Ahead of the Curve: Molten Core?

[pateuvasiliu]

People wiped on Vaelastrazs because of several reasons. First of all the concepts of aggro where not as well documentated as they are today. It's like I give you a random DPS class, give you no numbers on how much damage each skill does and you try to perform at being a damage dealer. It was a hilarious time.

You also wiped on Vaelastrazs because you simple needed the right setup if you didn't outgear the fight. You got just four priests? See ya next week. You have six priests but in the first four bombs there are two priests (~ 20%)? You wipe. Somebody pulled aggro because aggro was not documentaed? You wipe. Your best DPS get the bomb? You wipe. It got easier when you outgeared the encounter but with a combination of MC/ZG/Blue-gear? Good luck!

Flamegore had this marvelous debuff which randomly didn't fall of the tank even with max. I think you can guess what happened then. You wipe

Did you even raid back then? If yes I'd love to see your armory.

With fire resist and two greater fire protection pots you shouldn't need much healing on Vael.

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Vaelastrazs was easier than a modern day LFR boss. People struggled because of threat issues and the fact that it was hard to have 4 or 5 tanks use their brains. And if Flamegor was a cockblock, your raid team was just incompetent.

Again, people need to get it through their thick skulls - in terms of difficulty, Vanilla raiding is an absolute joke compared to today. LFR Kil'Jaeden is harder than any boss in MC or BWL

Mechanically, sure. Here's the thing, though. Mechanic difficulty doesn't mean shit because anyone can watch a Tankspot guide and follow the script when the boss does the same spells it always does.

Gearing and focusing 40 people is far more difficult than learning the few movements you need to do in your fancy Legion raids.

[hulkgor]

Dudes, so many people claiming that there are people that want bugs in the game... where the hell did that come from?

No one wants bugs. Bugs aren't gameplay choices. Bugs aren't features. Bugs aren't implemented. Vanilla had bugs, sure, most were squashed, some took longer than others, some were very impactful, so? Hell, Legion had fucking bugs. Entire raid bosses got unkillable due to bugs like when 7.2 released and Nighthold broke entirely on the first days.

BUGS HAPPEN, BUGS ARE FIXED. Bugs aren't a vanilla feature, holy fuck what's wrong with you dudes.

No one wants or likes bugs, stop repeating that nonsense like it's the truth.

[Morbownz]

BUGS HAPPEN, BUGS ARE FIXED. Bugs aren't a vanilla feature, holy fuck what's wrong with you dudes.

Some people wanna blink and fall through the world............................... Not me though.

[Tholl]

I wonder if Blizzard will even enable addons for Classic servers? Would THAT be a hell of a twist? Vanilla interface only. No Armory, no addons, no DBM, no DPS meters.

"MORE DOTS! OK! EVERYONE MOVE TO THE CENTER! MANY WHELPS, HANDLE IT!"

Honestly, zero addons would be AMAZING.

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I'd like to talk to and slap in the face anyone who truly thinks bugs should be left in the game.

Oh how I loved the stealth bug that lasted up until BC.

You popped vanish? Sorry, you are out of stealth now.

Popped vanish in your own faction city while out of combat? Screw you, you're visible.

I'm pretty sure I put in a ticket about this at least once a week. Would not want to see this again in game.

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Some people wanna blink and fall through the world............................... Not me though.

Would be interesting though to see if you can once again fall through the ground in SW. Used to be some crates next to the tunnel/bridge leading to the Stockades area. You could jump from the crates into a section of wall on the tunnel entrance and it would drop you through.

[elaina]

Oh how I loved the stealth bug that lasted up until BC.

You popped vanish? Sorry, you are out of stealth now.

Popped vanish in your own faction city while out of combat? Screw you, you're visible.

I'm pretty sure I put in a ticket about this at least once a week. Would not want to see this again in game.

A lot of times it was dots ticking on you or some aoe that would pull you out. But I guess that can't explain the own-faction-city example. As a warrior in pvp I regularly caught nearby out of combat or freshly vanished rogues with bloodrage->demo shout, which worked despite dealing zero damage. I imagine that move alone caught a lot of wtfhax!!! from players.

[SirCowdog]

A lot of times it was dots ticking on you or some aoe that would pull you out. But I guess that can't explain the own-faction-city example. As a warrior in pvp I regularly caught nearby out of combat or freshly vanished rogues with bloodrage->demo shout, which worked despite dealing zero damage. I imagine that move alone caught a lot of wtfhax!!! from players.

IIRC it was also partially the garbage net code from back then. You'd hit vanish and go into stealth, but on the other guy would still be able to see you on his client, hit you, and then the hit would be applied afterwords, breaking the steath.

