Trump announcing on Weds that USA recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

[Breccia]

That's why the Saudis were interested in making peace with Israel, because they are afraid of Iran's growing power.

I'll be honest, I thought the Saudis were basically just being bribed. Working with Kushner towards an Israeli peace agreement? I was so sure money was on the table. The arms deal helped me cement that idea. But...yeah, I think I was wrong.

[Deleted]

Bringing peace to the Middle East was going to be too easy for Boy Wonder, Trump wanted to give his son in law a challenge. Or maybe he wants to make sure Jared fails, so Trump has a better chance with his daughter.

If Abbas refuses (there is no other way, Trump fucked it all), it's game over for Kushner.

I'll be honest, I thought the Saudis were basically just being bribed. Working with Kushner towards an Israeli peace agreement? I was so sure money was on the table. The arms deal helped me cement that idea. But...yeah, I think I was wrong.

They were. But only because they fear Iran.

[Breccia]

As mentioned before, Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey have come out against this destabilizing movement.

When the US ambassadors to Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey were reached for comment, they said "We don't exist."

- - - Updated - - -

If Abbas refuses

Out of curiosity..."if"?

- - - Updated - - -

They were. But only because they fear Iran.

Gotcha. Thanks. Who knew peace in the Middle East could be so complicated?

Oh right. EVERYONE.

[Deleted]

As mentioned before, Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey have come out against this destabilizing movement.

When the US ambassadors to Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey were reached for comment, they said "We don't exist."

Fuck, it's even worse than I actually knew.

Out of curiosity..."if"?

The Saudis are pressing Abbas for some time now, so that the PLO would accept to drop some of their goals.

- - - Updated - - -

Gotcha. Thanks. Who knew peace in the Middle East could be so complicated?

Oh right. EVERYONE.

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsIte...1/Default.aspx

[Mormolyce]

The entire reason this is a thing is because the Israelis want recognition of Jerusalem as the de jure capital, which moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem provides.

Reminder, you said:

If terrorism is the result of Jerusalem becoming the de jure capital of Israel, then the blame will lie entirely on the shoulders of the terrorists, it is already the de facto capital.

As if you're talking about what's happening now. But as you conceded, obviously it's the Israelis that determine what the de jure capital is, which already happened. I believe Jerusalem became the de jure capital of Israel in 1980 with the passage of the Jerusalem Law. Though they had stated as much for decades prior.

So would you like to amend this statement or what? Now that you've reminded yourself what de jure and de facto actually mean.

[Rennadrel]

Welp the US has just ceded any seat at the table for any future mid east peace talks.

Not that it matters, there will never be peace in the Middle East so long as radical religious extremism exists. And good luck getting rid of that kind of doctrine.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll be honest, I thought the Saudis were basically just being bribed. Working with Kushner towards an Israeli peace agreement? I was so sure money was on the table. The arms deal helped me cement that idea. But...yeah, I think I was wrong.

If it's any consolation, our dumbass PM here in Canada gave the Saudi's a bunch of weapons too.

[Macaquerie]

Reminder, you said:



As if you're talking about what's happening now. But as you conceded, obviously it's the Israelis that determine what the de jure capital is, which already happened. I believe Jerusalem became the de jure capital of Israel in 1980 with the passage of the Jerusalem Law. Though they had stated as much for decades prior.

So would you like to amend this statement or what? Now that you've reminded yourself what de jure and de facto actually mean.

The fact that this is even a news story just highlights the toxic co-dependency between Israel and the USA. The people cheering this move are the same one who are always bleating about borders and sovereignty and all that, but what kind of self-determination involves a foreign power dictating where your capital is? And the silly thing is, nobody in the US wants Israel as a satellite or puppet state, their aggressive actions cause blowback for us, and besides, the things that Israel does well at, they do well because they are allowed to make their own choices without foreign interference, so why should we want to have our fingers in that pie?

