What is the logic behind saying Piracy is stealing?

[Machismo]

How is it on a torrent site without the owner uploading it?

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In your country, maybe.

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It's not illegal though

The owner of most digital software and media is the creator. People pay to lease the chance to view/use it.

[pateuvasiliu]

Except they do lose 10,000 views, or whatever. instead of just that one friend. That's.. kind of the point. One is paid for, but 99,999 aren't.


I said 'passwords and everything'. Bank account info. SS info. personal info. Everything. Lets assume they aren't going to drain your bank account, but are you totally okay with some random dude having all of your personal/federal info?

Assuming it can never be used against me? Why should I care?

I doubt I'm the only person in the world who knows my bank account info.

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The owner of most digital software and media is the creator. People pay to lease the chance to view/use it.

When you pay to view/use it you can also show it to others.

[LiiLoSNK]

It's not illegal though

Please use your head before posting. An example of illegal copying would be copying to sell. That is pretty illegal.

[Sorshen]

When you pay to view/use it you can also show it to others.

Yes but they count that as losing money. As if everyone involved would purchase it! Mind blowing logic from the copyright industry.

[Machismo]

Assuming it can never be used against me? Why should I care?

I doubt I'm the only person in the world who knows my bank account info.

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When you pay to view/use it you can also show it to others.

Not necessarily, it depends on the agreement. There are almost always contractual restrictions on reproducing, copying, or uploading such things.

[Youn]

Look at me I'm a genius! Now onto more pressing matters, why is everyone freaking out about Y2K?

Because mainframe computers saved year as a 2 digit number and 99 rolled over to 00. This should become an issue again in 2043. When dates that were stored as integers roll over to Jan 1st, 1900.

[Deleted]

Piracy = illegal copying.
/thread

Look at me I'm a genius! Now onto more pressing matters, why is everyone freaking out about Y2K?

Yeah I dunno why everyone was afraid of some SOuth Korean boyband. They seem pretty harmless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkDU4cCNGyA

[Machismo]

I haven’t tried to justify any thing I’ve flat out stated it’s not moral. Fact is it’s not theft and simply doing something umoral doesn’t make some one a bad person unless it’s something huge like rape murder ect.

Since morals are largely subjective, I get to say that a person who is selfish, and take s things that do not belong to him is a shitty person. Of course, in Alabama, a middle-aged man trying to sleep with teenage girls is apparently not a shitty person. I'm glad I don't have the same morals as people like that.

[Deleted]

How is it on a torrent site without the owner uploading it?

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In your country, maybe.

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It's not illegal though

What country do you live in where torrenting copyrighted material isn't illegal?

[Fooliecoolie]

OP, just live with the fact you are a thief.

[Scathbais]

Everyone torrents here. Pretty sure the President has a cracked windows at home.


You know what's theft? Paying 60$ for a game when the minimum salary's under 400$ a month.

So if someone is poor and can't afford a certain type of entertainment, they should have the right to steal it?

Sound logic there

[TexasRules]

Oh my god, sorry that was so funny.

Taking pride in having ISPs that spy on you and then thinking anyone who doesn't is some basement dweller.

Absolutely cute.

Your $400 salary made me think you live with yoru parents, I doubt you have a basement...most homes in Texas do not.

I did not see you defend your hive mentality about illegal activities nor deny that you live with your parents. I see why you think you are entitled to take whatever you want and not have to pay for it.

[pateuvasiliu]

Your $400 salary made me think you live with yoru parents, I doubt you have a basement...most homes in Texas do not.

I did not see you defend your hive mentality about illegal activities nor deny that you live with your parents. I see why you think you are entitled to take whatever you want and not have to pay for it.

It might be shocking to you but a lot of countries don't have the same money as the US. Though you can perfectly have a normal living with the salaries here.

You just can't buy foreign stuff since it tends to keep the price it has overseas.

that you live with your parents.

I've been living away from home for 3 and a half years now, ever since I left for uni.

I know, shocking. You Americans sometimes stick around since you have no money to get an education. In the civilised world it's free.

Sucks to be you, I guess. But tell me more about that basement you're posting from. Got any cool Anime posters?

[Video Games]

So let me ask you this.

If someone hacks your computer.. and gets access to all your passwords and everything. Would you not consider your information 'stolen'? Is that not a concern to you?


