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  1. #61
    The japanese can make robots to do everything. If we could only get all the Muslims, Indians and any other group that is over reproducing to stop having kids.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilist74 View Post
    The japanese can make robots to do everything. If we could only get all the Muslims, Indians and any other group that is over reproducing to stop having kids.
    It's pretty easy. You fix poverty in developed and birthrates correct themselves. Literally happened in every developed country.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
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    The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

  3. #63
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Probably start friendzoning some of the weird ass people that want to move to Japan would be a good start, seriously culture vultures, and fetish freaks aren't great imports. If you can't see these human beings as people and Japan as an actual place to live as opposed to some goofy Idea, I dunno maybe living their isn't so helpful for them.

    Top that off yeah maybe export some people for cash to China or some of the less overcrowded asian countries , so Japan can maybe downsize some of their population and possibly upgrade their situation. Seriously if I had to live wall to wall like some of the things I had seen compound by what said, I would probably have snapped there a long time ago.

    Shit or maybe it's fine I don't know but I sure as hell have never understood the want or need to inflict myself along with a shit load more people on this country. I sincerely hope for them things work out.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  4. #64
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennis View Post
    How can you expect Japan, a country with over 120 million people and one of the largest world economies to follow the example of Denmark. We need apples to apples comparisons.
    Do you expect that japan is able to put people that does not speak japanese or english to work?

    I dont mind immigration, but people coming to be on welfare. If you have a job lined up, you should just be able to come here.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by halloaa View Post
    Importing people and putting them on welfare wont solve the problem. Just look at Denmark.
    *Looks at Denmark's excellent standard of living*
    You sound like someone who turns up to raid who gets upset because the raid isn't carrying you good enough.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    And you claim you come from Canada lol, our divorce rates are one of the highest. Pretty sure Canadian would vote with a 80% that pets are more convenient.
    Show us your technical analysis that shows this. Or just make more things up, you choose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  6. #66
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    *Looks at Denmark's excellent standard of living*
    You sound like someone who turns up to raid who gets upset because the raid isn't carrying you good enough.
    More like "someone who turns up to a raid where he and everyone else does great, and is upset because we replaced 5 good raiders with players lifegripping people into fire."

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennis View Post
    Funny how you assume that anyone who comes to Japan goes on welfare. That's really racist. In Canada and the U.S. some of the best and brightest are immigrants.
    thats not only racist but stupid - mutliple studie show that up to 80-90 % of immigrants do start working in first 6 months after coiming to the country

    its most alt-right who spread undomumented bs like this

  8. #68
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    There's something very wrong with Asia.

    Japan with their career fanaticism and sex issues.
    China with a terrible men to women ration (there are like 50.000.000 more men than women).
    South Korea with their plastic surgery obsessions.
    North Korea with um, nukes.
    Thailand with a crapload of ladyboys.
    Philippines with a cowboy president shooting drug dealers on sight.
    Papua New Guinea with its alcohol problem (ok ok, many countries have that but here are machettes included).
    India with so many suicidal people and ehhhh they love to take dumps in the streets....

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    thats not only racist but stupid - mutliple studie show that up to 80-90 % of immigrants do start working in first 6 months after coiming to the country

    its most alt-right who spread undomumented bs like this
    Certainly not the case in Sweden.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    There's something very wrong with Asia.

    Japan with their career fanaticism and sex issues.
    China with a terrible men to women ration (there are like 50.000.000 more men than women).
    South Korea with their plastic surgery obsessions.
    North Korea with um, nukes.
    Thailand with a crapload of ladyboys.
    Philippines with a cowboy president shooting drug dealers on sight.
    Papua New Guinea with its alcohol problem (ok ok, many countries have that but here are machettes included).
    India with so many suicidal people and ehhhh they love to take dumps in the streets....
    Indonesia? Malaysia? Laos? Cambodia? Burma?

  10. #70
    They need paid maternity leave, day care centers, a change to the traditional system where the care of the elderly fall to the children (or the wives of the children), a strong and active campaign for women to have children and a career.

