Antorus is extremely undertuned (normal/heroic)

[Softbottom]

Normal and Heroic isn't hard when you complete it in the first week of release...

[Konteil]

personally i think the tuning is fine. out the door the tuning is teh best its been so far. mythic will be insane i bet. but normal and heroic are tuned well.

[threads]

difficulty is fine for norm/heroic. if it's too easy for you do mythic.

[VyersReaver]

That's one of the worst charts I've ever seen... literally no explanation of anything (also also kin'Garoth should be the hardest lol)

That being said, yes, it is easier than NH for example, but who cares? I do very much enjoy this raid (unlike ToS) and having fun is what matters, not plain difficulty. And for the most part, Antorus really has a good balance.

Dafuq? You are that one noob who dies to the lazor, aren't you?

[Accendor]

Its interesting to see people talking about N/H as being too easy... that's what Mythic is for. Depending on your progression from the previous tier, N/H haven't been overly challenging for a while.

as long as mythic has a fixed raid size many guilds will only do heroic, even if they have the skill to clear at least 50% of the raids on mythic. The hardest parts in raiding mythic are not killing the bosses but maintaining a 20 people rooster.
Nobody says heroic should be like mythic, but when most guilds that are interested in the content clear it in week 2, that is a problem.

[Ishayu]

Tomb was hard for the wrong reasons... You absolutely needed at least 3 immunity soaks for H KJ... Not every heroic guild had that and it was horribly overtuned for smaller groups. Antorus doesn't have any immunity soaks and people are overgeared. I would doubt any guild that at least cleared H Tomb wasn't at least 940.

We were like iLvL 905 when we cleared Heroic ToS...

I really don't think Heroic ToS was overtuned. It's okay for Heroic raids to get a few bosses that are hard. In fact I think the last few bosses of Heroic should be harder than the first few of Mythic. The main challenge of early mythic should simply be getting a stable roster of 20 people (which is not easy!)

[Deleted]

the storm rng

what rng, just don't stack like idiots???

[Jastall]

Personally I think it's a mistake Blizzard is giving world bosses and m+ weekly chest upgrade so early that anyone who didn't unsub had enough time to collect at least half a set of 930-935 items if not more, that's above what hc TOS awarded. This is the first expansion where "catch up gear" isn't a "catch up" it's "skip half the tier and then get ahead of heroic raiders", because in earlier expansions catch up would be released together with new raid so you would never get head to toe decked for the raid opening. You can go to normal and barely need anything (except tier bonuses, strong trinkets and maybe relics) because welfare gear already got you settled. This is in my opinion wrong. Normal should feel rewarding to a casual player.

Well, it's not just that. High TF M+ gear is not as valuable as it might seem given that almost everyone has 6 slots tied up by legendaries and tier sets, and dungeon trinkets usually aren't the very best for most specs; it doesn't matter if I get a 965 pants with Versa/Crit out of my cache, the stats are terrible for me and I'll never replace my legendaries anyway.

The point is more that we saw a massive growth of power during Tomb thanks to its very powerful set bonuses, and the Crucible was also probably a bigger upgrade than Blizzard intended. This, combined with natural scaling from higher ilvl, basically makes us already very powerful going into this new tier in a way I haven't seen since I started raiding seriously. I do not remember going out of BRF and smashing HFC that hard, or demolishing Tomb after leaving Nighthold.

[TSThrillwell]

That chart is awful but I agree with the overall sentiment. We did zero prep until the day of, and even then very little; I was sick so one of our tanks took RL; we had company so my wife, one of our top dps in the small 10-15 raid group, sat the first week; we raid four total hours in the week; and one of our MTs had to ditch for Argus with a dps swapping specs and filling in and it was still a one shot.

We probably shouldn't have cleared at all the first week, at least with all the handicaps we had. We haven't done heroic yet because of how little we raid but yeah. I'm hoping it's somewhat challenging considering how long we're going to have this content for.

[Dormie]

Normal and Heroic isn't hard when you complete it in the first week of release...

It isn't hard when PUGS complete it the first week of release.

[Armakus]

Who cares... It's heroic and normal.

This, mostly. Normal is the new LFR.

[cparle87]

I'm curious to see his chart, but not curious enough to dare to turn off my adblockers to be able to see it.

[Daffan]

WoW is made for :feelgood: reward cycle gameplay now, so it's not surprising it went like this.

[Dormie]

This, mostly. Normal is the new LFR.

Stop giving me reasons to do normal and heroic and I'll stop caring. As a healer I shouldn't be going into heroic second week and doing more DPS than heals.
And if that's true, scrap LFR and make normal queable.

[Protean]

tfw you pull a chart outta your ass and leave thread when people call you on it.

EDIT: Too late, and 180 wipes.

180 wipes on KJ hc and still thinks the new raid is too easy. Sounds like it must be really easy then.

[Armakus]

Stop giving me reasons to do normal and heroic and I'll stop caring. As a healer I shouldn't be going into heroic second week and doing more DPS than heals.
And if that's true, scrap LFR and make normal queable.

"true progression" takes place in Mythic now, I really don't see a problem with the current raid set up. I'm reserving my judgment for when we see how difficult mythic is.

[RobertMugabe]

Dafuq? You are that one noob who dies to the lazor, aren't you?

No? But whatever helps you sleep at night lmao...

[Zinstorm]

Well seeing as they buffed Argus the unmaker I think blizzard is agreeing that they may have slipped on the tuning of that boss a little.

[Dormie]

"true progression" takes place in Mythic now, I really don't see a problem with the current raid set up. I'm reserving my judgment for when we see how difficult mythic is.

All I'm asking for is to literally have something to do as a healer if they're going to incentivize running normal and heroic.

[Kikazz]

what rng, just don't stack like idiots???

not chain lightning i mean the 1.5m damage per second and having to stand in a void zone to avoid all the damage,

and the spawn on them is random, can get all 6 on one side, and sometimes away from your raid stack point.