Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[KaPe]

Well attuned groups outgear the raid thanks to TF and complain about the difficulty lol, but I agree that compared with ToS, Antorus doesn't have any annoying mechanics which can wipe the whole raid when one person is failing.

He's the last boss of an 11 boss instance. Every single one of them drops superior gear to ToS Mythic, baseline. Unless your whole inventory was filled with 950 Titanforged items, you are not "outgearing" the place and have a massive amount of upgrades in there. Only a tiny minority who did multiple split runs can be called overgeared.

[Jastall]

Just killed HC Argus with my guild. We usually clear like half the bosses in mythic, because attendance boss fucks us hard on our dead server, and we raid only 2 nights a week to make recruitement even more niche... It was so fucking disappointing to see. Raid is around 945 equipped, I'd say about half the players have 72 traits, with a few outliers at 75+. And now we're already back to the shitfest that is farming HC because we can't scrounge up enough players to go and do mythic with a decent roster.

At least during ToS it took us around 7 or 8 weeks to get AotC for the whole roster (some of us managed to pug it early on), so we still had some sort of progress to look forward to. Not this time, sadly. Really bummed out that HC fell over so easily this time.

Yeah, you're an example of what I mean. The people who say ''go do mythic lul'' are missing the point. Mythic isn't the only difficulty, it shouldn't be the only difficulty with a modicum of challenge, and its final boss being faceroll is not justifiable by ''well it's Heroic!''. Historically, Heroic final bosses were fairly difficult early on in the instance's life. Argus feels like a boss that has gone through several rounds of nerfs and players overgearing him, but he's like that week 1. I shudder to think of how stupidly easy he will be once most groups have Heroic on farm status.

[corebit]

People are missing the point of the post. Comparatively Argus is easier than Aggramar or Coven, or maybe even Kingaroth. End bosses should be harder than previous bosses because that's how a raid should work.

We are comparing all the bosses within the same difficulty (in this case Heroic). No need to bring Mythic into the discussion.

The point of the post is not: "Heroic too easy lulz," therefore the usual retort "go do Mythic then" does not apply.

[Cracked]

People are missing the point of the post. Comparatively Argus is easier than Aggramar or Coven, or maybe even Kingaroth. End bosses should be harder than previous bosses because that's how a raid should work.

We are comparing all the bosses within the same difficulty (in this case Heroic). No need to bring Mythic into the discussion.

The point of the post is not: "Heroic too easy lulz," therefore the usual retort "go do Mythic then" does not apply.

Well, not just that. The comparative difficulty is miles away from being similar to say Archimonde heroic, Garrosh normal, etc at release time. Considering the overall playerbase power is only going to go up, where does it really go? Killing argus in 3 minutes 2 months from now? It's just sad.

[Osmeric]

People are missing the point of the post. Comparatively Argus is easier than Aggramar or Coven, or maybe even Kingaroth. End bosses should be harder than previous bosses because that's how a raid should work.

Blizzard will listen carefully to your criticism, and nerf those earlier bosses.

[Nitros14]

Just finished heroic. Definitely the easiest raid in.. ever? We took more pulls on Emerald Nightmare.

6 pulls for heroic Coven. 6 pulls for heroic Aggramar. 6 pulls for heroic Argus. All felt about the same difficulty. Our dps isn't that great so I can definitely say the dps requirement for Argus' last phase is higher than the two bosses before him.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NRAqf3FznHMZG72t

[Kraineth]

KJ isn't harder, he is just more annoying when someone fucked up.

If you think wiping to a boss designed to be tackled by organized groups is "annoying", then there is always LFR.

Heroic Argus was a joke, can only hope that mythic tuning is on point to keep the tier satisfying.

[Siglius]

Blizzard will listen carefully to your criticism, and nerf those earlier bosses.

Pretty sure they already nerfed Coven on NM like yesterday, now I just hope they fix the fucking bombs being bugged on p4 Argus and we gucci.

[fiestatastic]

Mate, it's only Heroic...