[Ermelloth]

A good act, if only a bit risky at this time. I sincerely hope that won't result in increase of Palestinian terrorism.

[zEmini]

Doesn't matter what we do. Israel and Palestine will forever hate each other.

Best solution is to just give the Palestinians a City State in the west bank. See how it goes and if they try something ... annex it back.

[Ermelloth]

Doesn't matter what we do. Israel and Palestine will forever hate each other.

It's not quite true, at least about most ordinary Israelis. I can speak for a bigger part of Israeli society and the fact is - we do not hate Palestinians, but we are afraid of them. I mean, we're afraid of radical Islamism and terrorists / HAMAS in particular.

I consider myself a logical and a sane man. And it's natural for such a man to be afraid of someone, who can grab a knife and stab another person for the name of Allah or other crazy reason. Sadly, a lot of Gazans are just like this - they would gladly use an opportunity to kill / stab / blow up Israeli civilians have they given a chance to cross the border. Actually, it did happen several times when Israel agreed to let Palestinian workers in on number of occasions...

Now, that's obvious no one wants to get killed, so, sadly, until Gazan leadership changes for good and HAMAS / Islamic Jihad / other extremists put their weapons down, I'm afraid Israel has to proceed with caution.

However, hate? Not at all. I see Israeli Arabs (Palestinians living within Israeli borders) in Jaffa every day and don't really pay a special attention. If people behave like people and not like a kin of ISIS, there is no reason to hate them whatsoever.

Also, there is no trust, cause most of Palestinian street's leaders have shown many times in the past that they can't be trusted, starting from Arafat who chose to defy the Oslo agreements back in early 2000's.

[Mormolyce]

A good act, if only a bit risky at this time. I sincerely hope that won't result in increase of Palestinian terrorism.

Funniest post of the thread so far.

[Canpinter]

all in favor of just building a giant dome over the middle east and coming back every 50 years to see if things have worked themselves out?

[PC2]

The fact that this is even a news story just highlights the toxic co-dependency between Israel and the USA. The people cheering this move are the same one who are always bleating about borders and sovereignty and all that, but what kind of self-determination involves a foreign power dictating where your capital is? And the silly thing is, nobody in the US wants Israel as a satellite or puppet state, their aggressive actions cause blowback for us, and besides, the things that Israel does well at, they do well because they are allowed to make their own choices without foreign interference, so why should we want to have our fingers in that pie?

There is no "toxic co-dependency". Israel is a modern oasis in a dangerous neighborhood. Trump is helping to defend them against the enemies of civilization, good move.

[Ermelloth]

Israel is a modern oasis in a dangerous neighborhood. Trump is helping to defend them against the enemies of civilization, good move.

QFT, well said. What troubles me the most, though - that it's actually a large part of the Western world (SJWs and extreme leftists) who completely disregard the dangers of radical Islamic ideology and are so eager to damage / undermine Israeli power.

It's needed to tell, though, that not the people themselves are evil (I'm quite confident that, after all, most of Arabs / Palestinians / Iranians / etc. do want to live in peace), it's the Jihadi doctrine brainwashing huge part of these countries' population which is evil. Radical Islam is highly xenophobic, non-tolerant ideology; compromising with it is impossible, it can only either beat the Western civilization in the end or get destroyed.

Yet the Left doesn't want to acknowledge the problem. It's time they start putting their rose glasses off.

[Orbitus]

Not that it matters, there will never be peace in the Middle East so long as radical religious extremism exists. And good luck getting rid of that kind of doctrine.

- - - Updated - - -



If it's any consolation, our dumbass PM here in Canada gave the Saudi's a bunch of weapons too.

And the reason they are radical extremists? Is because the Jews are illegally stealing their land. If I was them, I would be attacking as well.

[Macaquerie]

There is no "toxic co-dependency". Israel is a modern oasis in a dangerous neighborhood. Trump is helping to defend them against the enemies of civilization, good move.

Yes, and moving all the government offices to a city where said enemies of civilization make up 35% (and growing) of the population is such a great step to further that goal...

