Trump announcing on Weds that USA recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

[Worvon]

How about the US stops giving money to that terrorist "nation" instead? Would be alot more peace in the world if they didn't have the funding to blow up Palestine and the others they invaded.

[Aehl]

Israel has committed atrocities the governmentiself... not some "kidnappers" but the government.

Im sorry I dont seem to remember the Israelis murdering Arab athletes - Munich 1972

Hijacking aircraft and murdering passengers - PFLP / PLO

The stated goal of HAMAS is the destruction of Israel.

[Jeezy911]

Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
Are you trying to get me to argue for pro Saudi/U.S. relations? Sorry, not going to happen.

No NO that might take some honest posting from you.
/hearty laugh
And no one expects that.

Yea, not really interested in blindly following party line political stances to keep up with the hipsters. That's more of a leftist sheep thing. PoundsignMETOO

[Themius]

Im sorry I dont seem to remember the Israelis murdering Arab athletes - Munich 1972

Hijacking aircraft and murdering passengers - PFLP / PLO

The stated goal of HAMAS is the destruction of Israel.

Were those purported by the government itself or by a radical group?

I do recall Israel telling Palestinians to evacuate to x place to then turn around and flatten x place with many civilians there as well.. that's where they told them to go. I also recall them destroying water cleaning facilities and electricity and bombing markets.

[Kalador]

Im sorry I dont seem to remember the Israelis murdering Arab athletes - Munich 1972

Hijacking aircraft and murdering passengers - PFLP / PLO

The stated goal of HAMAS is the destruction of Israel.

Sabra and Shatila massacre is a good example of atrocities on the other side...

Both side of this conflict have blood on their hands... denying that is denying reality

[Aehl]

Were those purported by the government itself or by a radical group?

I do recall Israel telling Palestinians to evacuate to x place to then turn around and flatten x place with many civilians there as well.. that's where they told them to go. I also recall them destroying water cleaning facilities and electricity and bombing markets.

Yassir Arafat was the head of the PLO / PFLP so yes. He was the "government".

Read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...uicide_attacks

[Molis]

Somehow Someway this must make Trump money.

No other reason that I can figure out

[Sky High]

Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
Are you trying to get me to argue for pro Saudi/U.S. relations? Sorry, not going to happen.



Yea, not really interested in blindly following party line political stances to keep up with the hipsters. That's more of a leftist sheep thing. PoundsignMETOO

Congratz, on totally missing the point of my sarcasm. Notice I’ve criticized our relations to SA in a previous post (which you of course conveniently ignored). so, no I wasn’t, just making a prediction on how you’d handle this conversation, which you, of course, fulfilled spectacularly. /hands you a banana sticker

[Aehl]

Sabra and Shatila massacre is a good example of atrocities on the other side...

Both side of this conflict have blood on their hands... denying that is denying reality

Entebbe. TWA. Munich. Black September. The PFLP . Al Fatah. The Fedayeen. Suicide attacks. Bombings. Hijackings. All long before many of you were even born.

The day Israel was created the Arabs tried to destroy it. From day one.

HAMAS will never renounce violence.

Israel will never surrender nor should they.

Anyone who thinks that there has ever been any chance of a peaceful settlement is ignoring decades of repeated attempts and repeated failures.

Israel has known from day one that they cannot negotiate with people who want you dead and will never look for a peaceful settlement

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/may/23/israel3

The proposals included the establishment of a demilitarised Palestinian state on some 92% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip, with some territorial compensation for the Palestinians from pre-1967 Israeli territory; the dismantling of most of the settlements and the concentration of the bulk of the settlers inside the 8% of the West Bank to be annexed by Israel; the establishment of the Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy "functional autonomy"; Palestinian sovereignty over half the Old City of Jerusalem (the Muslim and Christian quarters) and "custodianship," though not sovereignty, over the Temple Mount; a return of refugees to the prospective Palestinian state though with no "right of return" to Israel proper; and the organisation by the international community of a massive aid programme to facilitate the refugees' rehabilitation.

Arafat said no.

That agreement , with continued negotiations and compromise could have ended this decades ago.

THE PLO wasnt interested and refused because they didnt get 100% of what they wanted. Just remember, I have been watching this since I was old enough to read. There is no chance for peace and there never will be when one side refuses to negotiate and accept compromises.

No agreement, no treaty is ever perfect. Bill Clintons deal was the best they could have hoped for and had they accepted, this wouldnt be happening today. But they dont want peace.

They want Israel destroyed and her people dead.

[Kalador]

Entebbe. TWA. Munich. Black September. The PFLP . Al Fatah. The Fedayeen. Suicide attacks. Bombings. Hijackings. All long before many of you were even born.

The day Israel was created the Arabs tried to destroy it. From day one.

HAMAS will never renounce violence.

Israel will never surrender nor should they.

Anyone who thinks that there has ever been any chance of a peaceful settlement is ignoring decades of repeated attempts and repeated failures.

like Isreal don't have extremist who killed during last 60 years... Give me a break. Cave of the Patriarchs massacre, the killing in Khan Yunis etc...

And wtf are you talking about... "Isreal will never surrender nor should they" surrender to what... They are the one expending past the green line every day... No reasonable people wish the death of Isreal but no reasonable people think recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Isreal outside of a 2 states solution is a good move toward peace... It just put oil on the fire.

