Millennials aren't as smart about money as they think

[Animalhouse]

This was made obvious the other day in the "is it better to buy or rent" thread.

All the millenials who think renting is smart...

[belfpala]

Student loans are this countries next bubble. Enroll in college and they'll let you take out as much as you want. Why? Because the loans are protected. (Meaning even if you file for bankruptcy... you'll still owe that money) There isn't a financial institution out there that will lend you money with no collateral. Why? Because it isn't good business. But for students, we do it. There is no guarantee, that even IF they graduate, that they are going to get a job, or that the degree they chose, will allow them to make enough money to pay back said loan(s). But what the fuck do they care... they are protected. Unless you die... they're gettin that money WITH interest.

Seriously, I can buy a house and fail my payments, then declare bankruptcy. But for my education, I have to die to get rid of the debt. I wonder what people think about this?

[Captain N]

Seriously, I can buy a house and fail my payments, then declare bankruptcy. But for my education, I have to die to get rid of the debt. I wonder what people think about this?

You know the answer to this. It's been posted here on these forums numerous times. Obviously if you can't get a job that pays for your education with a degree you picked the wrong degree and it's totally your own fault. (Sarcasm if it wasn't obvious)

[God Save The King]

Why? Because the loans are protected. (Meaning even if you file for bankruptcy... you'll still owe that money)

Just a small aside, you can get student loans discharged in a bankruptcy, it is just harder and you must prove it.

The second district 1987 case Brunner v. New York State Higher Educ. Servs. Corp set a precedent for discharging student loans. Generally you must show the court three things:

1. You cannot maintain, based on current income and expenses, a “minimal” standard of living for the yourself and the your dependents if you were forced to repay the student loans
2. You will unlikely be able to pay the loans for a significant portion of the repayment period
3. You have made good faith efforts to pay the loans

There are several examples, i.e. a fraudulent school, a degree that offered no real additional income, medical expenses, a career that did not offer substantial income but was otherwise worthwhile (i.e. teacher's aide or special educator), drug and alcoholism, most medical issues, and so on. The loans are not simply discharged with a normal bankruptcy, you have to make an appeal and provide evidence, but it is certainly doable.

[A dot Ham]

Just a small aside, you can get student loans discharged in a bankruptcy, it is just harder and you must prove it.

The second district 1987 case Brunner v. New York State Higher Educ. Servs. Corp set a precedent for discharging student loans. Generally you must show the court three things:

1. You cannot maintain, based on current income and expenses, a “minimal” standard of living for the yourself and the your dependents if you were forced to repay the student loans
2. You will unlikely be able to pay the loans for a significant portion of the repayment period
3. You have made good faith efforts to pay the loans

There are several examples, i.e. a fraudulent school, a degree that offered no real additional income, medical expenses, a career that did not offer substantial income but was otherwise worthwhile (i.e. teacher's aide or special educator), drug and alcoholism, most medical issues, and so on. The loans are not simply discharged with a normal bankruptcy, you have to make an appeal and provide evidence, but it is certainly doable.

That's incredibly dishonest of you, because it isn't as "doable" as you make it sound.

It will typically only apply to private loans, and only the portion(s) that were not used for tuition, such as living expenses, and other necessities.

The number of people making good faith efforts, that are also filing for bankruptcy are close to 0%.

[God Save The King]

That's incredibly dishonest of you, because it isn't as "doable" as you make it sound.

It will typically only apply to private loans, and only the portion(s) that were not used for tuition, such as living expenses, and other necessities.

The number of people making good faith efforts, that are also filing for bankruptcy are close to 0%.

Okay then. Feel free to find figures and show how "dishonest" I am. It's dishonest of you to say that the only way out of them is to die. That's an objectively false statement. 100% a lie.

---Update---

Here you go: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve...b_2416031.html

99.9% of people do not try to discharge their student loans. The ones that do, however, have a 40% success rate.

Sounds like if you have a legitimate reason, you have decent odds. Aka "doable"

[A dot Ham]

Okay then. Feel free to find figures and show how "dishonest" I am. It's dishonest of you to say that the only way out of them is to die. That's an objectively false statement. 100% a lie.

---Update---

Here you go: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve...b_2416031.html

99.9% of people do not try to discharge their student loans. The ones that do, however, have a 40% success rate.

Sounds like if you have a legitimate reason, you have decent odds. Aka "doable"

A huff post article? We need to have a little discussion in private about reliable sources.

Lets work this backwards since the facts are their... but in true huffpost fashion the facts are present askew.

According to this article 99.9% of those that file for bankruptcy don't actually include student loans in their filings.

Meaning that 0.1% actually do attempt to get them discharged or forgiven. 4/10 of THOSE are successful.

Bringing the grand total of discharged student loan debt to... drum roll please... 0.04% what was it I said? Next to 0%.

There are 44 million people in America with student loan debt... and according to this study 69,000 are eligible to have that debt discharged. Got a calculator on you? Or should I do the math for you?

[Mafic]

This was made obvious the other day in the "is it better to buy or rent" thread.

All the millenials who think renting is smart...

Renting is smart if you are 50 years or older and are flush with king cash. But I agree that if you are young it doesn't make sense, but home ownership is a lot of work and it does cost a lot of upfront money.

Then again being able to spend money and go on vacations while young is better than being old with bad knees and stuck in a hospital bed paying a hospital all your hard earned money.

[God Save The King]

A huff post article? We need to have a little discussion in private about reliable sources.

