Is Firearms Ownership in the US becoming a Cult?

[shadowmouse]

What specifically makes you think that owning a gun equates to cult mentality?

Probably the last paragraph, where one usually puts the conclusion:

And that's when I find myself asking, is it because firearms ownership became a cult? The NRA and its speakers are the charismatic leader figures. Crime, terrorism, even the idea that our own government might go the wrong way -- those are the ever present and yet intangible threat. The faithful speak a particular way. There is disloyal speech.

The dictionary is a fine tool, it has limits. It defines the use of a word and little more. Let me refer you to another source (already quoted): http://csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

[Deleted]

link your statistics and then tell me the logical reasons that these give to hate guns and or their owners and i'll tell you why you're an idiot.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Also nobody is hating guns or owners just the issue you have period

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I don't know anything about the NRA, have they committed a lot of crimes with firearms or something? Are they a terrorist group?

The problems with your regulations are:
How do you define mentally ill? People had a huge fit over Trump allowing "mentally ill" people back into the military, without considering that "mentally ill" means your child that had ADHD at age 10 would never be allowed to join the military. Also, who defines mentally ill? I consider people that want general reassignment as mentally ill, as it's a form of body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), are they mentally ill under this law?

Ex-cons already have a hard enough time finding work after being in prison, but you want them to be unable to protect themselves or have a collection of antiques? It's also another vague blanket term, and most people on probation are already not allowed to own firearms.

You also don't understand how huge the United States is and compare it to your tiny island. The expenses it would take to put all this into action and control these vague laws would be massive.

Toxic Culture doesn't mean Terrorism or Crimes, just a unhealthy attitude.

So rather than even attempt change the solution is to just put up and shut up? I mean you're free to ignore the issue but it's only going to get worst /shrug

[a1derful1]

Oh right, so now all medical questionnaires and political polling are some grand conspiracy the persists by fabricating all data?

Didn't say that. Said it's none of their business and polls have been off before, especially on political issues, so they hold little weight.

And I am sure she was the one that asked why the questionnaire had asked about firearms in the house. She's trying to placate you because she's new to the country and doesn't want you to become upset if she questioned your reasoning.

Uh...she's been in the country almost 20 years, so she's well Americanized now. Placate me? One thing she is not, is submissive. She tells me what to do half the time. Good job trying to stereotype.

What's your definition of upset if not for the objective amount of electoral votes tallied? Your feelings?

Oh my god...the fact that he won against the odds. I really didn't think I'd have to spell that out for ya. When was the last time there was an upset like this? Truman perhaps? Holding up a "Dewey Wins" titled newspaper?

It isn't semantics, just your aversion to facts and data that don't comport with the manufactured worldview you have been deluded into. The irony in your example is that there is clear evidence from DOJ data that shows the racial profiling that occurs by police officers which are reprimanded by the DOJ.

Just because you don't like being called out on BS, doesn't mean it's not true.

Yes, I don't have a convulsive aversion to medical questionnaires and the entire field of statistics, because of some boogeyman.

While that bit is funny, you just say the same stuff and don't read with comprehension, so it's getting boring. And I'm the deluded one...lol...ok...

[Daelak]

Oh my god...the fact that he won against the odds. I really didn't think I'd have to spell that out for ya. When was the last time there was an upset like this? Truman perhaps? Holding up a "Dewey Wins" titled newspaper?

Clinton in 1992. This election wasn't nearly as upsetting or historic as you want it to be, that's your "independent" mindedness coming out again.

[Sliske]

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

So the reason this is an idiotic non argument is that literally any of those incidents could be caused by a knife or even something like a brick.

The US will not ban either of those and they will and should not ban guns.

[Rumzlug]

Arguing gun control with the ignorant left is like watching paint dry. It's pointless their grounds and basis for the reasons they think gun control is a good idea are plain and simply wrong. Look at Australia they disarmed their citizens and their murder rate didn't really change actually had a couple of record years afterwards. Can think of many other examples countries disarmed their citizens and it back fired horribly.

But who is saying that Gun Control = Lower murder rates? No one that I have seen. You are linking two things that are not related.

Please give me an example where it back fired "horribly"

[Deleted]

So the reason this is an idiotic non argument is that literally any of those incidents could be caused by a knife or even something like a brick.

The US will not ban either of those and they will and should not ban guns.

Because the US doesn't have knife crime either?

This is typical deflection and why you're fucked

[A dot Ham]

Probably the last paragraph, where one usually puts the conclusion:


The dictionary is a fine tool, it has limits. It defines the use of a word and little more. Let me refer you to another source (already quoted): http://csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

So then according to your checklist... gun owners don't actually qualify as a cult. So you make salacious claims for no other reason than to draw attention to your post... click bait... like I said.

[lewdest]

Toxic Culture doesn't mean Terrorism or Crimes, just a unhealthy attitude.

So rather than even attempt change the solution is to just put up and shut up? I mean you're free to ignore the issue but it's only going to get worst /shrug

At least we can talk about our problems. I dare you to speak out against unnamed religion. You didn't even try to refute my points. You can't just take away rights from someone after they've served their time in prison, and mental illness is too vague and constantly changing. These are valid points even before bringing up how big the country is and how much it would cost to regulate something that wouldn't prevent criminals from committing crimes anyway.

Can you tell me what "toxic culture" even means? I don't even know what the hell you're talking about, I just know "toxic" is some buzzword that people use to describe people they don't like.

