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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I love how hard people try and rationalize and justify their actions. People will go to great lengths to convince themselves that they are not shitty people.
    I'd happily pay for the series and movies i'm watching, if it were an option. The problem is they clearly do not want my money, because they are not even trying to sell them to me. There is no way of obtaining said shows/movies here, except for waiting for a year and a half.

    The issue lies with how movies and series are published, regional releases etc. They can very easily just sell them online to _everyone_ on the planet at the same moment.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    I'd happily pay for the series and movies i'm watching, if it were an option. The problem is they clearly do not want my money, because they are not even trying to sell them to me. There is no way of obtaining said shows/movies here, except for waiting for a year and a half.

    The issue lies with how movies and series are published, regional releases etc. They can very easily just sell them online to _everyone_ on the planet at the same moment.
    All this amounts to is another attempt to justify your actions. If the company doesn't want to sell it to you, it's not a justification just to take it. In the end, you are still taking something that does not belong to you.

  3. #483
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    So I don't really care about your opinion
    kind of pointless thread then really.

  4. #484
    Who's to say there is any?

    Case in point:
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I read it, it's the same old shit every time. People want to try and justify shitty actions.
    Because apparently there is only one shitty action one may perform against property. Negating that nonsense means the other action one may claim to exist is automatically not shitty, because reasons. By the exact same "logic" Machismo et al exhibit saying that death penalty or manslaughter aren't murder means they aren't shitty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    If at any point you own or are using something without the rightful owner's permission it's stealing. It's like me showing up and driving your car all night... I mean you were not using it right then so no harm right?
    Except what you describe is joyride, which is NOT considered stealing. Great example. Totally not self-defeating.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2017-12-08 at 03:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  5. #485
    Legendary! Pony Soldier's Avatar
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    It's very simple. You are taking something that you're supposed to pay for and not paying for it. It's very similar to walking in a store and taking something without paying for it. It's not your property. How hard is it to understand that? Doesn't matter if they have an infinite amount of something or not. Stealing is stealing. If the artist released their songs for free then that'd be a different story but they don't.
    Last edited by Pony Soldier; 2017-12-08 at 03:35 PM.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Please refer to my first post in this thread. I have nothing else to say to you on this subject.
    You mean this one?:

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    There is no logic. It's just idiocy.
    I suppose it makes sense that you have nothing else to say to me on this subject. Because you never actually had anything to say in the first place :P

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    It really doesn't matter how you want to twist the meaning of the words, at the core of things - it's stealing.
    Except to make it stealing one has to actually twist the meaning of words, not the other way around. Kinda why Polish Criminal Code doesn't mention intellectual property.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Who's to say there is any?

    Case in point:


    Because apparently there is only one shitty action one may perform against property. Negating that nonsense means the other action one may claim to exist is automatically not shitty, because reasons. By the exact same "logic" Machismo et al exhibit saying that death penalty or manslaughter aren't murder means they aren't shitty.




    Except what you describe is joyride, which is NOT considered stealing. Great example. Totally not self-defeating.
    I didn't say that at all. I'm saying people who pirate things are selfish, there is no other way around it. they want to deliberately screw over someone else, and they don't want to pay for it. Trying to quibble over whether it is stealing, or another word entirely, doesn't really matter. It's an attempt to deflect from their own shitty, selfish behavior. If you don't want to call it stealing, fine... it's still shitty behavior.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemposs View Post
    Technically it would IP theft, so

    I don't know what your countries laws are on piracy, or using a product without paying for its license, but I have my doubts that it isn't there, it just isn't enforce is more likely the case.
    Poland, for example, allows you to download movies, tv shows, books, music, digital paintings as long as you're not distributing any further to the masses, but family and friends is perfectly fine - means no torrenting, just pure HTTP/P2M (peer2mail) or basically anything that doesn't share the thing with other people outside of the family & friends circle. You can't pirate games and other forms of software though. So yeah, depends on the country, some allow it if you don't share it further, some don't allow it at all, they can enforce it or not give a fuck. In Poland nobody gives a fuck if you download games, even though it's technically illegal to do so.

    The legality of downloading said things without paying for them is also however regulated a little bit in Polish law - you can only pirate things that are already available somewhere - so you can't download a movie that wasn't even released in the theaters yet, so leaks are a no-no. Once a movie has aired in a theater, you're free to go and you don't need to concern yourself if the movie was put on a site legally or illegally as long as you're not sharing the pirated item any further (no p2p).
    Last edited by mauserr; 2017-12-08 at 04:09 PM.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    In some cases, like some of those you mentioned, the original copyright holder and their families are long since dead, and therefore the rights to the property fell into the public domain.
    Yes, that happens sometimes. When copyrights weren't being extended ad infinitum they actually had limits and just ended even if the author was still alive.

    And works do not fall into public domain, they originate there and return.

  11. #491
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    When I changed from iPhone to Samsung - I lost a ton of the music I paid for. So I downloaded it "illegally" to get most of those songs back. It was annoying but it felt good.

    Before that, I had my car get broken into. Most of my music was gone however I did burn some of it for back-up to use on my ipod. When switching phones, I lost more music ... so I downloaded it and it felt fucking good.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    If at any point you own or are using something without the rightful owner's permission it's stealing. It's like me showing up and driving your car all night... I mean you were not using it right then so no harm right?
    Your comparison is completely wrong. You are taking something and removing it from its position and putting wear and tear on it.
    To be a duplicate analogy you would have to say, "It's like me showing up and copying your car out of thin air and driving this copy of your car all night".
    Well then enjoy! I hope you love every minute of your drive, good on ya mate!
    “We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.”