*rolls eyes* Clearly you didn't bother reading past the URL. If you had you'd have noticed the link to the study:

https://getoutofdebt.org/wp-content/...-id1894445.pdf

It comes from a well known Law Journal, written by a Harvard Law Graduate, currently pursuing his doctorate's in politics from Princeton. Huffington just reported on his findings.

No other outlet seems to have picked up this study, so feel free to read through it yourself. Unless Harvard is still too biased for you.

[THE Bigzoman]

Wait until boomers decide they no longer need credit or die. Average credit scores across all states will drop by at least 10 points.

[Kolbjorn]

This was made obvious the other day in the "is it better to buy or rent" thread.

All the millenials who think renting is smart...

There are quite a few variables actually. Some analysts think part of our economic problems are due to high rates of home ownership in areas with declining economic potential. The reason for this is that mortgage design and transaction costs in the U.S. isn't exactly biased towards the homeowner, so an individual can become trapped in their house, and unable to move.

The myth of "real estate always appreciates" is also misleading. In the real world, rent payments / mortgage payments track wage growth/inflation. In a world where cash is currently free, housing prices are at the highest they'll ever be. Are you sure you're not better off waiting for the fed rate to tick back up? (A cheaper house with a high rate mortgage is better than an expensive house with a low rate mortgage.... because you can refinance the high rate in the future, but not vice versa.)

There are way too many variables to say owning a home is always better.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Wow this is too bad. Maybe millenials should get more financial education before leaving highschool. It might help them to avoid financial issues in the future.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/14/mill...hey-think.html

And how did previous generations handle the monies? Many millennials became adults in the middle of a financial crisis caused by previous generations, FYI.

[A dot Ham]

*rolls eyes* Clearly you didn't bother reading past the URL. If you had you'd have noticed the link to the study:

https://getoutofdebt.org/wp-content/...-id1894445.pdf

It comes from a well known Law Journal, written by a Harvard Law Graduate, currently pursuing his doctorate's in politics from Princeton. Huffington just reported on his findings.

No other outlet seems to have picked up this study, so feel free to read through it yourself. Unless Harvard is still too biased for you.

If you kept reading... I reorganized the facts for you so they are more factual and less flashy. No one is going to read an article that says 0.04% of bankruptcies successfully discharged student loan debt. 4/10 gets way more attention.

[StationaryHawk]

JFC LOL arguing over who is a millennial and who isn't seriously what the fuck who gives a rats ass, If you were born after 1980 you are a god damn millennial LOL!

I name for a group of people born during a certain time, not a fucking social club.

So asking how old someone is so as to identify whether they were born during the specified time is perfectly valid. What was the problem here?

[Queen of Hamsters]

This was made obvious the other day in the "is it better to buy or rent" thread.

All the millenials who think renting is smart...

All the others who think that they buy their own house, cars, holiday home and other luxuries... By taking out loans...
If my finances are shot to hell due to a financial crisis, I won't lose my home. But we've got protection as tennants here, I'd imagine it's less secure to people living in countries where the landlord can put anyone on the street based upon arbitrary reasons.

I'm renting until I can buy a home cash, free of mortgage. If that ain't being smart with finances... well, only crooks in suits working at banks would say it's not smart.

[Doctor Amadeus]

So asking how old someone is so as to identify whether they were born during the specified time is perfectly valid. What was the problem here?

No not that just I’m a Xennial thing is silly.

[Deleted]

Wow this is too bad. Maybe millenials should get more financial education before leaving highschool. It might help them to avoid financial issues in the future.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/14/mill...hey-think.html

These stories get run frequently and are designed to make people think societal problems are the fault of victims. People get into debt because they have to.

"Enough money to weather shocks"-Jesus, who the fuck writes this stuff?

[Gatsbybutters]

Any articles with the word millennial in the title are a bunch of bullshit stats pulled out of someone's ass. All those words on that article are meaningless and only exist to get people to click on the ads between the paragraphs.

[A dot Ham]

Its not an objective lie... it blatantly says that a whopping 69,000 may be eligible to have their loans discharged. Of the 44 million of us with student loan debt... that's basically none of us.

Read your own shit before slapping down some ridiculous article you found on your 1 second google search, and DEFINITELY don't pretend like you actually thumbed through the entire study (YOUR SOURCE I MIGHT ADD)... because you CLEARLY did not. mmmkay Mr. Moderator.

Its page 524 btw... if you ctrl+f "69" there are 15 results its 14/15.

Given that thirty-nine percent of the debtors in my sample
received a discharge, these 69,000 debtors would have been good candidates
to obtain relief. Nonetheless, less than three hundred actually
attempted to discharge their student loans. Consider that again. There were
69,000 student loan debtors in bankruptcy who would have had a good
chance to discharge their student loans, but less than three hundred even
attempted to do so.

Lets just assume for a second that 69,000 is out of the ~800,000 that file each year. Which is about 8.62%, maintaining a success rate of 40% (4/10) you get a whopping 3.44% of people who have student loan debt, who also file for bankruptcy, who would be successful in receiving SOME relief or forgiveness for student loan debt.

You're just really barking up the wrong tree right now. I know its difficult for you moderators given your egos... but a simple apology will suffice.

[Super Kami Dende]

They really aren't. In my group of friends maybe like 2 others than myself actually save or invest properly. Constantly when people are like "Wait how did you save so much money" I just tell them I'm not an impulse buyer that buys worthless shit 24/7.

You join the horrible attention spans and idiots "needs" to stay relevant and you basically figure out why millennials have no money.

I've found that my Female Friends are also far worse at managing Money than my Male Friends.