........cool

Still got 7 months of GI bill left, and my employer will pay for my masters anyway.

nana nana boo boo, stick your head in doo doo.

Okay, im still coming out ahead.

wait, how on earth are you still coming out ahead?

you will save 2700 bucks, then be taxed on the cost of your employer paying for your masters? i mean are you going to cheap clown school?

i would love to see the math on that.

[Ivanstone]

(Comcast is owned by NBC, of Rachel Maddow fame) to control what the country sees online, and start banning alt-right sites or anything else they don't agree with, as hate sites/hate speech.

Comcast owns NBC not the other way around. This is why I always thought the idea that there was no such a thing as a Liberal MSM. Moderate conservatives own some of the media, far right conservatives own most of the rest.

[Zan15]

Entitlement reform has to happen. I'm sorry, but this is seriously screwed up.


And this is even worse.



We have to spend money on lots of things other than Healthcare and Boomer's retirements. We have to spend on infrastructure, on education, on climate change mitigation, on science and technology, and yes, we have to spend on defense, as the lead provided by our 1980s investments is wearing thing. This is true not just of this administration, but the next five. We have enormous bills to pay on things that have nothing to do with Grandma and Her Pills or the Poor. Government cannot be principally about subsidizing those two, which right now, they are.

We need to cut the big three by half and redirect revenues into closing the deficit and into discretionary spending over the next 10 years.

But even absent healthcare reform, the age of healthcare growing as a share of government spending must end, now.



.

i am confused you want to cut medicare and social security, which is taxed and funded directly......and move that money to other places?? Even though that money is spent on the economy the SAME exact way infrastructure, education, defense, etc etc is spent. A healthy society is a more productive society

spending 1 dollar on the military has the same net result as spending 1 dollar on a hospital bill.



are you calling medicare and social security the entitlements you want to cut even though they are funded separate from everything else on the list??

i would imagine after paying into a system for 30-40-50 years you are kind of entitled to the benefits you paid for.


what about most Veterans' Administration programs? federal employee and military retirement plans? unemployment compensation? food stamps? agricultural price support programs? etc etc??


the only way, after 40 years of healthcare growth, you are going to stop its share from going up is to control prices through law.

otherwise if you limit spending, people will have no money left to pay taxes or they will die because they have no money left to pay for healthcare. either way you will not be collecting them taxes.

[NYC17]

wait, how on earth are you still coming out ahead?

you will save 2700 bucks, then be taxed on the cost of your employer paying for your masters? i mean are you going to cheap clown school?

i would love to see the math on that.

The posts you quoted from him are a perfect example of why we're in this mess. Seriously, I hope people read it and seriously consider that a supposedly functional adult wrote it.

[Theodarzna]

Ok, well, as far as I can see, with this tax bill, the thing that a lot of people were upset by, the rich controlling everything, etc, is just going to get worse.

I guess the contention was then, controlled by the rich in the US, or rich in the EU... I guess people are ok with our oligarchs controlling their lives... and that's fine...

But this does just speed up the tech sector and STEM jobs... along with automation. None of those things are going to help the people that I thought most Trump supporters cared about... the poor/underemployed, etc, in middle America.

I guess I am just confused... I thought all this time the issue was too much elites controlling the government and people's lives, this just makes that worse. Which... works in my favor. As net neutrality is repealed, I can't wait for the corporate liberal media in America, (Comcast is owned by NBC, of Rachel Maddow fame) to control what the country sees online, and start banning alt-right sites or anything else they don't agree with, as hate sites/hate speech.

There once was a place called Twitter. Where all the far lefties were bitter. Plagued with dirty wee THOTS And dank Russian bots. And now it's gone down the shitter. Trump's voters care about Trumps voters, specifically their values, towns and communities. One has a difficult time arguing they have their interests at heart when one both avoids those areas and actively talks derisively of them and even talks of getting rid of them or hoping to be rid of them. The issue is you too represented and voted for an oligarchy, it was just one that wears black turtleneck sweaters and makes new more expensive phones.

The issue is that IMHO, both that no good choices existed, or at least none that could be trusted, but one choice that was at leas the enemy of ones enemy.

Who would you trust if everything that has ever backstabbed you or reviled you was backing one candidate and vociferously against the other?

[Garnier Fructis]

The issue is that IMHO, both that no good choices existed, or at least none that could be trusted, but one choice that was at leas the enemy of ones enemy.

Who would you trust if everything that has ever backstabbed you or reviled you was backing one candidate and vociferously against the other?

Except the side they voted for actually writes policy that fucks them, whereas the 'enemy of one's enemy' has policies that help them. See the big one: healthcare. Also the fact that the 'enemy of one's enemy' proposed policies to retrain them for jobs that aren't going away.

But go ahead and keep pushing a false equivalence while pretending like you care about people.

[Theodarzna]

I don’t disagree, but at least my side cares about bringing everyone along, even if to some that’s begrudgingly. Are we perfect? No. But that’s more then you can say to the right.

