Antorus Progression Thread

[Deleted]

ITT: People judging Antorus difficulty based on the performance of overgeared hardcore top raiding guilds.

Meanwhile, the average joe keeps dying to Kin'garoth's laser beam.

[zox2]

Highmaul was the first real mythic raid. SoO was only mythic for the WoD pre patch.

while this is _techically_ true, today's raid structure existed almost the same way in mists already. As a reminder, in mists it was flex, normal, heroic. What you remember in SoO was that they renamed it to normal, heroic, mythic, because they wanted the 2 lower difficulties to be both flexible raid size, so the name no longer made sense. Heroic difficulty thus just got renamed, but not changed in essence.

So with all that "real" mythic existed at the very least since mists, but it even already existed in LK officially with there being a normal/heroic split in TOC, the concept of which came from ulduar hard modes.

So yeah...

[Noxina]

I'm pretty sure the fact that I don't base video game playing as a criteria for being a winner in life automatically means I'm the winner in this argument.

If it makes the person happy, wouldn't he/she be winning in life? As in every other hobby on this planet.

[durrtygoodz]

And probably still a better player than you.

It's okay we can't all be winners.

what a cutie

[Kalcheus]

If it makes the person happy, wouldn't he/she be winning in life? As in every other hobby on this planet.

No. That's not how it works at all. But that's a discussion for off-topic, not the world first race, so I'll drop it.

[Twilight Cultist]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ric=fightwipes

Looking at the wipes vs kills these bosses seem harder than all the crying on this forum about how easy this raid is in mythic.

ITT: People judging Antorus difficulty based on the performance of overgeared hardcore top raiding guilds.

Meanwhile, the average joe keeps dying to Kin'garoth's laser beam.

People are talking about relative difficulty. Just because the majority of players in the world won't down Mythic Argus, that doesn't refute the point that Antorus could possibly end up being one of the easiest raids Blizzard has made in recent history apart from Emerald Nightmare.

[ablock87]

You are aware that bosses "back then" took so long not because of "skill required to kill them" but because of the absolute stupidest shit right?

Lets take a quick dive into this:
Rag: took so long because he was released with the game, he was nearly killed instantly when people finally hit 60 and got into MC.
Nef: Took so long because, at the time, there were still nearly no geared players at 60, making guilds suffer waiting for gear.
Cthun: He was literally bugged, and impossible to kill
4hm: Once again, you needed gear to drop, or poach other tanks, still didnt take that long
Vashj: Bugged
Kealthas: Bugged AF
MH: released with the game, but required you to kill two bugged bosses to get in
Illidan: fucking lulz, dead in days (like this raid)
Sunwell Bosses: Nearly every single boss was dead the day it was released, but you had to get through artificial time gating to access the last 3 bosses

I hope that helps you with the "extreme difficulty". If lets say, Sunwell was all released on day 1, it would have likely not lasted a week (felmyst was dead on the second day).

You're telling me people couldn't kill nef and 4hm until they were properly equipped? People couldn't kill Princess Huhuran either until properly equipped.

It's odd you leave out Kel'thuzad, as well.

You also forget classes had way way less ways to deal with mechanics back in the day, too. No shit there were less mechanics. There were also less immunities / raid speed increases / aoe damage reductions.

[seraknis]

People are talking about relative difficulty. Just because the majority of players in the won't down Mythic Argus, that doesn't refute the point that Antorus could possibly end up being one of the easiest raids Blizzard has made in recent history apart from Emerald Nightmare.

But it's easy because the fights are easy (as it was the case with EN, which was cleared by a lot of guilds really fast) or because they are optimizing enough to cheese mechanics that would obliterate other groups (which would mean that the avarage Cutting Edge guild will still have problems)?

- - - Updated - - -

You're telling me people couldn't kill nef and 4hm until they were properly equipped? People couldn't kill Princess Huhuran either until properly equipped.

It's odd you leave out Kel'thuzad, as well.

You also forget classes had way way less ways to deal with mechanics back in the day, too. No shit there were less mechanics. There were also less immunities / raid speed increases / aoe damage reductions.

People had no clue about what stuff did, what worked and what didn't, gear wasn't optimized and was scarcer, and despite that you could manage to clear content at least until Naxx.

[Noxina]

No. That's not how it works at all. But that's a discussion for off-topic, not the world first race, so I'll drop it.

How does being happy NOT make you a winner? Are you one of those that thinks money is everything? If so, I feel sorry for you. Eventually you will realize that money isn't important to 'win' in life at all.

But yeah, off topic.

[Confucius]

Argus dies before this thread hits 100 pages

[ablock87]

People had no clue about what stuff did, what worked and what didn't, gear wasn't optimized and was scarcer, and despite that you could manage to clear content at least until Naxx.

You can probably make that argument for MC and BWL, but not AQ40 or Naxx.

[dionim]

I'm pretty sure the fact that I don't base video game playing as a criteria for being a winner in life automatically means I'm the winner in this argument.

Well being successfull irl is 1000x better that I agree, but in a video game forum it actually doesn't mean anything =/

[Aggrophobic]

That a lot of the once that do clear it ends up spending a similar amount of time progressing just over a longer period of time. In this case that longer period of time will, by the looks of things, be quite short hence the guy you responded to have a point. It's a very real concern that's already been vented in my guild, if we clear it in a month or so what will we do for the next 6+ months.

