1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    Way to easy for people that spend 3 months preparing for this race do 9 split runs for 2 weeks which means 18 weeks worth of gear on their mains do a fuck ton of PTR testing and datamine the living shit out of it.
    Besides that they raid 18 hours a day for as long as it takes.

    How difficult can you really make it when these people go this balls deep into things?
    You can make it broken like KJ and Avatar and then everyone will explode but if the fight is "possible" these 2 guilds will do it in record time .
    The argument of splits giving them an extra 0.5 / 1 ilvl per char or just the ability really to use unique classes all the time specifically for a fight. Vs the fact that this raid is 10 bosses down compared to TOS which took well over the first reset before the 2nd to last boss died. Then another week on top of that for KJ to die. Or Nighthold where Guldan took just under 2 resets to kill :P

    Plus all these runs had heroic splits again before most of these bosses died again to get even more gear.
    So whilst that is an argument it isn't THE ARGUMENT because they done all this before! To say this raid "seems" or even "IS" easier compared to the others is a truthful statement....so people need to stop downplaying that argument.
    Last edited by Costa; 2017-12-07 at 09:07 AM.

  2. #1342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costa View Post
    The argument of splits giving them an extra 0.5 / 1 ilvl per char or just the ability really to use unique classes all the time specifically for a fight. Vs the fact that this raid is 10 bosses down compared to TOS which took well over the first reset before the 2nd to last boss died. Then another week on top of that for KJ to die. Or Nighthold where Guldan took just under 2 resets to kill :P
    Plus all these runs had heroic splits again before most of these bosses died again to get even more gear.
    So whilst that is an argument it isn't THE ARGUMENT because they done all this before! To say this raid "seems" or even "IS" easier compared to the others is a truthful statement....so people need to stop downplaying that argument.
    My guy I'm going to need you to proofread this post and then rewrite it because I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
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  3. #1343
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grosfaisan View Post
    You can add the ability to choose among 150-200 very well geared and prepared characters. I don't see how a laid back mythic guild could have 5 affliction locks and 4 SP well geared like Limit on Coven. The amount of different classes and specs Method has used so far is unreal. From 1 melee on Coven to 7 melees on Agrammar, including 3 rogues and people barely used on previous bosses.
    Usually people have certain classes for certain roles. Rogues if you need some soaks, SP or Warlock for multidotting, Balance druids for big AOE etc., But you don't need 150 well geared chars, expect more like 60-80.

  4. #1344
    Quote Originally Posted by hockenberry View Post
    And thats the problem.
    40 minutes of mythic PTR testing is not a fuck ton. this argument needs to fucking die

  5. #1345
    TL'DR
    They did splits before, did more splits before in other raids because they re split during progress which hasn't happened yet....Using the argument of the last raid was broken or whatever yet all other raids were the same where they killed 50/60% of raid then got stuck, this time not stuck!

  6. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    It is a clear problem for Blizzard whether or not you agree with it. They were vocally happy with Nighthold having 2000 guilds clearing Gul'dan cutting edge and vocally unhappy with only 800 guilds clearing Kil'Jaeden. It seems to me they want a certain number of participating guilds and clears for mythic content fot it to remain being a use of both development time and the overall health of the high end difficulty.

    There are guilds that you might consider not that skilled but after nerfs they are able to clear the content and Blizzard has utilized and been happy with this system this expansion, as they have continued doing so. So yes, the "X" number absolutely matters.
    Fair enough, then Blizzard should tell us this number so we know if it's over or under-tuned. We both know they won't though as it sets a standard for them to keep.

    Besides I could argue that if they made both normal and heroic slightly harder and mythic on the level of 500-1k guild able to beat it prior to next tier/expansion the game would be better off and engage people for longer. Catering to the players that constantly want what they can't have ultimately leads down a bad path.

    The problem I see now if that normal is reaching LFR levels of easy and heroic is starting to become the new normal and due to this more people expect to be able to do mythic and as such Blizzard feel compelled to make it more accessible. It's an endless downward spiral that will require über difficulty to replace mythic and then we start over again.

    Either way, if Blizzard quantifies how difficult a mythic raid "should" be then we can all argue why they are right or wrong...until then we're just arguing what we think is right because Blizzard isn't telling us what is.

  7. #1347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdance View Post
    40 minutes of mythic PTR testing is not a fuck ton. this argument needs to fucking die
    oh look jdance is arguing against the benefit of PTR testing again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  8. #1348
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    Way to easy for people that spend 3 months preparing for this race do 9 split runs for 2 weeks which means 18 weeks worth of gear on their mains do a fuck ton of PTR testing and datamine the living shit out of it.
    Besides that they raid 18 hours a day for as long as it takes.

    How difficult can you really make it when these people go this balls deep into things?
    You can make it broken like KJ and Avatar and then everyone will explode but if the fight is "possible" these 2 guilds will do it in record time .
    This one is easy to fix though. Have mythic raids drop max level gear and tune the raid based on the assumption that everyone has the previous tiers gear. Open mythic with the other difficulties. Then split runs would be redundant and mythic raiders wouldn't have to deal with the bullshit that is TF while the rest of the players can have their lucky moments with the TF system.

    Win win.

  9. #1349
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    This one is easy to fix though. Have mythic raids drop max level gear and tune the raid based on the assumption that everyone has the previous tiers gear. Open mythic with the other difficulties. Then split runs would be redundant and mythic raiders wouldn't have to deal with the bullshit that is TF while the rest of the players can have their lucky moments with the TF system.

