1. #1

    Sargeras and Illidan Cutscene....Explain Please

    The final cutscene....and really Antorius period has me almost as confused as the one with Deathwing and the Aspects.

    For starters how did the Titan Pantheon get resurrected? After we defeated the Coven? I also Titans would have been way bigger, Argus seems smaller than Odyn to me, whose just a Keeper.

    Then out of nowhere Sargeras himself pops up in the flesh from a cloud in his his full glory, in an attempt to claim or destroy Azeroth. My understanding is since every attempt to summon himself there failed....it pretty much took him eons to manually fly there? Bit slow for a nigh omnipotent being isn't he?

    And is Illidan's new altruistic attitude rubbing anyone else the wrong way? Illidan was never a bad guy, which was why many fans were pissed we killed him during the TBC. However he was never a good guy either, what we loved about him was that he was an anti-hero. And he played the line down the center perfectly. Where as now his selfless acts put him far closer to hero.

    Illidan was always motivated by three things, power, self preservation....and Tyrande. His campaign against the Legion wasn't about saving the Universe it was about saving his own ass because he knew Kil'jaeden would come for him. If his willingness to watch over Sargeras was motivated by vengeance that sounds a bit more like him, but "hunter without hunt?" I mean granted at this point he really has nothing better to do but still.

    Hearing him explain his actions to Malfurion and Tyrande just kind of made me cringe "All for destroying the Legion." This really just makes him an Arthas that veered toward the light. As opposed to the Chaotic Neutral guy we all loved. Such a shift in personality needs to be explained more. Still a shift I can live with, no where near as bad as how Jaina and Garrosh ended up.

  2. #2
    Explanation: Bad writing.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    And is Illidan's new altruistic attitude rubbing anyone else the wrong way? Illidan was never a bad guy, which was why many fans were pissed we killed him during the TBC. However he was never a good guy either, what we loved about him was that he was an anti-hero. And he played the line down the center perfectly. Where as now his selfless acts put him far closer to hero.
    Illidan was pure bad guy on burning crusade and it is just really bad writing to change him to good guy after so many expansion

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    The final cutscene....and really Antorius period has me almost as confused as the one with Deathwing and the Aspects.

    1. For starters how did the Titan Pantheon get resurrected? After we defeated the Coven? I also Titans would have been way bigger, Argus seems smaller than Odyn to me, whose just a Keeper.

    2. Then out of nowhere Sargeras himself pops up in the flesh from a cloud in his his full glory, in an attempt to claim or destroy Azeroth. My understanding is since every attempt to summon himself there failed....it pretty much took him eons to manually fly there? Bit slow for a nigh omnipotent being isn't he?

    3. And is Illidan's new altruistic attitude rubbing anyone else the wrong way? Illidan was never a bad guy, which was why many fans were pissed we killed him during the TBC. However he was never a good guy either, what we loved about him was that he was an anti-hero. And he played the line down the center perfectly. Where as now his selfless acts put him far closer to hero.

    4. Illidan was always motivated by three things, power, self preservation....and Tyrande. His campaign against the Legion wasn't about saving the Universe it was about saving his own ass because he knew Kil'jaeden would come for him. If his willingness to watch over Sargeras was motivated by vengeance that sounds a bit more like him, but "hunter without hunt?" I mean granted at this point he really has nothing better to do but still.

    5. Hearing him explain his actions to Malfurion and Tyrande just kind of made me cringe "All for destroying the Legion." This really just makes him an Arthas that veered toward the light. As opposed to the Chaotic Neutral guy we all loved. Such a shift in personality needs to be explained more. Still a shift I can live with, no where near as bad as how Jaina and Garrosh ended up.
    Makes more sense than the Cataclysm finale imo

    1. The Pantheon isn't resurrected. Their spirits / essences have always been alive (where they've been has been retconned though). They've just finally been freed and reunited. This is also why they're tiny in comparison. Argus wasn't ready to be birthed. Think of him as a corrupted aborted titan fetus.

    2. Illidan opened a giant portal in space that is well and truly larger than Azeroth. It isn't that far-fetched that Sargeras can just use it willy nilly.

    3. I actually thought they were going to go full redemption story which would have sucked. But they didn't. Illidan stays behind because he wants to pick a fight with Sargeras. Not because he has to or out of any self sacrifice. He's still following his own selfish motivations to a degree. However yes, there are shitty retcons.

    4. Everything he does to fight the Legion is not only to save himself, but Tyrande as well. So that means Azeroth. However due to bad writing we never actually see Tyrande in the main story of Legion (outside of the cutscene of Illidan dying).