Nothing, technically. Which is why there are technically laws about letting other people watch it in some places, as they didn't pay for it. Furthermore, watching it on your friend's TV still gets them money. Torrenting does not.

I was gonna say idk, but i guess you bring up a good point. Still not gonna stop me from saving money though.

[Scathbais]

I haven’t tried to justify any thing I’ve flat out stated it’s not moral. Fact is it’s not theft and simply doing something umoral doesn’t make some one a bad person unless it’s something huge like rape murder ect.

You can't make up your own facts to justify stealing. The law is pretty clear on the fact that content creators own their content whether it be physical (like a game you purchase in a store on a bluray disk) or digital (like a game you download directly to your PC). Just like you can't walk into GameStop and decide to take a game off the shelf because "clearly no one bought it and it wouldn't be sold anyway". It is still theft no matter how you try to justify your actions.

[WinningOne]

It's very simple. They made it. It's theirs. They get to decide who uses it and who doesn't. If you don't like it, tough taco's. Stealing isn't about the damage they suffer. It's about you making decisions which you don't have the legal authority to make. It isn't yours. Leave it alone. You know, like when you were two and your mom told you not to touch stuff at the store? Same thing.

[pateuvasiliu]

The philosophical discussion doesn't really interest me, the law does. In many places the downloading of stuff without first paying for it is considered illegal, regardless of what they call it; stealing, pirating, illegally downloading, etc...

To your point, @pateuvasiliu about shows not being available right away, and only being available in box sets many weeks or months later, therefore justifying pirating it. That's an argument about instant gratification being a reasonable justification for doing it. Which is a ludicrous argument. It's functionally the same thing as saying I can't afford it for many weeks or months...so I'm just going to steal it now so I can watch it now.

Greed and a lack of self control are not remotely close to a good enough justification for doing something illegal.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...eal-to-the-Law


Piracy isn't theft, anyhow. That's my issue. It's.. copyright infringement, at worst. And not illegal in a lot of places at best.

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It's very simple. They made it. It's theirs. They get to decide who uses it and who doesn't. If you don't like it, tough taco's. Stealing isn't about the damage they suffer. It's about you making decisions which you don't have the legal authority to make. It isn't yours. Leave it alone. You know, like when you were two and your mom told you not to touch stuff at the store? Same thing.

If you break something in the store they lose money. If you torrent they don't.

Ez logik.

[Katchii]

Assuming it can never be used against me? Why should I care?

I doubt I'm the only person in the world who knows my bank account info.

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When you pay to view/use it you can also show it to others.

Show yes, make copies for, no. That's what copyright is, you're not allowed to make a copy for anything other than personal use (and even then it's dependent on the law) without the expressed, and usually written, permission of the owner.

That's what pirating is, the unlawful copying of something without expressed written permission of the owner. Regardless of what you call, it is against copyright law (I'm not going to pretend I know laws everywhere so I'll qualify that with saying "in many countries" rather than everywhere.)

[Unhinged]

I love how hard people try and rationalize and justify their actions. People will go to great lengths to convince themselves that they are not shitty people.

It may be wrong but I would rather do it than give these corporations any money. 99% od tye sbit tgey pump our is nust formulaic shit. Look at Marvel movies, same basic story and music every time. Disney is doing it's best to destroy and sjw Star Wars. Good movies are few and far between these days.

[Jtbrig7390]

In most legal/IP law circles, preventing a potential sale is considered IP theft.

While you aren't physically taking something from them, you are taking their revenue (or potential revenue). Just because YOU can't get it in your area, doesn't mean someone else isn't, and if they can get it, and pirate it, they're still stealing money, effectively. Your case doesn't make it not true.

From the WoW perspective, they private server people are very much stealing something that they are not allowed to have (The server info). Playing on the servers isn't illegal, but owning/running the servers is.

And again, it isn't a case of your anecdotal experience. There are plenty of people who COULD play wow, but dont want to pay for it, so they play on private servers. That's very much taking revenue as well. It's just a matter of protecting the IP.

See the issue I have with this argument tho is that I can lend someone a Book,Movie,Game and this logic can apply to it. Also company's can't prove a loss in sell and haven't been about to for as long as the internet has been around.

(To be clear I am nether for or against piracy) I understand the argument on both sides but I feel the Pro-Piracy side has a stronger argument.