Retailers: "Classic communities dont know what they want."

[Kyanion]

The fact that it changed and was met with such wide reception, to the point that masterlooter has been the standard loot option for 14 years, means that not only the classic community wanted and used this, but the entire raiding playerbase of wow from beginning to end, wanted this.

Do you have an argument that says otherwise, or are you going to just flail around like a fucking magikarp?

He can't even answer you properly. People like him only know a 1.12 patch server.

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Here is a prime example of the complete lack of logic within the 'no changes' crowd.

1. You have a system that literally everyone prefers over free for all - master loot.
2. You know that not having it caused massive amounts of ninja looting, in practically every raid guild ever, and especially every pug ever.
3. You know that if the servers progress like they did 13 years ago, they will get it within half a year, anyway
4. And yet rather than just ensure it is implemented on day 1, to ensure that tons of ninja looting will be removed from the game, you'd rather have countless raids ruined by this one, tiny, minuscule change that does NOTHING other than help raiders be a bit more protected against griefing.

You guys are insane. Absolutely fucking insane.

That's okay, I don't think Blizz will listen to fools like that anyways. I mean how many versions of AV were there in Vanilla itself? At least 3? Even if they follow a weird patch structure that was close to Vanilla 13 years ago I'm pretty damn sure they know better than having master loot turned off for X months because their feelz.

[Sliske]

Another example of a retailer. He hates vanilla and all private servers. I wouldn't be surprised to see him quote himself when he later says the classic community doesn't even know what it wants, as if he was part of it.

the classic community doesn't exist, you absolute animal. The people commenting in this thread are people that want to play vanilla. The fact that some of them played a shoddy private server is irrelevant. The fact that some of them play Legion is irrelevant.

You have no arguments, you provide no rebuttals to my arguments. Your posts are wasted bandwidth.

[Deleted]

This thread has me laughing so hard. So retailer is the next new insult?

Take that you miserable retailer! Never mind him, he's just a retailer. Damn, those retailers ruin everything...

[Orby]

Classic WoW is easy anyway, just look how they did it on the Private realms and copy that. I think Blizzard know this. All they have to do is clean out the game breaking bugs and exploits that would ruin the game for others.

As long as we basically get a vanilla experience.

[Orby]

Incoming 10 retailers saying master loot is an issue.

Well there were loads of issues in vanilla WoW but what matters is as long as they are not game breaking or exploiting I say keep them in, only the exploits and bugs really need to be kept out.

[Phookah]

Yea. I disagree with you, so I am a troll.

Thats like, the entire basis of your argument.

Pot, kettle, kettle, pot.

[Sliske]

You realise that you're trying to discuss something with a retail troll? Then you're also adding fuel to the fire by suggesting that mater looter is an issue to the classic community. It isn't, there was no discussion, except for one (self-declared) retailer saying it is.

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Arena-tournament was better than retail. Sheesh, retail couldn't even produce a functional armory, let alone a working spectator client or add things like soloqueue (whit AT did).

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In 99 out of 100 cases, it's retailers that talk about the supposed "true" version of vanilla.

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Why do retailers always want to start with 1.00?

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You're factually wrong. Most people in this thread don't want to play vanilla. A lot of them actually want it to fail. Check their post history.

Your argument is, like so many retailer's out there, that vanilla must start at 1.00 to be the "true experience" (another term used by retailers telling the classic community how classic should be). Which is ok, that can be your opinion, I just don't see why it should matter to the classic community, the ones that asked for vanilla.

That isn't my argument at all. My argument is that there are two very differing opinions - the folks that want the naxxramas patch at launch and the folks that want the servers to progress.

My argument against Naxxramas patch folks is that seeing as the content will be so easy to modern day raiders, everything will be cleared within a few months and the classic server project will be a failure. But, at the same time, the naxxramas patch was easily the best patch in vanilla wow in terms of balance and just general game bug fixes.

My argument against the progression style servers is that this will be a massive, massive undertaking for Blizzard and will be a complete shit show. Blizzard does NOT want to recreate a dozen patches and launch them in a similar time scale of vanilla - thats just an absurd request. Do you seriously want Blizzard to keep nerfing and buffing the damage of mortal strike from patch to patch? That is a waste of resources.

In my opinion the best approach is to take the naxxramas patch balance , game features and bug fixes and use that as the starting point. Then, gradually release the raids and dungeons every few months. This is the best of both worlds, it is the most logically consistent and is the least amount of resources required upfront.

YOUR argument, on the other hand, is that you want Blizzard to swaddle you, and recreate the exact vanilla experience from 2004, which you don't know about, because lets be real, you didn't play it. Your argument is that Blizzard should continuously buff and nerf abilities, for your amusement alone, when you already know the outcome (the naxxramas patch). Your argument is that blizzard should waste their time and resources on the thousands upon thousands of reports and GM tickets over ninja looted items, just because you want to experience the game without masterloot, for like 6 months.

Your argument is selfish against both the player base and Blizzard. Your argument is void of logic. Your argument seems like something someone wanting classic to fail would suggest.

