Should more complex stats make a return? (block%, MP5, hit, defense rating, etc)

[cparle87]

I support ditching Vers and bringing back Multistrike and a modified Amplification - have it increase critical effect

SWTOR has a stat like that, they call it surge. Their crits only do +150% damage, surge raises it to ~170% before DR kicks in.

[Bloodyleech]

Ah, Jay isn't banned anymore, I see.
Well - I wouldn't say no to multistrike.
Blood with Multistrike!!

While we are at it: bring back reforging. With reforging it doesn't feel as bad if I get something with a good ilvl but both of my worst stats.

[Eggroll]

I loved reforging. And with the current state of primary stats not being on jewelery, practically giving too much power to secondaries, it's no better than before.
If you get jewelery with the wrong secondaries they are no upgrade at all.

With reforging you could at least make them a bit more useful....

[Deleted]

Most of the old stats like hit and defence were just ''you have to have this at a certain level to be able to perform your role''. Nothing complex about it.

And if reforging ever returns I will be very annoyed. It was just 1) install addon 2) go to a reforger when you get a new piece of gear 3) let the addon optimise for you. Nothing fun about it and a waste of time and money. In Cata it was always: ''yey, I got a new piece of gear ...oh wait now I have to re-gem, re-enchant and reforge everything... again''

[A dot Ham]

Honestly Jay mate.

I wouldn't mind more stats than we currently have.

And get rid of Versatility. Bring back Multistrike while we are at it. Was actually a fun stat.

What? How is that a fun stat?

Or rather how is that any MORE fun than versatility. Especially when you consider that the overall effect is the same a flat % increase to output.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Wouldn't make things more complex than they are now.

And I wouldn't mind a return to those simpler times when an upgrade was just an upgrade, rather than what we have now where every new piece needs to be picked apart and simmed and stat weighed.

[Wildmoon]

I am not sure about secndary stats but I see absolutely no point in main stats. If Blizzard wants to make them practically irrelevant like they are now then just get rid of them and incorporate them into item lv. If they want to keep them then at least make them a relevent choice. There's no point in str, int, and agi in the current system.

I personally don't like the system which draws a clear line between each stat like if you are warrior then agility is useless or if you are rouge then intellect is useless. I want stats to be more general. Yes, it will produce cookie cutter builds but it's also more fun to me.

[hammbone]

The "old" secondaries weren't complex.
They were more annoying than fun because if I found an upgrade, but it dropped me below 8% hit, it wasn't a real upgrade and required other pieces to balance it out, so it sat in the bags and waited (or I would pass the roll on it to someone who could use it, because I'm not a shitbag lootwhore like some people).
Reforging helped a little with finding the right hit, but then it just became another task, where you check a site or addon and just do what it says.
Oh, I have enough hit, ok, so I reforge the worst secondary to the best.
Not exactly compelling.

I say get rid of secondaries altogether.
Then there's no need to complain about itemization, how one stat is god for one spec while trash for another, etc.
Have primary stat, then let that control all secondaries passively at a fixed incremental rate.
No more loot drama, just "is it higher ilvl? yes? well then, slap that bitch on!"
No more "my spec needs all the mastery ever and all I get is haste/vers trash!".
Blizz will never be able to balance the 4 simple secondaries ones they have today, given the various effects haste, mastery, and crit have on certain specs that favor one over the others.
Make it baseline, go full arcade mode, and grind/kill/grind/kill.

Right?
Meh.

If you don't care about stats you don't care about the genre. Can't wait for classic. Live is full of people dumbing down the game each and every patch.

[Difuid]

Is this the part where people pretend they did not use an addon to get to the minimum hit level and then dump everything else into the best stat?

Judging by the comments, apparently using Rawr back then was hard for some people.
The old stats were not complex, there were just more of them and some were shoved down your throat, like hit rating.
For example armor pen was the old melee only versatility without the damage reduction.

Anyway, in my opinion gear should not have ANY stats at all, apart from armor and gem/cog/whatever-upgrade slots so you can give it the stats you want.