Can't recall any other boss that was even close to this easy. Even Xavius wasn't (maybe fairly close, but wasn't). 1-3 shotting a heroic end boss (pretty much the standard it seems) is a little too easy.

[Ophenia]

Antorus doesn't have any annoying mechanics which can wipe the whole raid when one person is failing.

Try not moving while affected by the Soulbomb and watch your raidlead instantly kick you

On-topic : People are comparing the "easiness" of Argus with previous bosses, but keep in mind that Argus is the first endboss having to deal with Legendaries, Netherlight Crucible, Artifact Power, 6-parts bonus sets and MM+ dungeons. All of this increases the "balance nightmare" for devs, who have to balance Argus for everyone. Even people with sub-optimal leggys, shitty Crucible traits, poor AP and maybe no bonus set at all.

It is not balanced for you, 2-BiS-leggos, 2xT20+4xT21 (or vice-versa), 955i, 78AP weapon with 50 pulls on PTR for each boss and WeakAuras already set months before.

[Ipsissimus]

Try not moving while affected by the Soulbomb and watch your raidlead instantly kick you

On-topic : People are comparing the "easiness" of Argus with previous bosses, but keep in mind that Argus is the first endboss having to deal with Legendaries, Netherlight Crucible, Artifact Power, 6-parts bonus sets and MM+ dungeons. All of this increases the "balance nightmare" for devs, who have to balance Argus for everyone. Even people with sub-optimal leggys, shitty Crucible traits, poor AP and maybe no bonus set at all.

It is not balanced for you, 2-BiS-leggos, 2xT20+4xT21 (or vice-versa), 955i, 78AP weapon with 50 pulls on PTR for each boss and WeakAuras already set months before.

It's lovely that you're justifying their ineptitude by their asinine design choices for this expansion. The only reasin it's a "balance nightmare" is because they added an insane amount of RNG modifiers to the overpower curve. You can't simply excuse them by their own design trappings.

Mind you, I'm well aware that I am not the target audience for heroic, as far as I'm concerned the tier 'opens' Wednesday with the EU reset. However, an instance this easy so early into it, before people RNGed their way into those stupidly OP trinkets he drops on random persona loot, before set bonuses and weapons and filled up relics (which most casuals aren't anywhere near), I hate to think how the fight and the instance as a whole will play out a few resets down the line.

Content cannot be trivial the first week it opens, WoW simply doesn't offer enough outside of raiding to accommodate that. There isn't really anything else coming until BfA, so while I'll spend the next weeks progressing through Mythic I honestly have no idea what heroic and normal raiders will be doing. Spending one night a week snoozing through the raid?

How can anyone justify and excuse this is beyond me.

[Tradu]

i know about the En bossed being buffed, what did they change to council?

I don't remember the exact changes, but they all made it harder to heal. I think one of them was fixing the caster mob so you couldn't interrupt him at specific times to make him delay the DoT cast(because the tank damage spam and DoT were the same spell school), and the others were just increases to the healing requirement by making stuff hit harder.

[Puri]

I don't know why people would even argue here, the raid is by far the easiest raid in Legion, yes easier than EN.

We are just a casual guild, and we oneshot Argus normal. After our raidlead explained the tactics for 20m, the fight was just over after 10m and the video played. Then we used the remaining time after clearing the instance on NH to oneshot the first three bosses on heroic.
Sure you say, "'it's only normal". But also the previous raids were only "normal" and it took us three IDs for both Guldan as well as Kiljaeden to get their kills with our limited time, and we did not oneshot a single heroic boss until now. We overgeared the previous raids from m+ just as we do it now, so this is not a real excuse.

I am really afraid we are going to clear the instance in heroic in two or three lockouts, as this would mean from my experience our raid is going to "hibernate" again in late January already as we cannot muster the required numbers for mythic.

[Rylalai]

I agree but there are people who only raid this and you'd think they would get borded really fast when even the last bosses are as easy as this.

I get the feeling that Blizzard just overreacted when people told them ToS was too hard and they just took this one down too far.
We'll seen next week though.

