[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Noradin]

I mean if the end the Irish issue makes it clear even to them that they have no choice but to join the Single Market, the EU could let them save face by letting them pay less through a new form of rebate. It's not at all ideal for the EU (since then Norway should demand similar treatment) but it could let the UK at least get something out of this mess.

Or they can go with an open border and let every nation on the WTO sue them.

I don't think such a rebate would make it through the national parliaments.
I certainly would be very put upon if my representatives allowed such a thing to pass.
Not because I dislike the UK, but out of principle.

[Slant]

I don't think such a rebate would make it through the national parliaments.
I certainly would be very put upon if my representatives allowed such a thing to pass.
Not because I dislike the UK, but out of principle.

Agreed. The rebate has been a thorn in the EU's side for too long. It's time to stop it, now that we have the opportunity.
@dribbles, you'll pay. Don't you worry.

[Deleted]

The only way a hard border can sensibly be avoided is by Northern Ireland staying in the Single Market. And the only way Northern Ireland can sensibly stay in the Single Market is by UK as a whole staying in Single Market.

This reality seems to be destroying the UK. The still have no position.

Watching the UK crash out because of incompetence is pretty amazing.

[Deleted]

Only when compare to what you had before, it still would be a good deal compared to what you could have.
That's the irony of the matter.

It'll always get compared to what we had though.

That's the thing, Brexiteers think that we'll end up far better off than we were in the EU. The rest of us realise that we might end up slightly better off than we were in the EU, but we'll have a hell of a slog to get there, and I don't trust my government (any party) to make that slog.

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Indeed I doubt the UK would retain Thatcher's rebate if they joined the EEA. Though that would be a decent negotiating target for the EU as well; UK agrees to be in the EEA but gets the rebate and maybe more; EU gets their trade and freedom of movement, UK pays much less to the EU but has no say. Heck that could even get UK that NHS money.

The NHS money is probably the only thing that the Brexiteers can hope to accomplish at this point, and even then, that's going to get eaten up by being thrown into the areas that the EU was massively funding.

We'll still end up with a deficit thanks to the retarded 52% of this country.

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The only way a hard border can sensibly be avoided is by Northern Ireland staying in the Single Market. And the only way Northern Ireland can sensibly stay in the Single Market is by UK as a whole staying in Single Market.

This reality seems to be destroying the UK. The still have no position.

Watching the UK crash out because of incompetence is pretty amazing.

It's alright though, because people have "had enough of experts" according to Gove, those exact same experts who predicted pretty much everything thats happened post Brexit, pre Brexit.

[Noradin]

It'll always get compared to what we had though.

Too bad, it also gets compared to what others get.

[Tinch]

It's alright though, because people have "had enough of experts" according to Gove, those exact same experts who predicted pretty much everything thats happened post Brexit, pre Brexit.

Did it?

Where are the job losses? The fall in house prices? The recession? The crash of the stock market?

Even some of the areas where they were right were vastly overstated. Sterling was supposedly going to be reaching parity with the dollar by now.

[Noradin]

Did it?

Where are the job losses? The fall in house prices? The recession? The crash of the stock market?

Even some of the areas where they were right were vastly overstated. Sterling was supposedly going to be reaching parity with the dollar by now.

Impatient to see your destructive fantasies fulfilled?

[Tinch]

Impatient to see your destructive fantasies fulfilled?

Well considering we were told they would have happened by now, I'm wondering where they are.

And before I hear the 'we haven't left yet' mantra, we were told that the effect of the referendum decision alone would have this impact. Then it was pushed back to when article 50 was triggered, then it was pushed back to March 2019, and no doubt it will be pushed back another couple of years again if the predictions don't materialise by then either.

[Noradin]

Well considering we were told they would have happened by now, I'm wondering where they are.

And before I hear the 'we haven't left yet' mantra, we were told that the effect of the referendum decision alone would have this impact. Then it was pushed back to when article 50 was triggered, then it was pushed back to March 2019, and no doubt it will be pushed back another couple of years again if the predictions don't materialise by then either.

Yes, yes, you are right, there will be no downsides to Brexit and tomorrow it will start raining gold for all faithfull Brexiteers.
Oh and you will get the moon to eat, because it is made of cheese, experts deny it so it must be true!

[Deleted]

Did it?

Where are the job losses? The fall in house prices? The recession? The crash of the stock market?

Even some of the areas where they were right were vastly overstated. Sterling was supposedly going to be reaching parity with the dollar by now.

brexit hasnt happened yet.