[Aehl]

President Trump recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and somehow that leads to war.

The Clinton agreement set the capital in east Jerusalem and somehow thats fine.

Arafat was offered a capital..and said no.

President Trump is right and what has been tried and failed...has failed. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

- - - Updated - - -

like Isreal don't have extremist who killed during last 60 years... Give me a break. Cave of the Patriarchs massacre, the killing in Khan Yunis etc...

And wtf are you talking about... "Isreal will never surrender nor should they" surrender to what... They are the one expending past the green line every day... No reasonable people wish the death of Isreal but no reasonable people think recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Isreal outside of a 2 states solution is a good move toward peace... It just put oil on the fire.

Yet Arafat was offered east Jerusalam as a capital. He refused.

[Poopymonster]

Somehow Someway this must make Trump money.

No other reason that I can figure out

Isn't the dude in charge of what-used-to-be-Blackwater fellating Dolan?
War brings weekend warrior mercs money.
The US can sell weapons and vehicles to both sides.
We already do most likely, for sure to Israel, and they get better gear.
Those tanks the Army didn't want but were forced to take need a home.

[Wyrt]

Palestine is not and never was a country, nor is Jerusalem located in their current territory. The land they live on has been Israel since the days the Israelites were Egyptian slaves and fled Egypt around 300 BC. They settled in what is now known as Israel. It was just a desert back then belonging to nobody

lol

If we're using the Bible as history then the Jews committed genocide on the native peoples there.

[Aehl]

I think a lot of people dont realise what President Trump has done. What message he has sent.

"You now have two choices. One , use this opportunity to come back to the table and discuss peace. The door is open. Or you can continue the violence and get nowhere"

If HAMAS wants peace and an agreement that can and will end the bloodshed, now is a good time. This is both a wakeup call and a blunt recognition of the stark fact that the current situation is the result of failed tactics and strategies.

Its up to them to choose.

[Poopymonster]

Isn't the dude in charge of what-used-to-be-Blackwater fellating Dolan?
War brings weekend warrior mercs money.
The US can sell weapons and vehicles to both sides.
We already do most likely, for sure to Israel, and they get better gear.
Those tanks the Army didn't want but were forced to take need a home.

Edit:Another thought

The fighting intensifies, more suicide bombings, the Not-A-Muslim-Ban-But-Picks-Out-Muslims-To-Be-Banned looks justified "LOOK! Mulsims gonna Muslim. We should keep em all out. Now I'll shoot that damn towel off their head if I ever something something freedom america something."

[Redwyrm]

I think a lot of people dont realise what President Trump has done. What message he has sent.

"You now have two choices. One , use this opportunity to come back to the table and discuss peace. The door is open. Or you can continue the violence and get nowhere"

If HAMAS wants peace and an agreement that can and will end the bloodshed, now is a good time. This is both a wakeup call and a blunt recognition of the stark fact that the current situation is the result of failed tactics and strategies.

Its up to them to choose.

From what I know a slap in the face always makes negotiations so much easier. [sarcasm in case it wasn't obvious]

[Aehl]

From what I know a slap in the face always makes negotiations so much easier. [sarcasm in case it wasn't obvious]

The Clinton agreement was the best they could have hoped for. They have been offered numerous treaties and compromises in the past.

So what would you do thats any different.

How would YOU solve this?

[Draco-Onis]

The Clinton agreement was the best they could have hoped for. They have been offered numerous treaties and compromises in the past.

So what would you do thats any different.

How would YOU solve this?

Have Israel give up major concessions for this in terms of settlements and rights of the Palestinian people. They have been building settlements while claiming they want peace, this is basically rewarding them for bad behavior. The US has effectively taken itself out of any future middle east peace deal.

This is not about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel, this is about religion and not feeding extremists. The US has just done the one thing that could unite the Arab world against Israel just at a time where they were turning to Iran. Some type of deal was already in the works and has some hope of being approved with Saudi Arabia being on board supporting Israel now there is zero chance of that.

[Aehl]

Have Israel give up major concessions for this in terms of settlements and rights of the Palestinian people. They have been building settlements while claiming they want peace, this is basically rewarding them for bad behavior. The US has effectively taken itself out of any future middle east peace deal.

This is not about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel, this is about religion and not feeding extremists. The US has just done the one thing that could unite the Arab world against Israel just at a time where they were turning to Iran. Some type of deal was already in the works and has some hope of being approved with Saudi Arabia being on board supporting Israel now there is zero chance of that.

This was offered decades ago, see above. They said no.

Oh and btw....thats Israel making concessions. Now tell me what concessions the other side needs to make.

i'll start with the most basic.

Recognise Israels right to exist.

[Draco-Onis]

This was offered decades ago, see above. They said no.

Oh and btw....thats Israel making concessions. Now tell me what concessions the other side needs to make.

i'll start with the most basic.

Recognise Israels right to exist.

it's not decades ago we are talking about today, i care not to litigate the past which is the problem with this conflict too many people like you stuck in the past while bodies pile up.

You do understand that part of deals is both sides making concessions right? where did I say Palestinians wouldn't have to make some of their own with this deal that was approved by the Saudis. You are skirting the issue Trump's move basically has killed any deal possibly that was in the works. The Saudis were working with others in the region to recognize Israel and help the peace process Trump just took a giant dump on that.