    There is currently a far to high pressure on women who chose to get married to become an addendum to their husbands - part-time job at most with little or no real aspirations taking care of the home, kids,etc. That is of course fine if that is what you desire, but for those with career ambitions it is fairly toxic. They are faced with either staying single or switching their ambitions to the husbands career which of course creates a ton of pressure on them leading to guys who prefer the company of their waifu rather than the constant humiliation of being a non-advancing office worker.

  11. #71
    This isn't exactly a startling revelation, as the precarious demographic situation in Japan has been a subject of study for many, many years now. Indeed, you can go back as far as the post-Bubble times to see the first worries.

    What makes things so tricky is that the problem extends into so many areas of life, and is rooted in so many base paradigms of history and society. It's not as easy as some people would like to suggest when they reduce it to "Japanese are just too obedient and industrious" or notions like that. It's a multi-level issue with a myriad facets, and consequently it's incredibly difficult to actively combat. Government interventions are one thing, but you can't exactly mandate people have more sex - you need to start pushing gently in some key areas and hope that the ball gets rolling. But what areas and how hard to push, that is a tricky question indeed.

    One example is the "Premium Friday" campaign earlier this year, through which the government gave workers the option to end work early at 3pm one Friday each month, so they had some time to relax and go out and do what people do when they have free time. But instead of leaping at some leisure time, the entire campaign folded spectacularly because workers just DIDN'T MAKE USE OF IT. They had the option to go home early, and didn't - for various different reasons, including of course (but not limited to) not wanting to look like a slacker in front of coworkers.

    It's difficult to understand such a mentality from an outside perspective, but it's also difficult to tackle it from the inside. I've spoken to a number of sociologists in Japan about this problem, and while the root causes are fairly well researched (and extensive) nobody really has any revolutionary ideas on how to change things. It's a deeply entrenched socialization that can't simply be switched off over night, and so far most forceful measures (like literally locking people out of their workplace if they have too much overtime) were largely met with resentment. Unsurprisingly so, as this is one of sociology's oldest dilemmas - you want people to be free to make their own choices, but you also want them to please go and make the RIGHT choices.

    While solutions are elusive and difficult to pin down, there's more luck with pointing fingers at problem areas. One big one is Japanese politics. While the country is thoroughly democratic, the political system is plagued with widespread apathy and clique mentality that is slowly developing into a neo-aristocratic closed system. No prime minister in decades has NOT had a family member somewhere down the line that was also prime minister. Some political posts are in 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th generation occupancy now - all elected, of course. What's even more mind-boggling to (Western) outsiders is that while corruption is by no means unknown in Japanese politics, it's not usually the cause of these nepotisms; rather, the voting public subscribes to a family-centered mentality that finds value in familial succession, giving candidates who run for the same office their father (or whichever other relative) once held an advantage. That a disproportionate number of voters are older generations only serves to exacerbate the problem, as young Japanese tend to just not vote, a dangerous trend that's been continuing for decades.
    A calcified political system concerned only with its own incumbency of power, however, is ill-suited to pushing for radical reform. Careers within the secluded political circle become the prime concern for many politicians, and stirring up trouble with bold and controversial proposals is seen as an entirely unnecessary risk to one's own career - which, in turn, is another reflection of socialized behavior originally aimed at a harmonic society but now trapped in an antiquated loop of apathy and stagnation.

    The Japanese economy is another problem. While it is at its core a modern capitalist machine like in any other first-world nation, work and workplace ethics and practices very much still follow in the vein of societal models. This includes a lot of overtime (often unpaid; there was an interesting case a few years back where McDonald's store managers went on a riot because their accumulated unpaid overtime resulted in them actually having a lower hourly wage than their clock-punching fry cooks), few holidays and sick days, and a very hierarchical and patriarchal work environment, among other things. Similarly to the examples above, though, many of these systems are carried by the actual workers themselves to a striking degree. Companies don't force people to stay at the office until their superior leaves first, but it's what people do; and companies don't make their workers go out for a drink after work with colleagues and superiors, but people feel like they can't exactly refuse. The list goes on. Now, that's not to say there AREN'T despicable and downright exploitative practices at the corporate level (any foreigner who's ever worked as an English teacher in Japan can attest to that), but a great number of problems are so diffuse they cannot be altered by simply changing some corporate policy. And to all that, add the usual capitalist disregard for people as people, and the willingness to exploit anyone and everyone to the full extent of the law (same as in most capitalist nations).