    5. A result of shitty retcons and Malfurion and Tyrande not being in the main plot of Legion. Which I still don't fucking understand. His motivations make sense, you can still hate the retcons though. If you don't understand Jaina's character shift, I suggest you read up on it more. Like her or hate her, it makes sense.
    Last edited by Captain Kennedy; 2017-12-05 at 05:42 AM.

  5. #5
    Don't take Illidan seriously when it comes to consistency. For example many of Malfurion and many surrounding characters's reactions to Illidan in WC3 or other older version of the stories were based off and in the context of the older versions of Illidan that simply don't make sense in the context of the new version of Illidan.

    Let's take Malfurion's attitude toward Illidan in WC3. He was really harsh. However, that attitude reflected what Illidan did in WC3's version of WotA which was really evil. Illidan flat out revealed Malfurion's plan to Azshara in hope of preserving the well because he thought that the legion would win anyway, so he would take the well over his people.

    Another example is when Malfurion said that Illidan lost his mind. That was back in vanilla WoW and the subsequent xpac showed that Illidan indeed lost his mind in TBC. He was in the state of delusion regarding his fgiht with Arthas. It made sense within its given context but with Blizzard's inconsistent writtings, it does not make sense aymore.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2017-12-05 at 06:17 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Another example is when Malfurion said that Illidan lost his mind. That was back in vanilla WoW and the subsequent xpac showed that Illidan indeed lost his mind in TBC. He was in the state of delusion regarding his fgiht with Arthas. It made sense within its given context but with Blizzard's inconsistent writtings, it does not make sense aymore.
    Malfurion was in Vanilla? Didn't he only wake from the dream in post-WoTLK content? That's what Staghelm was in charge of the druids for a short time.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Malfurion was in Vanilla? Didn't he only wake from the dream in post-WoTLK content? That's what Staghelm was in charge of the druids for a short time.
    Eranikus quest. He spoke from the dream.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Eranikus quest. He spoke from the dream.
    Aahh. I didn't do much with emerald stuff in vanilla.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    The final cutscene....and really Antorius period has me almost as confused as the one with Deathwing and the Aspects.

    For starters how did the Titan Pantheon get resurrected? After we defeated the Coven? I also Titans would have been way bigger, Argus seems smaller than Odyn to me, whose just a Keeper.
    The Pantheon "resurrected" because we freed them from Sargeras's power. They never truly died, just their bodies were destroyed. Once they were freed and gained control back, they created new bodies. The titans are way bigger, hello, Sargeras. That form they took there was to let them be smaller to interact with us, and to sit at the seat of the Pantheon. Look at Sargeras as an example. He was massive until teleported to the Seat, then he became the same size as the other titans. Everyone empowered by the Titans can take a smaller form, the Aspects, Odyn into Havi. The Titans can as well.

    Then out of nowhere Sargeras himself pops up in the flesh from a cloud in his his full glory, in an attempt to claim or destroy Azeroth. My understanding is since every attempt to summon himself there failed....it pretty much took him eons to manually fly there? Bit slow for a nigh omnipotent being isn't he?
    Sageras was using Argus's power to regenerate his body. He finished that as he traveled to Azeroth in the form of the cloud. Also, that was the whole freaking point of summoning him through out all of the story in the expansions. They didn't know exactly where Azeroth was, and even if they did, it would take him eons to fly there on his own.


    And is Illidan's new altruistic attitude rubbing anyone else the wrong way? Illidan was never a bad guy, which was why many fans were pissed we killed him during the TBC. However he was never a good guy either, what we loved about him was that he was an anti-hero. And he played the line down the center perfectly. Where as now his selfless acts put him far closer to hero.

    Illidan was always motivated by three things, power, self preservation....and Tyrande. His campaign against the Legion wasn't about saving the Universe it was about saving his own ass because he knew Kil'jaeden would come for him. If his willingness to watch over Sargeras was motivated by vengeance that sounds a bit more like him, but "hunter without hunt?" I mean granted at this point he really has nothing better to do but still.
    This has nothing to do with being altruistic, or saving the universe. This has to do with him wanting to beat the crap out of Sargeras for everything he has done. Illidan was standing there preparing to fight. Nothing said he was going to "watch over him". Also, how do you know this act isn't motivated by power? Sargeras gave him the power to begin with, he might be doing this to take more power from Sargeras. For all we know, this is a very elaborate plan by Illidan to take Sargeras's place.

