Hypocrisy of Vanilla Players

[Wiedzemir]

Servercaps back in vanilla was mostly due to hardware/software and bandwidth restrictions and spawnrates thusly was adapted accordingly. The size of the world in vanilla can easily accomodate a larger population size without feeling too crowded, assuming the up the spawnrates from retail vanilla values.

Again, this is what Nost did and they had a pretty good balance.

What are you going to do when suddenly people reach 60 and go Eastern Plaguelands, like 500+ of them at the same time. Because that's what's going to happen.

[Aphrel]

I'm not even sure what private realms have to do with Classic. Among other things, the fact that private servers are never accurate recreation, I don't play on them. Also, more than 4-5k concurrent players is insanity in the vanilla world. There was no zone mirroring back then so the zones would be easily overcrowded, especially the starting and the end ones.

Have you completly missed that a large group of wowplayers that has been advocating for blizzard hosted vanilla realms have been playing on privately hosted vanilla realms?

[Wiedzemir]

Have you completly missed that a large group of wowplayers that has been advocating for blizzard hosted vanilla realms have been playing on privately hosted vanilla realms?

There are these people. So? I'm pretty sure that, while like in any large group of people there are some with silly ideas, the majority don't want a private server with weird rates hosted by Blizzard. I also think that many of these people who play on private servers are going to be disappointed in the official Classic if it's going to be actual recreation of vanilla. It's evident even by this forum and the concepts people are often presenting, that these servers are rather inaccurate recreations.

[mikepic]

but at this point I wish they'd never announced it before it was ready to play...

In the thousands of posts about "Vanilla" this is my favorite line. Let's just be happy with what Blizzard offers and appreciate a little nostalgia in our lives.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

The game was so much better back when it sucked.

[Warrax]

Blizzard is making a NEW GAME out of old content, trying to mimic the old style and feel.

Blizzard never said that tho.

[Wiedzemir]

The game was so much better back when it sucked.

Reminds me of this image. Can be projected on the different types of people and their attitude towards vanilla.

[Storfan]

What are you going to do when suddenly people reach 60 and go Eastern Plaguelands, like 500+ of them at the same time. Because that's what's going to happen.

No it is not. I played on Nostalrius when it peaked at 15k players online (that's 3-5 times peak populations of retail vanilla servers) and it was crowded yes but not unplayably so. Most people online was either:

1. AFK in cities
2. Doing dungeons.
3. Battlegrounds
4. Traveling to dungeons

Open world wasnt "too bad". And I'm not even saying blizzard should put cap at 15k, all I'm saying is the world can support way more than original vanilla caps.

[urasim]

More toxic than it was in vanilla yes most definitely but that's mainly because the entire gaming community has gotten more toxic. It used to be a close nit nerd-shop, now gaming attracts a much wider audience. The plebs if you will

It hasn't gotten more toxic. It's gotten so much better... You'd know this if you played in classic. There was blacklists and "barrens chat" as a small example of the very many toxic behaviors of classic. Hell, I'd gank people and they'd log onto a horde character and I'd watch them type out pages of vile shit just laughing at them the entire time. That shit would get you banned nowadays. The internet was WAY worse back in the day.

Zero moral compass? I play vanilla private servers for lack of an official alternative. Not because I'm evil criminal scum.

Not exactly a good excuse to do something illegal. Yes, your moral compass is a bit fucked.

[zephid]

This is aimed at the people that want zero changes.

My example will be aimed at Alexsensual, who acts like a little spoiled brat when people talk of about QoL changes. The fact is though, that he is a hypocrite.

Watch his videos, here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0oKF-okwRk

You'll notice straight away his addons. We didn't have addons like this in vanilla (one example the UI for party and raid, the range checker didn't work in vanilla). He is already using QoL features in vanilla.

He also promotes addons like Questie.

Do you see this as hypocrisy as well?

It's true that we didn't have an accurate range checker in vanilla, but we did have addons that used the range of your spells to try to figure out the range to targets/party members. It wasn't as accurate as today's addons, but they gave an approximation.

[Wiedzemir]

No it is not. I played on Nostalrius when it peaked at 15k players online (that's 3-5 times peak populations of retail vanilla servers) and it was crowded yes but not unplayably so. Most people online was either:

1. AFK in cities
2. Doing dungeons.
3. Battlegrounds
4. Traveling to dungeons

Open world wasnt "too bad". And I'm not even saying blizzard should put cap at 15k, all I'm saying is the world can support way more than original vanilla caps.

I really don't think that nostalrius is a good example as any other private server. There was no point to farm for something that wasn't absolutely necessary because everyone realized that the server can go out of business any moment. Also, in order to support the higher population Blizzard would have to adjust spawn rates of literally everything and that can have negative consequences. However, I think that it might be a good idea for them to gradually rise the cap after a while to avoid the situation when the entire crowd is concentrated in the few starting areas at the same time, this measure can alleviate the issue of the spawn rates somewhat.