This.

Sadly, not every guild gets 20 people together for a mythic raid. I guess, we'll just raid through HC for a while before the first people are bored and quit..

[Temp name]

Finished heroic yesterday. Coven was harder for us than any of the other bosses. Argus just kinda.. Died.

[antelope591]

Here's a thought maybe Blizz wants more guilds to get into mythic raiding. ToS was probably the lowest clear rate since Naxx 40 which is a pretty big fail as far as participation. And if Argus has a Sargeras hidden phase on mythic there will be a lot of complaining from casuals. With Heroic being so easy mythic participation will be pretty high like it was in EN

[xcess]

They might add a 10 min hard enrage like KJ ? Might actually make deaths in the first phases mean something

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a thought maybe Blizz wants more guilds to get into mythic raiding. ToS was probably the lowest clear rate since Naxx 40 which is a pretty big fail as far as participation. And if Argus has a Sargeras hidden phase on mythic there will be a lot of complaining from casuals. With Heroic being so easy mythic participation will be pretty high like it was in EN

na man a lot of guilds cant do myhic cos they cant get a stable 20. They should open up x realm mythic like after first nerfs or go back to 10/25 if they want more participation.

[Deleted]

While I only have a steamroll normal kill with my mythic raider guild so far, I can see the issue here, which is not really an issue.

There are mechanics, it's not just tank and spank. Mythic raiders however have a thing that is called skill. So they have better awareness and expect more from a boss. It's hc, not mythic, while I know how it feels, despite I'm not a mythic raider: I did 60+ waves of proving grouns tank back in MoP, and I did it for hours straight. After that, SoO hc (normal) felt like a joke, everything was so slow, despite I did multiple runs before, after proving grounds my awareness changed a lot. This is the case with mythic raiders going to a hc raid.

There is also the gear. Skillforged system makes most players way overgeared for the next raid content. Think about it: hc ToS base ilvl is 915. However I bet a hc ToS raider barely has mostly 915 ilvl items. 935+ from weekly chest, skillforge, and you are way overgeared for even the next hc content, which is not as hard as previous mythic in this case, yet it drops the same ilvl items (930+). Stepping up by 1 more difficulty, makes the difference even more notable, because ilvl increase player power exponentially, not linearly.

TL;DR: If you find it easy, then you are not the targeted audience of it. Try mythic next week.

[kamuimac]

It's lovely that you're justifying their ineptitude by their asinine design choices for this expansion. The only reasin it's a "balance nightmare" is because they added an insane amount of RNG modifiers to the overpower curve. You can't simply excuse them by their own design trappings.

Mind you, I'm well aware that I am not the target audience for heroic, as far as I'm concerned the tier 'opens' Wednesday with the EU reset. However, an instance this easy so early into it, before people RNGed their way into those stupidly OP trinkets he drops on random persona loot, before set bonuses and weapons and filled up relics (which most casuals aren't anywhere near), I hate to think how the fight and the instance as a whole will play out a few resets down the line.

Content cannot be trivial the first week it opens, WoW simply doesn't offer enough outside of raiding to accommodate that. There isn't really anything else coming until BfA, so while I'll spend the next weeks progressing through Mythic I honestly have no idea what heroic and normal raiders will be doing. Spending one night a week snoozing through the raid?

How can anyone justify and excuse this is beyond me.

he is not wrong though - raids should never be tuned for idiots who spend 10k hours in game .

if the game is too easy ? well then maybe dont spend 12 hours daily playing 1 game - or go do mythic which is difficulty for people like that.

people have been forever complaining about why they cant go straight from one mythic to mythic - well now you can

[Progenitor Aquarius]

It’s more easier than TOS which makes me happy I don’t have to spend so much time wiping and take care of myself in real life. Fight is more fun also, gives a bit adrenaline, it’s not demotivating. That moment when you die and tree disappears you can still collect orbs and help raid, or might as well heal tree and get resurrected endlessly. The fight gives a lot of opportunities to mess around