[Ermelloth]

And the reason they are radical extremists? Is because the Jews are illegally stealing their land.

The Jews didn't "steal" land in Iraq, Nigeria, India, Libya, or Afghanistan, yet there are LEGIONS of Islamic extremists there, some of which are maintaining an alliance / cooperation with Palestinian terrorists. I somehow doubt that Israel affected tens of millions of Muslims thousand miles away from its territory so they became Jihadists out of sudden.

Finally, all the concept of "stealing the land" is not that simple; most of these territories would be 100% returned to Palestinians 10+ years already, if Arafat hadn't started the El Akza Intifada in 2002. There was a plan of IDF's withdrawal from outposts / settlements by dismantling / leaving them over a certain period of time (3-5 years), and Israel kept their part of the Oslo agreements, leaving Gaza and some of the other settlements, which are now under control of HAMAS or PLO. It's understandable it's not possible to dismantle all infrastructure, find settlers new homes, etc. in a matter of few months; Israel needed time to prepare the territories for passing them over. However, Arafat didn't want to wait, he wanted it all at once and he wanted BLOOD, and we all know the unfortunate result.

Now, get HAMAS off, de-militarize Palestinian civilians and then have the lands. Sadly, it wont work other way - we are not insane to turn our backs to armed extremists.

Yes, and moving all the government offices to a city where said enemies of civilization make up 35% (and growing) of the population is such a great step to further that goal...

Tbh, you're right. I'm Israeli and I don't think it's a good idea to move the office to Jerusalem at this point.

[Shadowmelded]

QFT, well said. What troubles me the most, though - that it's actually a large part of the Western world (SJWs and extreme leftists) who completely disregard the dangers of radical Islamic ideology and are so eager to damage / undermine Israeli power.

It's needed to tell, though, that not the people themselves are evil (I'm quite confident that, after all, most of Arabs / Palestinians / Iranians / etc. do want to live in peace), it's the Jihadi doctrine brainwashing huge part of these countries' population which is evil. Radical Islam is highly xenophobic, non-tolerant ideology; compromising with it is impossible, it can only either beat the Western civilization in the end or get destroyed.

Yet the Left doesn't want to acknowledge the problem. It's time they start putting their rose glasses off.

Pretty sure "The left" understand the problems Islamic extremists pose but realize that it's more nuanced than what you're trying to portray. When people feel like they're under attack, they'll side with a strongman even if their ethics are questionable (in their eyes, not mine). This move just drives more people to become embattled.

[PACOX]

They won't impeach me in the middle of sectarian conflict.

[Kiri]

QFT, well said. What troubles me the most, though - that it's actually a large part of the Western world (SJWs and extreme leftists) who completely disregard the dangers of radical Islamic ideology and are so eager to damage / undermine Israeli power.

It's needed to tell, though, that not the people themselves are evil (I'm quite confident that, after all, most of Arabs / Palestinians / Iranians / etc. do want to live in peace), it's the Jihadi doctrine brainwashing huge part of these countries' population which is evil. Radical Islam is highly xenophobic, non-tolerant ideology; compromising with it is impossible, it can only either beat the Western civilization in the end or get destroyed.

Yet the Left doesn't want to acknowledge the problem. It's time they start putting their rose glasses off.

It is funny how you start with extreme leftists, but by the end you just generalize them across the whole left - which, incidentally, tends to be what most moderate people on the left tend to complain about. You will find few people that say that radical Islamic ideology is not a problem. Usually, what people on the left complain about, is when others simplify a problem too much or generalize from radicals and extreme groups to whole populations. In this case, for example, you will not find me condoning violence from the Palestinian side, but you will also see me criticize Israel's treatment of said group. I personally never understood the need for Israel to be founded right there, in one of the most contested areas of the world. And I will never understand why Jerusalem has to be the political capitol of either side in this conflict. The only way that city will ever find peace is by coexistence, the past thousands of years have shown that.