    Hearing him explain his actions to Malfurion and Tyrande just kind of made me cringe "All for destroying the Legion." This really just makes him an Arthas that veered toward the light. As opposed to the Chaotic Neutral guy we all loved. Such a shift in personality needs to be explained more. Still a shift I can live with, no where near as bad as how Jaina and Garrosh ended up.
    Or the explanations to Malfurion and Tyrande were so they don't hate him for the rest of their lives, and the rest of the feelings that goes with that. As you can see, neither of them went to see him on the broken shore.

    Show me where Arthas sacrificed stuff to destroy the scourge? He wiped out a city and then joined the scourge. He did nothing that cost him anything to try and stop the scourge. The only thing that Arthas remotely did, was prevent the Lich King of obliterate the planet, which he almost did anyways had Tirion not Ex Machinia'd himself out of that ice block. And how do you know what Jain is like? We saw her once at the start of Legion and she vanished after that.

    These complaints about Illidan, is the exact same thing when a band slightly changes their sound. "It's not what I'm used to. Nothing should ever change".
    Last edited by Pandragon; 2017-12-05 at 07:43 AM.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    The Pantheon "resurrected" because we freed them from Sargeras's power. They never truly died, just their bodies were destroyed. Once they were freed and gained control back, they created new bodies. The titans are way bigger, hello, Sargeras. That form they took there was to let them be smaller to interact with us, and to sit at the seat of the Pantheon. Look at Sargeras as an example. He was massive until teleported to the Seat, then he became the same size as the other titans. Everyone empowered by the Titans can take a smaller form, the Aspects, Odyn into Havi. The Titans can as well.


    Sageras was using Argus's power to regenerate his body. He finished that as he traveled to Azeroth in the form of the cloud. Also, that was the whole freaking point of summoning him through out all of the story in the expansions. They didn't know exactly where Azeroth was, and even if they did, it would take him eons to fly there on his own.
    I make a thread searching for answers on this red cloud thing, and I find it here. wtf. Did any characters make reference to that cloud at all during the Antorus raid? No one seemed alarmed. It feels like there is a missing quest or cinematic.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Elune-life-nature View Post
    I really don't know what is Blizzard's problem with Tyrande. She could have shined in Legion but they only use her to justify why Nightborne went Horde. Though she received some love at Val'sharah's end with the cinematic. I really hope they give her some love with Azshara's presence in the next expansion
    they will probably leave her out from the new expansion as well.

    Oh, Teldrassil burns!?

    Meh, its not our concern.

  12. #12
    When was Illidan altruistic? He stayed because he wanted to beat on Sargeras. It wasn't driven by altruism.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    When was Illidan altruistic? He stayed because he wanted to beat on Sargeras. It wasn't driven by altruism.
    But that's something I still don't quiet get. Illidan's main beef seemed to be with Kil'jaedan since he knew he would come for him after failing at Icecrown. Where as Sargeras had been mia Medievh's death, and Illidan's last interaction with him was thousands of years ago in the War of the Ancients.

    I mean the fact that Sargeras pops back up again period is odd to me. Kil'jaedan (who got totally shafted btw another thread for that...) was the current leader of the Legion in his absence. We were never sure where the hell he was, somewhere in the Twisting Nether. Hear him when Varimathas tries to summon him but that's it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    But that's something I still don't quiet get. Illidan's main beef seemed to be with Kil'jaedan since he knew he would come for him after failing at Icecrown. Where as Sargeras had been mia Medievh's death, and Illidan's last interaction with him was thousands of years ago in the War of the Ancients.
    Illidan's beef with the Burning Legion started in the War of the Ancients. He has not been hunting Kil'jaeden, but the Legion as a whole, and Sargeras is its head.

    Terran Gregory stated that this cinematic more than any other relies on context from the raid. I haven't run it, but perhaps completing it (or watching someone complete it) will give you some answers.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kennedy View Post
    1. The Pantheon isn't resurrected. Their spirits / essences have always been alive (where they've been has been retconned though). They've just finally been freed and reunited. This is also why they're tiny in comparison. Argus wasn't ready to be birthed. Think of him as a corrupted aborted titan fetus.
    So basically?


    - - - Updated - - -

    It looks like the titans rejuvenated themselves from some of Argus's essence, gaining their physical forms back.

    I assume the smoke was Sargeras slowly pouring himself through the giant portal Illidan left. Even with a portal the size of a planet it took him a while and he was only half formed when the titans yanked him off. Somewhere out in the universe his unholy crotch is still on the loose.

    While Illidan was certainly more hero-y you have to keep in mind that he also killed the leader of the army of the light for telling him what to do, nearly caused Sargeras to destroy the world by doing exactly what the legion has been trying to do for years, and even Tyrande isn't sure if his words are sincere after all he put them through. Yeah he wanted power to save the world, but he also wanted power because he wanted power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •