What is the logic behind saying Piracy is stealing?

[pateuvasiliu]

So I don't really care about your opinion on whether piracy is evil or whatever, I am simply asking what people have in their heads when they say Piracy is Stealing.


When I steal your purse you lose something you bought and spent money on. When I steal your car, same shit. I am gaining something and you are losing something, which you will need to spend money on to get back/another. Thus I am causing you a loss.


If I am to pirate a TV show, they lose nothing. First of all, it's likely the Network that airs it doesn't air it in my country at all ( such as Walking Dead, for instance, I think it's US/Canada only. Anyhow it doesn't air in my country ).

So honestly if I pirate/torrent Walking Dead how could anyone accuse me of stealing when there's no option to get it?

Even if there was, I wasn't going to ever spend money on it anyway. So the company still loses nothing, because my potential money spent on their product goes from 0 to 0.

Then let's talk WoW private servers.

Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK haven't existed in 10 years on official servers. How would playing those constitute stealing? I would never spend money on Blizzard's post Cata products, how am I causing them a loss of money if I play Vanilla on some private server?

I am not.

I feel like a lot of people want to pat themselves on the back and tell themselves " I'm such a good person for spending money on this " when the reality is that while you do support the developers, people torrenting it would've likely never spent on it in the first place. At least they're getting some free publicity when said people make youtube videos or post in the games' forums, increasing traffic.

But had said torrenters never torrented that game, nothing would've changed. It's that " if no one hears a tree fall, does it really make sound? " thing.

I don't see the difference between one dude buying a show and then putting it on torrent for others to use and me inviting over 10 people to watch Game of Thrones on my cable TV. In both cases people watch it for free. What's the deal here?

[McFuu]

What is this 2007?

[EyelessCrow]

I feel like anything anyone says, you will just do mental gymnastics to get around in your head. So...what's the point?

[Machismo]

The mentality is simple, you are taking something that is not yours against the permission of the owner. You can try and quibble over whether it's theft, or simply copyright infringement, but it still makes you a shitty person for doing it.

[Moralgy]

The argument is generally "they would have made money off that download from a legit source, so you stole money from them". Not a fan cause it ends up regulating sharing things, which is what I view "pirating" as being in all honesty.

[Evangeliste]

Well in terms of WoW and legacy servers. They clearly were playing with the idea for a long time, hence why they went for the copyright infringement. If those private servers stayed up, then that is a loss of money. They acted early because it will make it easier to have the fans come back to a legit server provided by Blizzard.
It is their game. It's equivalent of someone driving your car. It's your car but you can't use it or say rent it out if someone else has it.

As for the TV shows, I think this comes down to places like say Netflix or box sets in physical sense. Netflix pay a fee to have that show on their platform, it's not down to them if the country completely restrict it, they can't go above or beneath it so you shouldn't legally have any other right to access it it.
In the end, if you pirate the show, that company who made it lose out on things like Netflix because in the end, the show cost them to make it. It's exactly like the cinema. You purchased your seat to view their product. Just as much as you get paid at your job to work for a company.

Money in the end.

I agree with you that the term 'stealing' seems completely out of place. It's jarring to me using that word but I think the problem is there isn't really a word that fits it any better. It would be like calling a fart, a pumping smelly sound before making the word fart... Just we haven't found the word fart so pumping smelly sound is just used.

[Pyro1990]

This argument has been done to death on this forum. Why not just use the search function to look at one of the miriad of references to the subject.

[chazus]

In most legal/IP law circles, preventing a potential sale is considered IP theft.

While you aren't physically taking something from them, you are taking their revenue (or potential revenue). Just because YOU can't get it in your area, doesn't mean someone else isn't, and if they can get it, and pirate it, they're still stealing money, effectively. Your case doesn't make it not true.

From the WoW perspective, they private server people are very much stealing something that they are not allowed to have (The server info). Playing on the servers isn't illegal, but owning/running the servers is.

And again, it isn't a case of your anecdotal experience. There are plenty of people who COULD play wow, but dont want to pay for it, so they play on private servers. That's very much taking revenue as well. It's just a matter of protecting the IP.

[Tico]

If I am to pirate a TV show, they lose nothing. First of all, it's likely the Network that airs it doesn't air it in my country at all ( such as Walking Dead, for instance, I think it's US/Canada only. Anyhow it doesn't air in my country ).

So honestly if I pirate/torrent Walking Dead how could anyone accuse me of stealing when there's no option to get it?

It seems logical reasoning to me.

[Deleted]

Same logic that will get you thrown out of a cinema if you don't have a ticket, even if there is empty seats that hasn't been bought.

[Evangeliste]

It seems logical reasoning to me.

Doesn't mean you can't get access to platforms that do have it, or rent/buy the box set. Revenue can be generated in several places nowadays, it's very silly to pretend otherwise. You probably shop in several places or look round at prices... those are different platforms, but I have Tesco here for buying a Christmas Tree in England... doesn't mean someone can't get a Christmas Tree in America at Costco.

[Machismo]

I love how hard people try and rationalize and justify their actions. People will go to great lengths to convince themselves that they are not shitty people.

[pateuvasiliu]

In most legal/IP law circles, preventing a potential sale is considered IP theft.