    Win win.
    Adding to this they made this new raid have these amazing ilvl 1000 trinkets which act as legendary rings from last expansion where they send out a flat buff to the raid. Why isn't it tuned so like at least 60% of the raid needs these trinkets ? xD

  10. #1350
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    The problem I see now if that normal is reaching LFR levels of easy and heroic is starting to become the new normal and due to this more people expect to be able to do mythic and as such Blizzard feel compelled to make it more accessible. It's an endless downward spiral that will require über difficulty to replace mythic and then we start over again.
    Exactly what I feel, and that's a problem.

    ToS Heroic was good, and without the 7.3 upgrade of M+ ilvls and Netherlight Crucible, a big number of guilds would have killed KJ Heroic just 1~2 months before Antorus release. The tuning for Heroic guilds was nice, and the lasts bosses needed everyone in the raid to play properly and not just count on the 4-5 best guys in the guild to carry them.

    Now if Antorus is too easy in Heroic, these guilds will want to go Mythic, and it poses roster problems with the fixed 20 people and the classes needed (if you don't have at least 3-4 Boomkin/Elem GLHF with High-Command...).
    And some people just don't have the skill required for Mythic, but are good enough to be in an Heroic guild so it will create internal tension between members, officers, etc.

    Blizzard need to be clear about the fact that Mythic is only for people that are dedicated to go in Mythic, hence the need to properly and correctly tune the lower difficulties.
    Last edited by Yunyuns; 2017-12-07 at 09:35 AM.

  11. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrja View Post
    10 bosses down in 1 day. Raid difficulty is way to easy.
    Well, did you down 10 bosses in one day?

  12. #1352
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    This one is easy to fix though. Have mythic raids drop max level gear and tune the raid based on the assumption that everyone has the previous tiers gear. Open mythic with the other difficulties. Then split runs would be redundant and mythic raiders wouldn't have to deal with the bullshit that is TF while the rest of the players can have their lucky moments with the TF system.

    Win win.
    I don't really care what they do.. its a fix for a very small number of players. They can just leave it as it is.
    Just sick and tired of the "this raid is so easy" argument because its easy because these players have lived and breath this raid for 3 months.
    Everyone outside of the top 10 are going to struggle in this raid like every other tier and it really isn't easy.

  13. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    I don't really care what they do.. its a fix for a very small number of players. They can just leave it as it is.
    Just sick and tired of the "this raid is so easy" argument because its easy because these players have lived and breath this raid for 3 months.
    Everyone outside of the top 10 are going to struggle in this raid like every other tier and it really isn't easy.
    So why did they struggle in ToS? Why did they struggle in Nighthold? Why did they struggle on Helga....etc etc they had the same opportunities and did the same splits and "lived and breathed the game for 3 months" before so why is it so different now? I don't get your point. They didn't wake up 3 months ago and think i know im going to do 9 split raids before next raid ? They been doing that since forever mannn

  14. #1354
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    Way to easy for people that spend 3 months preparing for this race do 9 split runs for 2 weeks which means 18 weeks worth of gear on their mains do a fuck ton of PTR testing and datamine the living shit out of it.
    Besides that they raid 18 hours a day for as long as it takes.

    How difficult can you really make it when these people go this balls deep into things?
    You can make it broken like KJ and Avatar and then everyone will explode but if the fight is "possible" these 2 guilds will do it in record time .
    All top guilds (top 30-50) do this man Method still ass rape everyone they must be better you know?

  15. #1355
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Well, did you down 10 bosses in one day?
    not that many guild have ever started doing mythic yet. I think many will hold still if raid looks too easy. its not fun to clear content in few days/one or to weeks if raid will last 8 months or so.

  16. #1356
    Deleted
    LOL "raid is too easy"

    Those guildes are full of exceptionnal players and huge raid prep. Most of the pleb will clear MM in 4-6 months.

  17. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    not that many guild have ever started doing mythic yet. I think many will hold still if raid looks too easy. its not fun to clear content in few days/one or to weeks if raid will last 8 months or so.
    I really doubt that most players here will clear mythic at all and most that do will take months to do it.
    The average raider have not even been able to clear HC yet.

  18. #1358
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    I don't really care what they do.. its a fix for a very small number of players. They can just leave it as it is.
    Just sick and tired of the "this raid is so easy" argument because its easy because these players have lived and breath this raid for 3 months.
    Everyone outside of the top 10 are going to struggle in this raid like every other tier and it really isn't easy.
    We went in and two shot first boss, killed second in 5 pulls and should have killed High Command in as many if we didn't play like shit last 45 min of the raid. It is pretty easy so far even outside of the top 10. And judging, as objectively as I can, by the streams I've watched it is easy for being a mythic raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    I really doubt that most players here will clear mythic at all and most that do will take months to do it.
    This is a bit of a flawed argument though. The top guilds put in more hours in the first week than most normal mythic guilds raid in a couple of months.

  19. #1359
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Costa View Post
    So why did they struggle in ToS? Why did they struggle in Nighthold? Why did they struggle on Helga....etc etc they had the same opportunities and did the same splits and "lived and breathed the game for 3 months" before so why is it so different now? I don't get your point. They didn't wake up 3 months ago and think i know im going to do 9 split raids before next raid ? They been doing that since forever mannn
    Did less splits, ToS was easy except for 3 bosses, 2 of which were broken and fixed in the first 2 weeks, 1 of them was nerfed.
    NH was easy till you got to star aurgur which was a giant cockblock and way to overtuned. 2 healing it etc. After that shit went down easy.
    ToV and EN both died in a week. easy as fuck then.

    So not sure what you're talking about. Every raid has been easy except for the giant overtuned bosses which made is impossible to actually kill which were nerfed and fixed.

  20. #1360
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    This is a bit of a flawed argument though. The top guilds put in more hours in the first week than most normal mythic guilds raid in a couple of months.
    Yes, they do. What is your point?

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