    Connected with the economy is another key problem: the living situation in big Japanese cities. Japan is highly urbanized and centralized - 90% of the population live in cities, and 28% of the entire country lives in the larger Tokyo-Yokohama-Chiba metropolitan area. This makes space a limited commodity, driving up property prices and shrinking individual residences considerably. While some simply cope by living in cramped quarters, a good number of people instead solve the problem by moving out of the inner core of cities and into the periphery (which isn't really suburban as the West would understand it). The result: commutes become longer and longer. If your way to work takes less than an hour in Tokyo, you are fortunate. Taking two hours isn't rare, and even longer commutes are not unheard of. While that might sound like an inconvenience more than anything else, it has the added unpleasant effect of DRASTICALLY cutting into the time available each day, and the long commute is a chief contributor to the stereotypical image of Japanese workers being trapped in the sleep-work-sleep loop. What it also does is shift leisure activities away from the home and into the public sphere. Since your acquaintances are often coworkers, you meet up near work, where everyone is anyway - you go out for drinks, a bar, maybe some karaoke. Then everyone goes back to their own commute, in all the cardinal directions (the whole capsule hotel thing is a peculiarity, and actually very rare). But if most of your social interaction takes place in the public sphere, you behave very differently. Affection and intimacy are a private matter, and best kept out of sight - while it no longer goes as far as "omg we can't hold hands" (that's very 1980s-90s), everyone is very aware of the necessary reservations and keeps themselves guarded accordingly. And even if you do find someone, having a partner that lives 3-4 hours away (if you happen to live at opposite ends of the metropolis) doesn't exactly help the dating process.

    It's often said that "the Japanese don't like sex", or similar notions. Which is ridiculous, obviously, since both Japanese men and women are still human beings with all the urges and desires that come with it. The problem is, they've learned to compromise a little too well. So well, it's turning into apathy in many areas, and sex is ultimately one of them. While the instant gratification of porn and virtual relationships is often a showcase example, it's still a very niche phenomenon, all things considered; not to be ignored or not concerned about, to be sure, but far from the mainstream mentality people like to picture when they imagine a Japanese nerd rushing from his lolicon manga porn to the nearest used panty vending machine.

    If your life is laden with hoops to jump through, you'll be loath to add another. And that's how many people view relationships and families here - not because they have a problem with the concept or are socially inept, but because it's just the latest in a line of neverending compromises they make, and tediums they accept. The key point, however, is that many of the problems are effectively (and: collectively) self-imposed. While economic realities of urbanization and land scarcity are a bit more stubborn, social pressure is largely self-perpetuated through collective actions. In other words, if everyone just went and did it differently, it wouldn't be there - but in that also lies the problem, because you need EVERYONE on board (or at least a critical mass of people). This means you cannot simply change policy or the law, and see things unfold. It goes deeper, stretches farther, reaches wider than that. I don't have a good solution, and I'm not alone in that (there's "solutions" aplenty, just not good ones). But time is running out, that much is clear. Soon there will be over a MILLION people over the age of 100 in the country, and with a birthrate already below 1.5 (let alone 2+) it doesn't take a genius to realize what's fast approaching.

    I'm doing my best to observe and reflect, and at least I can confidently say that it's a problem increasingly on people's minds. Of course, the examples I mentioned here are just the tip of the iceberg (as so often) and there's many more areas to explore. I'd point to women's issues, for example, which are a fascinating treasure trove of sociological material (and, perhaps, ultimately also a workable solution), or to the immigration situation that has been attracting more and more interest of late. But there's more, and I invite anyone with scholarly ambitions and an interest in Japan to come pick a field to study more in-depth. You won't run out of material, I promise you.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennis View Post
    http://www.businessinsider.com/japan...-signs-2017-12



    http://www.businessinsider.com/japan...-signs-2017-12

    Wow! What a great read this was. It really provides good insight on the situation in Japan. It's clear sooner or later the situation will need to be addressed with serious action. The government needs a tax base to provide for the tens of millions of elderly.