[ComputerNerd]

It's not even about. Achievement's are a cheap crutch that was added to games recently to make it seem like the they have more to offer than they really have. I literally facepalmed when I saw them in Skyrim and Age of empires II HD.

No, achievements can be a target for someone.
Particularly with those encouraging non-typical play, or exceptional skill.
But they should be something you aim to achieve for yourself, not something to hold up over someone else.

Achievements appeared in WoW in TBC if I recall, so hardly "recently" by your reasoning, showing the inconsistency of your argument.
Achievements do not add content or gameplay, but they can highlight more of it.
It has as much to offer as you want it to.

[DesoPL]

If they will implement Ahead Of The Shit(Curve) achievements, no thanks i will not play.

[Doki1889]

If they will implement Ahead Of The Shit(Curve) achievements, no thanks i will not play.

Naaah, achi would maybe be fine if they have to add some modern shit, if they build in LFR and LFG my plan of coming back to Wow is going down to drain. I don't get it, how can people not understand what legacy and pristine servers are? There should be NO changes aside from bug fixes. You play the game the way it was and be happy about it or you dont play at all. If you change shit it would just make it like another fun private server.

[Bumbasta]

There were no achievements in classic. You want classic servers? Do it without achievements then.

[TaurenNinja]

The "curve" achievments and the like are for later versions of WoW with multiple difficulty levels for raids. It doesn't make sense to introduce these achievements in classic since the structure of raids is different on a fundamental level. The regular clear/kill achievement is fine in this case since there is just one difficulty level. (Or no achievements at all just because they weren't originally in the game, but then again... achievements are a neutral feature and don't affect gameplay at all).

On the issue of leaving bugs untouched:
Generally, bugs should be fixed, however there's an interesting edge case with bugs that might add to gameplay in some cases. For example in Starcraft 1/Broodwar, there are a couple of glitches or bugs that can be abused by players which then creates additional gameplay features that were maybe not intended but have still enriched the game (e.g. the mutalisk stacking bug). If there are any of these, this might be a worthy exception. But generally, bugs are bugs and there's nothing cool about them. The example mentioned is an extreme rarity.

[Aphrel]

Insane in the membrane! Insane in the brain!

[glowzone]

You see, back in vanilla, all players with similar interests knew eachother. I knew all good pvpers, they knew me. Some of us became known for good reasons, others for bad reasons.

I didn't invite "noobs" as you put it in vanilla because I actually knew the people who were good. I didn't need no achievements. I had fought alongside them plenty of times. I knew exactly how good/bad they were. Some of us even grew into legends, and that is FAR more rewarding.

You couldn't buy a good reputation like you can buy an achievementrun.
You could be pretty terrible player and still get invited because people really liked you..
You could be a great player but people ignored you because you ninjalooted...these are things that I saw happen all the time, and no achievement could ever replace that much more organic system..

[thewallofsleep]

There were no achievements in clasis WoW; people relied on a good reputation and their guild.

[hulkgor]

There were no achievements in clasis WoW; people relied on a good reputation and their guild.

It just goes to show that most people here just seem to talk bullshit about vanilla and never actually played it, and just assume most of current features (achievements being today's example) were a thing on vanilla.

Silly.

[Armourboy]

It just goes to show that most people here just seem to talk bullshit about vanilla and never actually played it, and just assume most of current features (achievements being today's example) were a thing on vanilla.

Silly.

I think you have a ton of people that have played it on private servers and actually think that's how things worked. We know the tuning on those things are off, the leveling and mobs are generally easier and they also use 1.21 which makes things easier as well.

I'm rather humored when people say they played vanilla but then ask questions on how people check to find out if you've done something. Yeah you met in Ironforge and someone checked your gear. Gear was static, most people had seen that stuff a million times, you knew where it came from. Had you played with them before? Did someone you trusted vouch for them? There are a million ways to find things out. None are full proof, but neither are achievements.

They are fine for live, but are completely unneeded in Classic.

[rootbeerboy]

There were no achievements in clasis WoW; people relied on a good reputation and their guild.

Do you think they might put in guild achievements too? Realm first ragnaros guild run?

[thewallofsleep]

No idea. We know almost nothing about the classic servers, other than that they will exist someday. I personally doubt it, but I could easily be wrong.

[rootbeerboy]

I don't think you understand the idea of classic servers.

Runescape classic was elaborated on with more content I've heard.

[Millyraynge]

ZG gear wasn't really better than MC gear and skipping MC means you would skip your Tier sets.

ZG offers some pretty strong pieces which last at least until AQ40. DPS wise to wear a full T1 set is worst in slot for most of the classes.