Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Which is why I said "Show, don't tell". And it is not an issue with MMOs. ESO does not have this issue at all. SWTOR was amazing at showing you the story. This is a lack of competence on Blizzard's side. And I honestly cannot believe it's because they cannot write a better story; it's not that hard. Neither do I think they are lazy. I just think they lack the operational structure to properly develop their story or that whoever is in charge of the narrative is far too afraid to be bold with it.

SWTOR probably went too far but that's another debate. If I had to look, Blizzard goes nuts with the big story(We all love big epic stuff) just don't forget about the small things(Like Suramar and such).

[Aeluron Lightsong]

And this makes the big story lack build up and thus the world lacks verisimilitude. I mean I love being the "Epic" DM in D&D and throw everything at my players (fallen dwarven kingdoms, mystical elven cities, dragons and demons, the whole tolkien catalogue) and they have immense fun with it but I'd only do it for a small campaign. Because if I tried to do that on a larger campaign that lasted 13 years, people would just be tired of it.

I think doing the big stories is fine, keep doing it, just don't forget the small parts(Like what happens to the Nightborne post Legion, show that to). Along with whatever the current events are going on. Like have some NPCs in Stormwind/Orgrimmar talking about how the Legion is defeated and or "Wtf was that big noise"(Referencing Gorribal stabbing Azeroth near Silithus).

Small stuff like that helps the game's story be relevant even in mini/post mortem patches.

[rcshaggy]

Now I just need a Blood Elf Male alt guy...Then this would be perfect...


The Doomsayer is a Blood Elf in Hearthstone...Really hope they add the NPC as a Blood Elf in BfA...
https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/me...47d2c9b26a7789



Digital Deluxe and Collector's in-game goodie for Hearthstone or pre-order bonus for playing the expansion?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Now I just need a Blood Elf Male alt guy...Then this would be perfect...


The Doomsayer is a Blood Elf in Hearthstone...Really hope they add the NPC as a Blood Elf in BfA...
https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/me...47d2c9b26a7789



Digital Deluxe and Collector's in-game goodie for Hearthstone or pre-order bonus for playing the expansion?

CE for sure. There'll probably be a reward for every Blizzard game.

[TriHard]

SWTOR probably went too far but that's another debate. If I had to look, Blizzard goes nuts with the big story(We all love big epic stuff) just don't forget about the small things(Like Suramar and such).

I'm hoping they at least clear it of hostile mobs for those that've finished the storyline as well as remove the demonic stuff in 7.3.5 like they said they would, would be fucking stupid if they said it's episodic content but then it's still hostile months after we finished it.

[NatePsy]

I'm hoping they at least clear it of hostile mobs for those that've finished the storyline as well as remove the demonic stuff in 7.3.5 like they said they would, would be fucking stupid if they said it's episodic content but then it's still hostile months after we finished it.

Problem is they have a history of not phasing zones after a league of big bad are dealt with. That's what I miss about when they first started toying with phasing, I loved that places like Hyjal slowly changed as you progressed through. Playerbase got too loud about it and they've dialled it back.

[tristannarutofan]

I disagree that they are so limited. They are simply not bold and completely bad at "show, don't tell".

Here is an example. The Nightborne choosing the Horde simply does not feel natural enough. The story was not told in a way to lead to that. But it could have been with minor alterations:

After Gul'dan you have the quest where Thalyssra decides to shut down the Nightwell. Instead of going straight to the discussion, when you zone in you find Tyrande (and maybe a couple of sentinels or night elf mages) and Liadrin set against each other with Valtrois telling you Tyrande tried to shut down the Nightwell (which was after all part of her goals in joining this campaign) and Liadrin stopped her. Thalyssra tells her she is no longer welcome in Suramar, then the rest of the scene goes on.

This is a 2-3 minute scene. There is a little voice acting involved but no new assets. Noone would act against their preexisting character yet everyone's motivation would become clear and there would be no conflict on why the Nightborne side with the Horde. I can give you similar FAST solutions for almost every poor story choice in Warcraft; almost all of them are easy to solve if you are just BOLD with your story and your characters.

Blizzard does so much storytelling, both in quests but also in dungeons and raids yet they have consistently failed to adequately involve their massive cast of characters, as if for fear of making a choice in their story that they might regret. Thus instead of slowly building storylines, they just build them in strides leaving gaps both in timeline and in logic. This is not about the limitation of the setting, the medium and certainly not of the engine at this point; it's a limitation in their storytelling. They plan expansions years ahead so it's not like they do not know what story they want to tell. They just fail at telling it.

Your premise is baseless. Your example would not be enjoyable.

Its pretty stupid to just say "i think they arent good enough or cowards:

You KNOW they put most intimate scenes in short stories or cutscenes.

What troubles me is your example. There is plenty of reason for the nightborne to join the horde. Its called "we are allies" thats....the only reason you need. Based on your example you are stuck on the incorrect assumption that joining the horde means having to be against the alliance.

Also i think you are under the false impression that scope of story equals quality.
Yes its true that they dont want to bog down players with Minutes of cut scenes. Ppl are here to kill things and collect stuff. Yes other games create a more immersive story and many ppl dont play those games because that makes it not fun. Wildstar is fairly successful and its story is a disjointed mess with most conflict being "cus blowing up stuff is cool"
Meanwgile im having fun with gw2 but it is getting tiring how with every story quest i have to sit and watch a poorly rendered face to face in which half the dialogue is my norn is posturing giving prescripted text in the same voice as the person im talking to.

[rda]

Which is why I said "Show, don't tell". And it is not an issue with MMOs. ESO does not have this issue at all. SWTOR was amazing at showing you the story. This is a lack of competence on Blizzard's side. And I honestly cannot believe it's because they cannot write a better story; it's not that hard. Neither do I think they are lazy. I just think they lack the operational structure to properly develop their story or that whoever is in charge of the narrative is far too afraid to be bold with it.