    I wonder what it's like for those who married their "buddies" as stated in the article. Anyone have any more info on this phenomenon?
    Terrible article that has a lack of understanding or unwillingness to say what is actually happening in Japan.

    Young Men are not getting jobs in Japan. The younger women there wont settle for any man that isnt making a crap ton of money. This has been happening for a while and is what started the Herbivore Man movement. Basically young men that said fuck it and either live out in nature or stay locked in their parents home. A lot of the lack of quality jobs for younger men has to do with how the structure is set up, the article touched on it but basically you get lifetime payment with companies after a certain amount of time and old people arent quitting to allow for the younger generation to get jobs. So its basically two things going on. Old people holding onto jobs, women also getting jobs that traditionally only went to men. And then you also have women overvaluing themselves only wanting to date the very top Men for marriage. Its not surprising that the suicide rate in Japan among young males is extremely high.

    This will carry on to the Western world with the way Feminism has basically become the hatred and destruction of men. Its been happening it just hastn hit mainstream yet but it will soon.

  13. #73
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    When your economy forces people to work full time for both men and women, then it's no surprise that people don't have the time to have sex, let alone the time to raise children. If people had money to burn then one of the two could decide to raise their children, or both parents could have part time jobs. But that isn't the case especially in Japan.

  14. #74
    Deleted
    Actually the only reason "we need th kids" is to satisfy the welfare state not to statisfy society. With automatization rising to remove workers for majority of jobs it's only normal for the rate of birth to drop, since modern western societies do not need more workers.

    One would argue a kid raised and then becomming unemployed is way way worst than him never being born, to the enviroment, ecnomy and country.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Under Your Spell View Post
    Certainly not the case in Sweden.
    certainly show me date claiming otherwise

    without this its nothing bus bs claims of rasisit alt-rrights who base their political carrier on nithing else but fear of unknown and rasism

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    Terrible article that has a lack of understanding or unwillingness to say what is actually happening in Japan.

    Young Men are not getting jobs in Japan. The younger women there wont settle for any man that isnt making a crap ton of money. This has been happening for a while and is what started the Herbivore Man movement. Basically young men that said fuck it and either live out in nature or stay locked in their parents home. A lot of the lack of quality jobs for younger men has to do with how the structure is set up, the article touched on it but basically you get lifetime payment with companies after a certain amount of time and old people arent quitting to allow for the younger generation to get jobs. So its basically two things going on. Old people holding onto jobs, women also getting jobs that traditionally only went to men. And then you also have women overvaluing themselves only wanting to date the very top Men for marriage. Its not surprising that the suicide rate in Japan among young males is extremely high.

    This will carry on to the Western world with the way Feminism has basically become the hatred and destruction of men. Its been happening it just hastn hit mainstream yet but it will soon.
    this is the biggest problem in most of developed societies - but tbh its natural that it happened - the moment woman relises that she is perfeckly capable to live on her own why the f.. would she settle for anything less then what she desire ? she has no problem to feed herself and can get laid whenever she likes (hello tinder & co ) - wtf she would like to be with a man who cant land a semi decent job ?

    and that part about "herbivore men" - this is also a sign of our time and constantly developing "pussification of men" - those people just stopped trying - and rather escape into virtaul world (hello free porn ) because its easier solution

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    This isn't exactly a startling revelation, as the precarious demographic situation in Japan has been a subject of study for many, many years now. Indeed, you can go back as far as the post-Bubble times to see the first worries.

    What makes things so tricky is that the problem extends into so many areas of life, and is rooted in so many base paradigms of history and society. It's not as easy as some people would like to suggest when they reduce it to "Japanese are just too obedient and industrious" or notions like that. It's a multi-level issue with a myriad facets, and consequently it's incredibly difficult to actively combat. Government interventions are one thing, but you can't exactly mandate people have more sex - you need to start pushing gently in some key areas and hope that the ball gets rolling. But what areas and how hard to push, that is a tricky question indeed.