While you aren't physically taking something from them, you are taking their revenue (or potential revenue). Just because YOU can't get it in your area, doesn't mean someone else isn't, and if they can get it, and pirate it, they're still stealing money, effectively. Your case doesn't make it not true.

From the WoW perspective, they private server people are very much stealing something that they are not allowed to have (The server info). Playing on the servers isn't illegal, but owning/running the servers is.

And again, it isn't a case of your anecdotal experience. There are plenty of people who COULD play wow, but dont want to pay for it, so they play on private servers. That's very much taking revenue as well. It's just a matter of protecting the IP.

Blizzard isn't using that, though. And they aren't ''stealing'', they are copying it. Blizzard still has that data if they ever want to bring it back, as with Vanilla.

Your case doesn't make it not true.

What's the difference between watching it live on your friend's TV or torrenting it the next day? They still get 0 money from you.

[Airlick]

It's stealing whether you like it or not. It's not stealing physical property, no, and yes, the owners of the intellectual property likely don't lose anything by pirates stealing it. But just because you wouldn't have paid for it even if it wasn't "available" for free, doesn't mean you're not stealing. You didn't pay for access to the material, which you were required to do if you wanted to get it. It means you're stealing.

Whether it is harmful to the developers or not is a whole different question. It's pretty much proven that cracking down on pirates doesn't increase sales by noticeable margin, since the pirates are unlikely to pay for something regardless of the availability. Then you get examples like Witcher games that didn't really have any DRM to speak of and still sell like crazy, because people saw the game is worth it and wanted to support the developers.

Paying for games/movies is definitely the moral thing to do. I'd say pirating them can be excused in a few cases - if the game launches with a huge price tag and no free access so you can't check if you like it or not, as long as you do want to try it out and buy it eventually. Or if something just isn't available in your country. Last scenario, for me, would be pirating cash grabs like AC or CoD series, but then again, I simply don't play them because I hate them and the developers' policies. I can imagine pirating them just to stick it to Ubisoft or EA, though.

I personally don't remember the last time I've pirated a game, with so many discounts, F2P games and dozens of worthwhile olders games available, there really is no need for it. You don't have to experience everything on day one, or on the day DRM gets broken.

[pateuvasiliu]

I love how hard people try and rationalize and justify their actions. People will go to great lengths to convince themselves that they are not shitty people.

I like how you didn't even read the post.

or rent/buy the box set.

DVDs usually come what, a few months after the season's done. By that point you'll be spoiled to hell and back.

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It's stealing whether you like it or not. It's not stealing physical property, no, and yes, the owners of the intellectual property likely don't lose anything by pirates stealing it. But just because you wouldn't have paid for it even if it wasn't "available" for free, doesn't mean you're not stealing. You didn't pay for access to the material, which you were required to do if you wanted to get it. It means you're stealing.

Whether it is harmful to the developers or not is a whole different question. It's pretty much proven that cracking down on pirates doesn't increase sales by noticeable margin, since the pirates are unlikely to pay for something regardless of the availability. Then you get examples like Witcher games that didn't really have any DRM to speak of and still sell like crazy, because people saw the game is worth it and wanted to support the developers.

Paying for games/movies is definitely the moral thing to do. I'd say pirating them can be excused in a few cases - if the game launches with a huge price tag and no free access so you can't check if you like it or not, as long as you do want to try it out and buy it eventually. Or if something just isn't available in your country. Last scenario, for me, would be pirating cash grabs like AC or CoD series, but then again, I simply don't play them because I hate them and the developers' policies. I can imagine pirating them just to stick it to Ubisoft or EA, though.

At worst it's copying, not stealing.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The mentality is simple, you are taking something that is not yours against the permission of the owner. You can try and quibble over whether it's theft, or simply copyright infringement, but it still makes you a shitty person for doing it.

Your not taking any thing they still have it.

[Deleted]

At worst it's copying, not stealing.

You might not want to go down that road, because that could land you a way bigger fine and in worst case prison time, than actually stealing it

[pateuvasiliu]

You might not want to go down that road, because that could land you a way bigger fine and in worst case prison time, than actually stealing it

Everyone torrents here. Pretty sure the President has a cracked windows at home.


You know what's theft? Paying 60$ for a game when the minimum salary's under 400$ a month.

[chazus]

Blizzard isn't using that, though. And they aren't ''stealing'', they are copying it. Blizzard still has that data if they ever want to bring it back, as with Vanilla.

So let me ask you this.

If someone hacks your computer.. and gets access to all your passwords and everything. Would you not consider your information 'stolen'? Is that not a concern to you?

What's the difference between watching it live on your friend's TV or torrenting it the next day? They still get 0 money from you.

Nothing, technically. Which is why there are technically laws about letting other people watch it in some places, as they didn't pay for it. Furthermore, watching it on your friend's TV still gets them money. Torrenting does not.

[Machismo]

I like how you didn't even read the post.



DVDs usually come what, a few months after the season's done. By that point you'll be spoiled to hell and back.

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At worst it's copying, not stealing.

I read it, it's the same old shit every time. People want to try and justify shitty actions.

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Your not taking any thing they still have it.

And yet, they still took something.