[Shiny212]

The sentiment is accurate, but cults are too small in scale. It's a full blown religion.

[Deleted]

But who is saying that Gun Control = Lower murder rates? No one that I have seen. You are linking two things that are not related.

Please give me an example where it back fired "horribly"

Err better gun control would lower deaths

[Rumzlug]

Having sharp objects in the home increases risk of harm. Having electricity in the home increases risk of harm. Same with water. Driving a car greatly increases your risk of harm.

Yes they are. The difference is over the years we have done countless things to make those things safer. Why when anyone brings up a discussion about doing the same for guns they instantly go to "2a" or "you can't take them" or whatever else. When in reality no one is trying to take them. All anyone wants to do is make them safer and solve a problem.

[Deleted]

At least we can talk about our problems. I dare you to speak out against unnamed religion. You didn't even try to refute my points. You can't just take away rights from someone after they've served their time in prison, and mental illness is too vague and constantly changing. These are valid points even before bringing up how big the country is and how much it would cost to regulate something that wouldn't prevent criminals from committing crimes anyway.

Can you tell me what "toxic culture" even means? I don't even know what the hell you're talking about, I just know "toxic" is some buzzword that people use to describe people they don't like.

You say this like extremism amongst Muslims doesn't happen in the US. UK is addressing this issue daily. Regarding mentally ill that's something you look into and decide which illnesses.

[Rumzlug]

Until we can shoot a gun from the states and hit a person in Briton with the bullet, it's really none of your business though.

But it is. That is a huge problem people fail to see on how everything is on a global scale now. What happens when US tourism drops because people are afraid to come here because of "all the crazies with guns"? Plenty of other examples on how it affects other countries. We want to ignore it and close the doors and tell people to leave us alone. The same can be said the other way around that the issue would "brexit" does not affect us in the US, when in truth is has major implications.

[Stormdash]

Really this is Lincoln's fault. He's the one who tied gun ownership to freedom when he didn't make the Confederates surrender their arms.

The Founders tied gun ownership to freedom when they ratified the Bill of Rights and the express individual liberty interest in gun ownership therein.

[Dystemper]

Yes they are. The difference is over the years we have done countless things to make those things safer. Why when anyone brings up a discussion about doing the same for guns they instantly go to "2a" or "you can't take them" or whatever else. When in reality no one is trying to take them. All anyone wants to do is make them safer and solve a problem.

We have trigger locks, and gun safes. What has been done to make knives safer? Other then GFI switches, How as electricity made safer? And please dont parrot that bullshit " No one wants to take your guns" horseshit. You have Bloomberg, Feinstein , Moms demand action, etc etc have already said that is what they want .

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Err better gun control would lower deaths

How? be precise out side of complete confiscation .
During the Clinton Gun ban murder and violent crime rose

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This topic has already strayed well into the gun control Topic and it has its own thread for that. This thread should be locked

[Rumzlug]

You can't just take away rights from someone after they've served their time in prison

Where do you live where convicted felons can own guns and that we don't restrict their rights after they have served their time?

Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code, federal law bans convicted felons from possessing firearms or ammunition.
Some states ban felons from voting for a certain period of time after their release while others ban felons for life.
Certain public positions bar felons from taking employment. Employment with the U.S. Armed Forces, law enforcement agencies, teachers, child care professionals and many jobs that require a professional license.
Not being allowed to serve on a jury in most states
Convicted felons are not allowed to apply for federal or state grants, live in public housing, or receive federal cash assistance, SSI or food stamps, among other benefits.

I'd say we infringe pretty well on their rights.

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Err better gun control would lower deaths

Deaths by guns? Yes
Deaths in general? No

[a1derful1]

Clinton in 1992. This election wasn't nearly as upsetting or historic as you want it to be, that's your "independent" mindedness coming out again.

Oh please...everyone knew Ross Perot was gonna ruin it for Bush. That was not a surprise. Ross Perot was quite popular until he dropped out, then when he came back he wasn't quite as popular, but was just enough to swing the direction in Clinton's favor.

[Rumzlug]

? Other then GFI switches, How as electricity made safer? And please dont parrot that bullshit " No one wants to take your guns" horseshit. You have Bloomberg, Feinstein , Moms demand action, etc etc have already said that is what they want .

Wire insulation. Underground cables. Wiring standards in general. Warning signs. Education. Outlet covers....the list really could go on for a while.

We seem to be stuck with the polarized and outspoken views of the few on each side. Limiting what the rest of us can actually do about the problem or even have a discussion about it. Yes, there are some people who think that is the answer and some media stories about ideas like that. But lets go back to reality and have a real discussion. No one is taking your guns (or mine).

[lewdest]

Where do you live where convicted felons can own guns and that we don't restrict their rights after they have served their time?

Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code, federal law bans convicted felons from possessing firearms or ammunition.
Some states ban felons from voting for a certain period of time after their release while others ban felons for life.
Certain public positions bar felons from taking employment. Employment with the U.S. Armed Forces, law enforcement agencies, teachers, child care professionals and many jobs that require a professional license.
Not being allowed to serve on a jury in most states
Convicted felons are not allowed to apply for federal or state grants, live in public housing, or receive federal cash assistance, SSI or food stamps, among other benefits.

I'd say we infringe pretty well on their rights.

He was saying "ex-con" which puts literally everyone that has ever served time in prison in the same position. Serve a year on a non-violent crime charge? Lose your weapons for life.