[Tinch]

Yes, yes, you are right, there will be no downsides to Brexit and tomorrow it will start raining gold for all faithfull Brexiteers.
Oh and you will get the moon to eat, because it is made of cheese, experts deny it so it must be true!

Yes because that's exactly what I said... Great comprehension skills.

Now if you could try and actually stay on track if you're going to reply to me that would be great.

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[Tinch]

brexit hasnt happened yet.

Aka 'we haven't left yet' which I addressed above.

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[Noradin]

Yes because that's exactly what I said... Great comprehension skills.

Now if you could try and actually stay on track if you're going to reply to me that would be great.

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I did stay on topic just as well as you did.

And please stop advertizing, this is a forum, not some place to post advertisments.

[Tinch]

I did stay on topic just as well as you did.

And please stop advertizing, this is a forum, not some place to post advertisments.

I responded to someone who mentioned the predictions of experts and have stayed on that topic in all of my posts.

You went off on a tangent to say I have said there will be no downsides to Brexit. Please point out where I have said that, I'll wait.

No idea what you're going on about with the advertising point, sorry.

[Deleted]

And of course Brexit can absolutely succeed as well.

Ignoring the fact that it really can't, the UK either has a border on the island of Ireland, at which point the GFA goes up in smoke, (and creates enormous other problems too) or there is a border in the Irish Sea, at which point the United kingdom and Northern Ireland is just the United kingdom.
Brexit will either be meaningless, or it will require accepting either of two unacceptable positions regarding the border.
The Tories will have to choose, meaningful brexit and no NI, or meaningful brexit and breaking the GFA - Or no meaningful brexit.
There are no possible brexits that ticks all boxes i'm afraid.

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I don't think such a rebate would make it through the national parliaments.
I certainly would be very put upon if my representatives allowed such a thing to pass.
Not because I dislike the UK, but out of principle.

No one's actually said it on EU level, but from the member-states, there is clear rumblings that revoking Art 50 (and presumably thus any EEA solution) will require a price.

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It'll always get compared to what we had though.

That's the thing, Brexiteers think that we'll end up far better off than we were in the EU. The rest of us realise that we might end up slightly better off than we were in the EU, but we'll have a hell of a slog to get there, and I don't trust my government (any party) to make that slog.

The fun fact is that one of the Eurosceptic tribes are the 'de-regulators' they don't like the EU because the EU has a regulatory regime that is, you know, European - instead of American - And their great hope is to fundamentally change the UK (Ignoring the fact that this has no electoral support whatsoever) Problem?
The EU Isn't interested in letting the UK have great access with no regulatory overlap - So even if their plans made economic sense, doesn't matter - they aren't going to be able to execute them anyway.

[ranzino]

perhaps they should tell DUP to stick it where the sun doesnt shine ? DuP will have to choose hard order or GFA.

[primalmatter]

I think they are just drag their feet till they can spit on the notion of democracy and back out.

It is disgusting on multiple levels that voting has been revealed to be a pointless action in the UK. It seems force will eventually be needed if the public ever wishes to be listened to.

[Vankrys]

I think they are just drag their feet till they can spit on the notion of democracy and back out.

It is disgusting on multiple levels that voting has been revealed to be a pointless action in the UK. It seems force will eventually be needed if the public ever wishes to be listened to.

i do not see brexit being cancelled. It is happening, the question is what kind of brexit is happening.

Perhaps you should have had that choice on your referendum last year, 3 choices hard brexit, soft brexit or no brexit.

[Deleted]

I think they are just drag their feet till they can spit on the notion of democracy and back out.

It is disgusting on multiple levels that voting has been revealed to be a pointless action in the UK. It seems force will eventually be needed if the public ever wishes to be listened to.

what are your solutions to the trade deal, irish question and citizens rights?

[primalmatter]

i do not see brexit being cancelled. It is happening, the question is what kind of brexit is happening.

Perhaps you should have had that choice on your referendum last year, 3 choices hard brexit, soft brexit or no brexit.

I honestly don't think it is going to happen they had a choice they chose a hard brexit. A soft brexit doesn't make any sense to start with. Why would you tie your fate to them and leave?

No I honestly think we will just be given more and more votes till people vote "the right way"

Lets not pretend for a moment this would be considered if remain won. They would simply of told us to stop being a bunch of whiny losers.

Hell you see the same mentality with people against Trump.

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what are your solutions to the trade deal, irish question and citizens rights?

You make a new deal. Are we pretending countries don't trade with other counties? Its absurd on the face of it.

The Irish lost get over it or rebel.

What do citizen rights have to do with the question? Are tou talking non citizens?