- - - Updated - - -

It hasn't gotten more toxic. It's gotten so much better... You'd know this if you played in classic. There was blacklists and "barrens chat" as a small example of the very many toxic behaviors of classic. Hell, I'd gank people and they'd log onto a horde character and I'd watch them type out pages of vile shit just laughing at them the entire time. That shit would get you banned nowadays. The internet was WAY worse back in the day.

How did they do it exactly considering that it was not possible to create an opposite faction character on a PvP realm?

[Akka]

I wouldn't say so, you're just being a dick.

So YOU come here to troll, and it makes ME a dick ?

[Tekkommo]

So YOU come here to troll, and it makes ME a dick ?

I didn't come here to troll, I came here to point out the hypocrisy of some vanilla players.

I didn't call you a dick, I called trolls a dick.

[Wiedzemir]

I didn't come here to troll, I came here to point out the hypocrisy of some vanilla players.

It's surprising that you could type as one sentence as these are not mutually exclusive things.

[urasim]

How did they do it exactly considering that it was not possible to create an opposite faction character on a PvP realm?

Multiple accounts. Had a few friends that would raid with horde and alliance. Way to hardcore for me.

Had many friends who were alliance and I knew the account info to, and could log into their accounts at anytime they went offline. So that's also an option.

[AuthurDent]

This is aimed at the people that want zero changes.

My example will be aimed at Alexsensual, who acts like a little spoiled brat when people talk of about QoL changes. The fact is though, that he is a hypocrite.

Watch his videos, here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0oKF-okwRk

You'll notice straight away his addons. We didn't have addons like this in vanilla (one example the UI for party and raid, the range checker didn't work in vanilla). He is already using QoL features in vanilla.

He also promotes addons like Questie.

Do you see this as hypocrisy as well?

Customization/addons were a thing then... those addons ARE from back then. Customizing your UI was an option and should still be. If Blizzard adds "their QoL improvements" then you don;t have choice.

Wanting Classic to be released like Vanilla is a valid position.

I can't stand Alex either... but I agree with Classic being released just as it was. It isn't being released because current players begged and went to private servers, this isn't an opportunity for them to get to play the old content with the new WoW engine... it is being created to serve that part of the community that does not care for the direction WoW has went... and wants to be able to start fresh with the WoW they love.


What I'm really interested in... is your term "aim"... how you are aiming your post... do you feel like you need to attack somebody today?

[Wiedzemir]

Multiple accounts. Had a few friends that would raid with horde and alliance. Way to hardcore for me.

Sure there were people with multiple accounts but not that many, you make it sound like it was a common place thing.

[Storfan]

It hasn't gotten more toxic. It's gotten so much better... You'd know this if you played in classic. There was blacklists and "barrens chat" as a small example of the very many toxic behaviors of classic. Hell, I'd gank people and they'd log onto a horde character and I'd watch them type out pages of vile shit just laughing at them the entire time. That shit would get you banned nowadays. The internet was WAY worse back in the day.



Not exactly a good excuse to do something illegal. Yes, your moral compass is a bit fucked.

I guess your experience of vanilla differs from mine then. I played a dwarf paladin on first Beta in 2004 and then on Al'Akir EU as an orc warrior in retail vanilla. In my experience the gaming community across all games, genres and titles has gotten alot more toxic, so this isnt uniqe to the private server community.

I really don't think that nostalrius is a good example as any other private server. There was no point to farm for something that wasn't absolutely necessary because everyone realized that the server can go out of business any moment. Also, in order to support the higher population Blizzard would have to adjust spawn rates of literally everything and that can have negative consequences. However, I think that it might be a good idea for them to gradually rise the cap after a while to avoid the situation when the entire crowd is concentrated in the few starting areas at the same time, this measure can alleviate the issue of the spawn rates somewhat.

- - - Updated - - -

How did they do it exactly considering that it was not possible to create an opposite faction character on a PvP realm?

People still farmed, assured in the fact that blizzard had no "actual" legal clout to affect them. As stated before, admins only shut it down freely as a token of good will and to gain an audience with blizzard, which they also got. The spawnrates was done by a system of "dynamic rates" going up and down depending on population in any specific zone at any specific time.

Private servers can do pretty much anything because they dont run on actual blizzard source code but their own code.

[AuthurDent]

The game was so much better back when it sucked.

Odd way of putting it... but yes... I agree. The things that sucked gave you things to overcome.... then you were rewarded for it.

The game in general had a better effort/time/reward ratio. and progression meant something. Whether it was leveling professions, your character, adding talent points, getting a new piece of green gear, making gold, earning reputation.

It was all terribly good. Now everything is literally handed to you. Missed out on anything.. no problem.. here... here is some more catchup gear that completely makes the content prior meaningless. If they felt their content was fun, they wouldn;t have to give everyone ways to bypass it.

And yet they feel flying does just that? lol

[Chaelexi]

Vanilla had some scary addon options that would basically play the game for you. Some of the early bots were really just addons that you installed, as for people complaining about range checkers not being in Vanilla, there were many range checkers that were coded and that worked(made C-thun entrance easier). The issues were that early on Addon were not all located in one location like Curse gaming and you would have to go find them.