    One example is the "Premium Friday" campaign earlier this year, through which the government gave workers the option to end work early at 3pm one Friday each month, so they had some time to relax and go out and do what people do when they have free time. But instead of leaping at some leisure time, the entire campaign folded spectacularly because workers just DIDN'T MAKE USE OF IT. They had the option to go home early, and didn't - for various different reasons, including of course (but not limited to) not wanting to look like a slacker in front of coworkers.

    It's difficult to understand such a mentality from an outside perspective, but it's also difficult to tackle it from the inside. I've spoken to a number of sociologists in Japan about this problem, and while the root causes are fairly well researched (and extensive) nobody really has any revolutionary ideas on how to change things. It's a deeply entrenched socialization that can't simply be switched off over night, and so far most forceful measures (like literally locking people out of their workplace if they have too much overtime) were largely met with resentment. Unsurprisingly so, as this is one of sociology's oldest dilemmas - you want people to be free to make their own choices, but you also want them to please go and make the RIGHT choices.

    While solutions are elusive and difficult to pin down, there's more luck with pointing fingers at problem areas. One big one is Japanese politics. While the country is thoroughly democratic, the political system is plagued with widespread apathy and clique mentality that is slowly developing into a neo-aristocratic closed system. No prime minister in decades has NOT had a family member somewhere down the line that was also prime minister. Some political posts are in 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th generation occupancy now - all elected, of course. What's even more mind-boggling to (Western) outsiders is that while corruption is by no means unknown in Japanese politics, it's not usually the cause of these nepotisms; rather, the voting public subscribes to a family-centered mentality that finds value in familial succession, giving candidates who run for the same office their father (or whichever other relative) once held an advantage. That a disproportionate number of voters are older generations only serves to exacerbate the problem, as young Japanese tend to just not vote, a dangerous trend that's been continuing for decades.
    A calcified political system concerned only with its own incumbency of power, however, is ill-suited to pushing for radical reform. Careers within the secluded political circle become the prime concern for many politicians, and stirring up trouble with bold and controversial proposals is seen as an entirely unnecessary risk to one's own career - which, in turn, is another reflection of socialized behavior originally aimed at a harmonic society but now trapped in an antiquated loop of apathy and stagnation.

    The Japanese economy is another problem. While it is at its core a modern capitalist machine like in any other first-world nation, work and workplace ethics and practices very much still follow in the vein of societal models. This includes a lot of overtime (often unpaid; there was an interesting case a few years back where McDonald's store managers went on a riot because their accumulated unpaid overtime resulted in them actually having a lower hourly wage than their clock-punching fry cooks), few holidays and sick days, and a very hierarchical and patriarchal work environment, among other things. Similarly to the examples above, though, many of these systems are carried by the actual workers themselves to a striking degree. Companies don't force people to stay at the office until their superior leaves first, but it's what people do; and companies don't make their workers go out for a drink after work with colleagues and superiors, but people feel like they can't exactly refuse. The list goes on. Now, that's not to say there AREN'T despicable and downright exploitative practices at the corporate level (any foreigner who's ever worked as an English teacher in Japan can attest to that), but a great number of problems are so diffuse they cannot be altered by simply changing some corporate policy. And to all that, add the usual capitalist disregard for people as people, and the willingness to exploit anyone and everyone to the full extent of the law (same as in most capitalist nations).

    Connected with the economy is another key problem: the living situation in big Japanese cities. Japan is highly urbanized and centralized - 90% of the population live in cities, and 28% of the entire country lives in the larger Tokyo-Yokohama-Chiba metropolitan area. This makes space a limited commodity, driving up property prices and shrinking individual residences considerably. While some simply cope by living in cramped quarters, a good number of people instead solve the problem by moving out of the inner core of cities and into the periphery (which isn't really suburban as the West would understand it). The result: commutes become longer and longer. If your way to work takes less than an hour in Tokyo, you are fortunate. Taking two hours isn't rare, and even longer commutes are not unheard of. While that might sound like an inconvenience more than anything else, it has the added unpleasant effect of DRASTICALLY cutting into the time available each day, and the long commute is a chief contributor to the stereotypical image of Japanese workers being trapped in the sleep-work-sleep loop. What it also does is shift leisure activities away from the home and into the public sphere. Since your acquaintances are often coworkers, you meet up near work, where everyone is anyway - you go out for drinks, a bar, maybe some karaoke. Then everyone goes back to their own commute, in all the cardinal directions (the whole capsule hotel thing is a peculiarity, and actually very rare). But if most of your social interaction takes place in the public sphere, you behave very differently. Affection and intimacy are a private matter, and best kept out of sight - while it no longer goes as far as "omg we can't hold hands" (that's very 1980s-90s), everyone is very aware of the necessary reservations and keeps themselves guarded accordingly. And even if you do find someone, having a partner that lives 3-4 hours away (if you happen to live at opposite ends of the metropolis) doesn't exactly help the dating process.