  13. #493
    This discussion is stupid. Piracy isn’t theft because definitions actually matter in law and what things mean have significance. Piracy doesn’t meet the definition of theft. Piracy is still a crime and morally wrong. It’s not the worst thing in the world, but if you’ve convinced yourself it’s completely okay then you’re being more than a little disingenuous.

  14. #494
    Dreadlord Molvonos's Avatar
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    Piracy is theft. In this day in age, Piracy is the theft of Intellectual Property.

    How is that theft?

    Most likely, people who don't feel/view/etc that Piracy is theft, likely have neither been in College, nor have they created anything in the modern, digital era.

    In the former example: Plagiarism is regarded as Illegal.

    Plagiarism

    an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author:
    It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne.
    Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
    2.
    a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation:

    If you're in college and you willfully and knowingly Plagiarize, you can have many different repercussions: like these.

    You can see the above bolded is 'Piracy'. Stealing Blizzard's Intellectual Property, however old, is considered Piracy and thus, theft.

    Definition of piracy

    plural piracies
    1 : an act of robbery on the high seas; also : an act resembling such robbery
    2 : robbery on the high seas
    3 a : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright
    b : the illicit accessing of broadcast signals

    If you drew something and posted it on DeviantArt, Tumblr, Furaffinity, whatever (and you even watermarked it), then you (or a friend) stumbled over your very own work of art, that someone else is taking credit for (even going as far as removing the watermark), are you saying you'd be ok with it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain View Post
    This discussion is stupid. Piracy isn’t theft because definitions actually matter in law and what things mean have significance. Piracy doesn’t meet the definition of theft. Piracy is still a crime and morally wrong. It’s not the worst thing in the world, but if you’ve convinced yourself it’s completely okay then you’re being more than a little disingenuous.
    Wrong.
    /10chars
    Personal Preference and Opinions ≠ Facts, Truth, or Logic

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    Piracy is theft. In this day in age, Piracy is the theft of Intellectual Property.

    How is that theft?

    Most likely, people who don't feel/view/etc that Piracy is theft, likely have neither been in College, nor have they created anything in the modern, digital era.

    In the former example: Plagiarism is regarded as Illegal.

    Plagiarism

    an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author:
    It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne.
    Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
    2.
    a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation:

    If you're in college and you willfully and knowingly Plagiarize, you can have many different repercussions: like these.

    You can see the above bolded is 'Piracy'. Stealing Blizzard's Intellectual Property, however old, is considered Piracy and thus, theft.

    Definition of piracy

    plural piracies
    1 : an act of robbery on the high seas; also : an act resembling such robbery
    2 : robbery on the high seas
    3 a : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright
    b : the illicit accessing of broadcast signals

    If you drew something and posted it on DeviantArt, Tumblr, Furaffinity, whatever (and you even watermarked it), then you (or a friend) stumbled over your very own work of art, that someone else is taking credit for (even going as far as removing the watermark), are you saying you'd be ok with it?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Wrong.
    /10chars
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowl..._United_States

    Whose wrong? You don’t know what you’re taking about.

  16. #496
    I don't understand why it is so hard for some people to place themselves in another person's shoes. So many silly questions can be answered by this simple method...

    I'm not saying you're a bad person if you pirated a show that you legitimately have no other way to access, but to pretend it's not theft is "silly".
    Last edited by Raist; 2017-12-08 at 05:34 PM.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    If at any point you own or are using something without the rightful owner's permission it's stealing. It's like me showing up and driving your car all night... I mean you were not using it right then so no harm right?
    That's a retarded analogy. I don't take their car. I make a copy of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by takeshiIsu View Post
    kind of pointless thread then really.
    It's not about opinion or morals, it's about how in the fuck can copying something with the acceptance of the one that bought the file be stealing.

  18. #498
    So, you are taking something from someone else because it has value to you (you enjoy it).
    It has value to the author/producer/developer because it cost them time and money to create.

    It has a value to you, it has a value to them. You take the thing without paying the amount the creator has placed on it.

    How is that not the definition of stealing?
    You can do mental gymnastics to justify it all you want, but if it had no value you wouldn't have tried so hard to STEAL it.

  19. #499
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    I don't see the difference between one dude buying a show and then putting it on torrent for others to use and me inviting over 10 people to watch Game of Thrones on my cable TV. In both cases people watch it for free. What's the deal here?
    The difference is licensing. Cable TV purchased license from HBO that allows it to broadcast the show in question, so creators both got credit and $$ for their trouble, it does not matter now if 1 guy will watch it or whole frikkin' hood in front of TV legally receiving Cable TV broadcast.

    On the other hand buying a copy licenses it for your own/home use only, you can't share it. That's why you don't pay gazillion $$ to buy it, unlike the Cable TV which pays considerably more for the same thing but different license that allows broadcast/sharing within specified parameters (Cable TV also can't just toss in on Torrent, because there are other limitations to their license).

    Another example - open source code coming under open source license, if you want to develop solution based on that code you will be required by license to make your code open source as well.

    Licensing exists to make sure that creators will get their dues and not get their work stolen.


    Pirate WoW servers do not have license to do what they do, meaning they shit on creators and operate illegally - it is literal stealing of property. This does not matter whether what they stole is legacy/outdated/obsolete, as long as they don't have license to use it - they can't use it, end of story.

  20. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    If at any point you own or are using something without the rightful owner's permission it's stealing. It's like me showing up and driving your car all night... I mean you were not using it right then so no harm right?
    So If i go to shop and buy some fake Adidas boots (which i might probably not even realize), does that means that i stole them from Adidas and should be put to justice? Because I obviously have no right to wear them, because the guy who sold them had no right to sell them.

    There is plenty of fake goods everywhere, I have not heard a case where somebody went to trial for wearing fakes. Is it my responsibility to recognize fakes from original?

    If you order something, how do you know that shop has right to distribute it? And are you responsible for their ilegal actions if you buy from them?

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