I think it's simpler and they are indeed lacking talent. Does Christie Golden write good stories? Not at all. I read her writings, they are pretty terrible. Her language is unremarkable, she constantly reminds the reader of what the big plot is (exactly what you call "telling, not showing"), her attempts at creating suspense are completely obvious and the resolution is commonly anticlimactic, etc. And she's not the worst they had. In fact she is constantly lauded to be one of the best.

I should do SWTOR sometime for the stories, it has been on my list since forever.

(This was a good couple of pages. A really enjoyable discussion.)

[Ningjinq]

I still think the underlying reason people have an issue with the Nightborne is they don’t want the “good guys” in the Nightborne joining the “bad guys” in the Horde and immediately jump to “bad writing” to explain it away.

[rcshaggy]

I still think the underlying reason people have an issue with the Nightborne is they don’t want the “good guys” in the Nightborne joining the “bad guys” in the Horde and immediately jump to “bad writing” to explain it away.

Well I am glad with Nightborne joining the Horde with the Zandalari Trolls...

Other races I think the Horde would be great with will be; (There can be other races too)

Ogres (Stonemaul and Dunemaul Clan in the Dustwallow Marsh that took the place over) (Main Race)

Forest Trolls (Revantusk Tribe as a Allied Race)

Hozen (The ones you befriend in Pandaria and also a Allied Race)

[Rhlor]

nightborne racial mount

[Fahrad Wagner]

Digital Deluxe and Collector's in-game goodie for Hearthstone or pre-order bonus for playing the expansion?

It looks gorgeous, I can't wait to use it!

[Noirebene]

Hi there.

Am I the only one to be quite scared by the size of the upcoming zones ?
Both Drustvar and Nazmir seem rather small, especially when we're going to only have 3 zones during our 10-levels journey.

However, we can only see the maps from the Blizzcon demo-version. Maybe it was just a preview of the zone and not the full one ?

[infinitemeridian]

Hi there.

Am I the only one to be quite scared by the size of the upcoming zones ?
Both Drustvar and Nazmir seem rather small, especially when we're going to only have 3 zones during our 10-levels journey.

However, we can only see the maps from the Blizzcon demo-version. Maybe it was just a preview of the zone and not the full one ?

Those were mini-maps, just portions of the zone. It looks like each zone is quite large - Nazmir is about as big as 2 zones from Legion.

[Ningjinq]

Well I am glad with Nightborne joining the Horde with the Zandalari Trolls...

Other races I think the Horde would be great with will be; (There can be other races too)

Ogres (Stonemaul and Dunemaul Clan in the Dustwallow Marsh that took the place over) (Main Race)

Forest Trolls (Revantusk Tribe as a Allied Race)

Hozen (The ones you befriend in Pandaria and also a Allied Race)

While we have only a relatively small sample size and are the first batch, there does seem to be a pattern with the races they added.

They are all at the base level the same species as existing playable races. That would appear to exclude Ogres and Hozen. And I don’t think Forest Trolls, with the addition of Zandalari, can be made to look different enough that they’d include them. (Same goes for standard Mah’gar Orcs)

Obviously we don’t know their actual criteria of what goes and what doesn’t but that’s what I personally see so far. If they don’t have those restrictions I think Ogres are very likely.

My guess for new allied races would include:

Man’ari Eredar for Horde.
One of the more exotic Draenor Orc clans for the Horde such as the Shattered Hand.

Kul’tiran Humans for Alliance. (This imo is by far most likely to be added)
Furbolg for Alliance. (I think they are close enough to Pandaren, and Furbolg make no sense on Horde)

[Gurmech]

My guess is that blizzard plans to add one additional allied race in a BfA content patch for each faction. The horde will probably get the vulpara and the alliance will get Kul'tiras humans.

This is pure speculation, but I think they want it to go like this: horde has quick success in recruiting the Zandalari, hence why they get Zandalari trolls and the first raid tier is on their continent, alliance will be delayed, and won't get the Kul'tirans on their side until a later bigger patch. In that patch the horde will continue to help the vulpara and the alliance will finish negotiation with Kul'tiras, unlocking the races.

There are some problems though. what skeleton does the current Kul'tiras humans use? If it is the vry'kul one, then I am not so sure it will get added.

[Nyel]

A Janaury release is very plausible.

No, it's not. Neither technically nor content-related. There's no plausible reason to release it in January.

[Ningjinq]

What I’m very curious to see is (and I’m actually surprised no one is thinking of it it feels like): how long will the process be for unlocking Zandalariand Dark Iron Dwarves? Will it be, just complete the leveling content essentially? Or will it be a long grind to get to exalted and they essentially will only be available a month+ away after release at quickest pace possible?

- - - Updated - - -

I don’t think looking at skeletons for currently unplayable races is a good barometer for guessing if they will be a future Allied Race. Nightborne after all did not have a player model and they had to rebuild it from scratch. They I’m assuing were known to be a future race for the Horde very early on. And they still didn’t make them a player model for Lwgion.

[Drekmar]

I hope they add more story quests to 7.3.5.

[Kjanaprik]

While we have only a relatively small sample size and are the first batch, there does seem to be a pattern with the races they added.

They are all at the base level the same species as existing playable races. That would appear to exclude Ogres and Hozen. And I don’t think Forest Trolls, with the addition of Zandalari, can be made to look different enough that they’d include them. (Same goes for standard Mah’gar Orcs)

Why are Mag'har orcs doubtful? Dark iron dwarves are just re-coloured normal dwarves and they made it in, so I can't see why re-coloured normal orcs are too far fetched