    It's often said that "the Japanese don't like sex", or similar notions. Which is ridiculous, obviously, since both Japanese men and women are still human beings with all the urges and desires that come with it. The problem is, they've learned to compromise a little too well. So well, it's turning into apathy in many areas, and sex is ultimately one of them. While the instant gratification of porn and virtual relationships is often a showcase example, it's still a very niche phenomenon, all things considered; not to be ignored or not concerned about, to be sure, but far from the mainstream mentality people like to picture when they imagine a Japanese nerd rushing from his lolicon manga porn to the nearest used panty vending machine.

    If your life is laden with hoops to jump through, you'll be loath to add another. And that's how many people view relationships and families here - not because they have a problem with the concept or are socially inept, but because it's just the latest in a line of neverending compromises they make, and tediums they accept. The key point, however, is that many of the problems are effectively (and: collectively) self-imposed. While economic realities of urbanization and land scarcity are a bit more stubborn, social pressure is largely self-perpetuated through collective actions. In other words, if everyone just went and did it differently, it wouldn't be there - but in that also lies the problem, because you need EVERYONE on board (or at least a critical mass of people). This means you cannot simply change policy or the law, and see things unfold. It goes deeper, stretches farther, reaches wider than that. I don't have a good solution, and I'm not alone in that (there's "solutions" aplenty, just not good ones). But time is running out, that much is clear. Soon there will be over a MILLION people over the age of 100 in the country, and with a birthrate already below 1.5 (let alone 2+) it doesn't take a genius to realize what's fast approaching.


    I'm doing my best to observe and reflect, and at least I can confidently say that it's a problem increasingly on people's minds. Of course, the examples I mentioned here are just the tip of the iceberg (as so often) and there's many more areas to explore. I'd point to women's issues, for example, which are a fascinating treasure trove of sociological material (and, perhaps, ultimately also a workable solution), or to the immigration situation that has been attracting more and more interest of late. But there's more, and I invite anyone with scholarly ambitions and an interest in Japan to come pick a field to study more in-depth. You won't run out of material, I promise you.
    Well theres some well though out post. I highlighted the chapter I would comment on. I saw lot of this reflected from whatever articles describe the attitude torwards relationships as well as decribed above how dating is "mendokusai" or bothersome. I personally have this attitude to lot of things in my life. Lot of the things are just too bothersome to be worth it. Why bother with dating when it's just big hassle of working hard for possibly little pay off? Not that it would help the declining birthrates in Finland anyway as I don't want anything to do with children so I wouldn't have them if i were in relationship to begin with.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennis View Post
    The reward of love and lifelong companionship isn't worth it. Heard it here first folks.
    Most relationships terminate waaaaaayyyyyyy before that.

    And after that you're paying for your EX and kids you might never see again.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Decline in births? CAPITALISM DOESN'T WORK!
    Millions dead? NOT REAL COMMUNISM
    Communism is a lot better at births because it is all about support nets.

    Guaranteed maternity leave, guaranteed jobs after it, guaranteed sick leave to sit with kids, guaranteed housing and so on.

    That is the thing they provide; because they take away to redistribute everything else.

  19. #79
    Old God Mistame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    thats not only racist
    That's not how that word works.

  20. #80
    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Most relationships terminate waaaaaayyyyyyy before that.

    And after that you're paying for your EX and kids you might never see again.
    Huh?
    Most successful marriages are exactly what I just detailed. Aim high bud. Don't settle for mediocrity.

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