The first few bosses in ToS took a day or so to kill as well but most guilds never managed to kill them or took a long time to do it.
Now, if Antorus really is super simple then sure, thats an issue. Is it really though? Method clearing it in a few days is not a good indication of how hard the raid actually is.

ToS had design issues that made it, I guess harder (more like annoying) but the raid was not really appreciated and a lot of people simply gave up on it. I doubt thats a better way to keep players in the game.

[Micronetic]

So it's Method and Exorsus again

[tonic316]

NA bye bye

hey remember when limit said "maybe we are just good at the game" when they clearled 3/4 the instance super quick before euros could? Wonder if today is their last day raid.

[Deleted]

Argus dies before this thread hits 100 pages

That would be shortest progression thread in a long time :-(
Quick guize, post ALL TEH MEMES!

[Cracked]

You can probably make that argument for MC and BWL, but not AQ40 or Naxx.

Heck, people had no idea what to do in Ulduar, where you could actually kill Yogg+0, but so few guilds bothered to realize that you needed a FoK spamming rogue, functioning nonbraineded hunters, and a handful of warlocks to damage the boss. Was bringing 5 warlocks to 25 man considered over the top class stacking? Yeah, even though by todays standards, it's pretty laughable.

[Toogoodman]

You're telling me people couldn't kill nef and 4hm until they were properly equipped? People couldn't kill Princess Huhuran either until properly equipped.

It's odd you leave out Kel'thuzad, as well.

You also forget classes had way way less ways to deal with mechanics back in the day, too. No shit there were less mechanics. There were also less immunities / raid speed increases / aoe damage reductions.

I mean, when BWL was released people were in greens and blues (not well itemized ones either). People also had zero idea how to play the game, making it "harder". Once people understood what to do, it was far easier to prepare for AQ40/Naxx.

Also, i left out KT because he died so quickly after 4hm. You, being an amazing vanilla player, must know tat you need 8 tanks with 4pc T3, so they would get taunt resisted, causing a raid wipe, on a 10+ minute fight. You are also aware, of course that each boss dropped a single tier token, with the 3 end bosses (leading up to 4hm) dropping 2. You might see where the problem is here, and why they decided to increase loot drops in TBC. If you were to take a guild like method, with literally some of the best players in the game, and put them in Naxx 40, they would probably steam roll it now with the theory crafting we have, and their ability to play. Also, if you've ever played a private server, where they even make Naxx harder to slow players down, it still gets rofl stomped in a week, because its a fucking joke.

Did I clear Naxx 40 in Vanilla? Nope, I was in a guild where we got cocked blocked by 4hm, we also had people doing under 200 dps back then, we had tanks using the shield out of ubers, we had half the raiders not even using consumables. But you know what? each horseman had 1 mechanic for dps to watch out for outside of their marks, I would hardly call that challenge by today's terms.

[Leih]

while this is _techically_ true, today's raid structure existed almost the same way in mists already. As a reminder, in mists it was flex, normal, heroic. What you remember in SoO was that they renamed it to normal, heroic, mythic, because they wanted the 2 lower difficulties to be both flexible raid size, so the name no longer made sense. Heroic difficulty thus just got renamed, but not changed in essence.

So with all that "real" mythic existed at the very least since mists, but it even already existed in LK officially with there being a normal/heroic split in TOC, the concept of which came from ulduar hard modes.

So yeah...

To expand on this post...When SoO was released it came with:

25 Player LFR mode.
10+ Player "Flexible" Mode
10 Player Normal Mode
25 Player Normal Mode
10 Player Heroic Mode
25 Player Heroic mode.

When the Pre-WoD prepatch came out (which was patch 6.0) SoO was retroactively changed to:

25 Player LFR Mode
10+ Player Normal Mode (Previously tuned as "Flexible" in 5.4
10+ Player Heroic Mode (Previously tuned as "Normal" prior to 6.0)
20 Player Mythic Mode (Previously tuned as "Heroic" prior to 6.0)

So it depends a bit what people refer to when they talk about when the current iteration of Mythic came about.

The content tuned as "Mythic" has technically existed since the invention of Heroic mode raiding in WotLK (in ToTGC I suppose). Heroic was later renamed to Mythic in the 6.0 patch (but the general tuning level is the same, it was just a rename because they didn't want to use the term "Easy mode" for the new Flex difficulty.

Though the current 20-player fixed sized difficulty setting only started in the WoD prepatch (and that was long after SoO was on heavy farm for any serious guild, meaning the first real 20-player Mythic raid was Highmaul)

[Toogoodman]

You can probably make that argument for MC and BWL, but not AQ40 or Naxx.

AQ40 was a joke, once Cthun had a hotfix it instantly died, and he was the only actual challenge. Naxx had 4 "difficult encounters"

Being 4hm (because of geared tanks), Loatheb (because DPS race), Gothik (wutz coordination), and KT. Everything in Naxx outside of the 4hm/Saph/Kt was dead in a week.

Also, raiding used to have a massive barrier to entry, you couldn't gear up people, you basically had to poach players from feeder guilds lmao. Maybe we should go back to this system, make loot scarce and watch people squirm and cry because now the games "too hard".