[Dug]

hit rating was ass so no ty. Wouldn't mind versatility being replaced tho because its a very boring stat

[Nightstalker]

If we had reforging back, I wouldn't mind having hit rating in. You know, so we have to manage our equipment.

You mean get an addon that tells you how to reforge. Stop pretending to be scientists because you know what a calculator is.

[Lightwysh]

get rid of versatility and bring back block and spirit/mp5.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Some stats only work in games with different gameplay orientation. Armor and spell penetration would be interesting in settings where that would give you a situational bonus while still being viable for normal everyday use. The thing in wow is, everything is according to the current raid meta gameplay. A stat like that works best in open world games with non-linear endgame progression.

Hit is something that also only works in RPGs when you are in a constant state where you progress and always have the chance to encounter something above your level. It would be interesting if depending on the situation you'd have different chances to hit and hit would therefore reflect your aim skill. In a setting wherre you always have to reach 7/8% because hitting is always a DPS upgrade over a long encounter compared to missing (devaluing any other stat), yeah that is just boring and not at all interresting.

The other proposed stats have similar problems. Some could work in WoW if the framework of the class supported it (multistrike and ability proccs for example), other stats will never work in wow and can stay were they are - out of the game.

[TheWorkingTitle]

You mean get an addon that tells you how to reforge. Stop pretending to be scientists because you know what a calculator is.

I never used any addon or calculator while reforging. Sure, it took some jiggering and trial-and-error to get the best set-up, but man was that satisfying once I did. Reforging needs to come back so higher item level items that are poorly itemized can still be salvaged into upgrades. I have so many higher item level items in my bags that have shit secondary stats that aren't upgrades. That feels awful. Reforging would turn them into upgrades, which is how it should be.

[Jujudrood]

If you don't care about stats you don't care about the genre. Can't wait for classic. Live is full of people dumbing down the game each and every patch.

Kinda the point of the little 'meh' at the end.
The trend is to remove anything intricate (or "confusing") and replace it with something friendly.
They've done it with those old secondaries, with tooltips, with talent trees, the list goes on.
Even the character page (default 'C') got changed to where you don't even see some of the values you used to in MoP/WoD, which was changed back then to fit the no-hit/exp/etc model.

The thing is, people who play WoW today are very different from people who played 13 years ago.
Sure, there are some who have stuck it out the entire run (maybe begrudgingly at times, like I have), but there are tons of newer players (post-wrath, in this case).
Many of these people are not your typical RPG types, but rather your action RPG or 'small dose' players, who want to just jump in, do the things, and jump out.
By making this closer to D&D and requiring time away from 'fun stuff', it becomes a chore, which quickly becomes a bore.
I mean, even in campaigns I run now, I kinda dumb it down some and make it friendlier because some of my friends just aren't into taking the time to really learn and hammer out some of the details of their characters; they just want to get into the 'fun stuff'.
It is what it is. /shrug

[Lochton]

You mean get an addon that tells you how to reforge. Stop pretending to be scientists because you know what a calculator is.

Didn't know you saw it as a science, was it that hard for you? You know, you didn't need a calculator to realize what stats you could make the most use of.

Reforging at least give you some reason to your equipment, now you just slap on what you have or stick with worse gear because you can't manage your own equipment.

[Shammyrock]

The caps really weren't fun or interesting in any way, I'm glad they're gone.

Wish the secondary stats were closer balanced in some cases but accept that's easier said than done

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Reforging should make a return because getting items with your worst 2ndary stats is very shit atm (sure, it wasn't optimal back then either, but the difference was much smaller).

The biggest thing is Healers though. Spirit/Mp5 and Int increasing maximum mana should all return. I stopped playing any Healer alts the moment those things were removed.

[braxx]

I don't know about more complex, but at least more meaningful.

Also versatility has to go, it just is like the main stat so there is no point having it. Or remove the main stats.

[Aeula]

No thanks. Hit, expertise and whatnot were horrible stats.

Having to cap a stat before being considered viable isn't much fun at all.