Does it? I mean how can that be certainly said?

More over it makes that contingent on many strings attached, so it isn't exactly "We care just so much more."

After all, I recall your previous statements that went something to the effect "Those dumb hillbilly's care more about God, Abortion and Gay Marriage than they care about these awesome social programs! How could they! Fuck them!"..... you expect them to surrender their values for what amounts to a bribe. More over, your will to do "bring people along" is effectively contingent on those sacrifices on their part.

And let us not even get into the problematic paternalism invested in that.

[Stormspellz]

There once was a place called Twitter. Where all the far lefties were bitter. Plagued with dirty wee THOTS And dank Russian bots. And now it's gone down the shitter. Trump's voters care about Trumps voters, specifically their values, towns and communities. One has a difficult time arguing they have their interests at heart when one both avoids those areas and actively talks derisively of them and even talks of getting rid of them or hoping to be rid of them. The issue is you too represented and voted for an oligarchy, it was just one that wears black turtleneck sweaters and makes new more expensive phones.

The issue is that IMHO, both that no good choices existed, or at least none that could be trusted, but one choice that was at leas the enemy of ones enemy.

Who would you trust if everything that has ever backstabbed you or reviled you was backing one candidate and vociferously against the other?

simply wrong, both side to push an oligarchy, and the fact saying democrats want to make rural place "disappear" is wrong, nor does championing job training people who are in a dying industry relate that in any way.

One party wants to reign in wall street gambling, and one screams "regulation bad!"

Your rhetoric once again falls apart by simple legislative history review.

[Mormolyce]

It's astonishing to watch this kind of political nihilism in real time. Like they honestly don't think there's going to be a tomorrow.

Having passed this, they've handed the Democrats an enormous crate of ammunition to use against them in 2018, and the only people they've placated is their donors. Donors won't save them from the incoming shitstorm.

Also I've heard speculation that one element to their desperation was that they needed this signed because that's realistically the last thing they're going to accomplish while in power. Because now that this is done they don't really need Trump anymore and they can... deal with that.

[Thepersona]

simply wrong, both side to push an oligarchy, and the fact saying democrats want to make rural place "disappear" is wrong, nor does championing job training people who are in a dying industry relate that in any way.

One party wants to reign in wall street gambling, and one screams "regulation bad!"

Your rhetoric once again falls apart by simple legislative history review.

Being intelectually dishonest is part of the poster modus operandi. that and engaging on false equivalencies

[Theodarzna]

I think thats a given. If the group is helping you, you expect some modernizing. Just like the right expects them to be “self made millionaires. One actively helps, the other expects you to do it on all your own.

Okay, would you sacrifice Gay Rights, all of it, for Free Health Care, a full commitment to fighting Climate Change and College Debt Forgiveness and Elon Musk dictating science and tech policy?

[cubby]

It's astonishing to watch this kind of political nihilism in real time. Like they honestly don't think there's going to be a tomorrow.

Having passed this, they've handed the Democrats an enormous crate of ammunition to use against them in 2018, and the only people they've placated is their donors. Donors won't save them from the incoming shitstorm.

Also I've heard speculation that one element to their desperation was that they needed this signed because that's realistically the last thing they're going to accomplish while in power. Because now that this is done they don't really need Trump anymore and they can... deal with that.

Agreed. What bothers me is that many of these idiots have a clear path to "well, I was waiting for the investigation to resolve before I judged him" when it comes to speaking out against Trump. Most/all of them can now turn their backs and mostly get away clean.

Except those caught up in the campaign money laundering of course. THAT should be fucking interesting. RICO's a bitch.

[Thepersona]

Okay, would you sacrifice Gay Rights, all of it, for Free Health Care, a full commitment to fighting Climate Change and College Debt Forgiveness and Elon Musk dictating science and tech policy?

this shit doesnt even make sense. why the fuck would you sacrifice that? in what leftist society (modern one) that is even possible?

[Theodarzna]

No; and that’s my other point I made earlier. We should let them be, and let them live as they wish.

If you don't value those issues enough to sacrifice your most cherished values, why would they?

Also help isn't help if you are expecting something in return. That is much like a "Nice Guy" who "Helps" a girl but really there is an expectation of sexual reciprocation.

[Thepersona]

If you don't value those issues enough to sacrifice your most cherished values, why would they?

Also help isn't help if you are expecting something in return. That is much like a "Nice Guy" who "Helps" a girl but really there is an expectation of sexual reciprocation.

Again, this doesnt make sense. you wouldnt sacrifice any social advancement for economic ones. They arent even comparable. You can argue that, for gorvernment funded education, government healthcare (or single payer) you need to have a different tax plan, and eliminate the deductions. Not making gays (or lesbians, or whatever) unable to marry. Stop with the false equivalencies.

[Blur4stuff]

I don't think gays getting married or being able to visit each other in the hospital increases the national debt by 1.4 trillion.

but maybe someone could do the math real quick