[Bigbazz]

You stalked a guy on battlenet, screenshotted it and then posted it to MMO-champ? You need to switch off the computer and go outside more, maybe come back closer to Vanilla launch for the sake of your sanity.

[Martymark]

As a "retailer" with an active subscription since the day WOW came out...I think Vanilla should be fucking brutal. Not a single improvement, including graphically. I'm not joking.

[Sliske]

It fits a certain wow demographics very well and that's why it's used, but it's not an insult per se.

Oh fuck off. You use it as a pejorative the same way wrath baby was used. Your comments show a distinct lack of knowledge about classic servers and since you didn't play retail vanilla your only experience is likely from 1.12 private servers , where entire raids are cleared on the first fucking day by people in leveling blues.

You've yet to actually give a defence for 'no changes', yet you continue to spout it like a broken record. Your only response to people making you look like a hapless retard in this thread is to call them retailers and then move on. Its what you will do to this post, as well.

[Sliske]

Here's my defence. QoL changes are a slippery slope.

There's plenty of changes I wouldn't mind by themselves (graphics switch being one of them for example).

Master loot was already in vanilla, for fucks sake. It just wasn't at the first few months of vanilla. You're so logically inconsistent it hurts. Please try to argue that you hated ML and loved free for all.

Go on. Give us all a good laugh.

[Hyral]

Retailer is a strange term. The topic is really just divided between Normal People who hold different opinions and Zealous Purists.

Also, isn't this name and shame? Though that wasn't allowed, surprised the pictures are still up.

[rootbeerboy]

OP got banned. Ripperoni

[Projectmars]

Another example of a retailer. He hates vanilla and all private servers. I wouldn't be surprised to see him quote himself when he later says the classic community doesn't even know what it wants, as if he was part of it.

Eh, I started playing the December before TBC launched and took about half a year to level a character due to a combination of lack of knowledge, dealing with classes, and spending enough time on the forums to where my inability to hit max level became a running gag of sorts. So no, I doubt I could honestly ever claim to be part of Vanilla WoW.

And yes, private servers, a majority of which seem to be 2x, 3x times experience or just grant you free level 60s with each account and offer “donation bonuses” and tend to shut down abruptly for little reason at all or vanish in a massive cloud of drama. Clearly paragons of gaming.

And no, I honestly believe that starting from the beginning and progressing from there is a better way to do a Classic server instead of beginning at the last content patch and having things artificially locked and later released (or just having those available from the get-go) since doing it naturally like this would allow for a better representation of what Classic WoW was.

[Deleted]

I heard someone use this term before... What... Is a 'retailer'? I know what the ACTUAL term is but what is it in connection with the WoW community?

It's a label the sect of the classic fans that want 0 change are trying to use for those who don't agree with them. It's part of tribal psychology to find labels for boxes so that group identity can be applied to foster an US vs them conflict escalation and entrenched there own identity further to protect the collective ego.

You see it all the time in politics.

Humans are just monkeys throwing the same shit just on a different day.

[Projectmars]

I've yet to see someone that isn't a retail troll suggest patch progression.

Which makes me wonder when I supposedly suggested starting at 1.00. It's always retailers that want that.

I’ve seen the argument that some of the catch-up mechanics introduced in later patches (the Dungeon Blue .5 tier and Dire Maul stuff) do take a fair amount of difficulty out of the first few raids. So I doubt it’s just the merchants that would prefer patch progression.

[Lochton]

They did claim new models cost too many resources.

Yes but not that it was the halt of the expansion.

Because old ones are superior imo.

Subjective.

If they can actually make their new models good enough and feel like old models as what they said at the beginning, it wont be that bad.

What is good enough as the old models? What stage is that?

The fact is that it is too bad.

Subjective.

Some people want that =/= I want that.

Oh...my...god...I know you are banned but when you return, look at this phrase and realize how your thread is. For you could learn something from it.

Oh, I have to agree new models are good right right?

I am happy you're banned, this'll be a pointless answer but you are on purpose taking things out of context.

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It's a label the sect of the classic fans that want 0 change are trying to use for those who don't agree with them. It's part of tribal psychology to find labels for boxes so that group identity can be applied to foster an US vs them conflict escalation and entrenched there own identity further to protect the collective ego.

You see it all the time in politics.

Humans are just monkeys throwing the same shit just on a different day.

As long as you don't put all of us in that box. I don't want changes either but I'm not going blazing out the door like the OP.

[Projectmars]

That was a valid concern that came up, but at least the classic community prefers gating to the messy patch progression (same for pvp gear).

Just because that’s what the Private Servers do because they are mostly limited to that option by the means they use to run those servers. I personally would be fine playing through the messier older patches. I never got much of a chance to play before when I did and would love to play Classic as close to it was back in the day, warts and all. Yeah it’s messy but that’s the point.

[Projectmars]

More patches = more programming = more bugs = bug fixes introduce new bugs = mess. Even if it's made by professional Blizzard programmers, there's bound to be lots and lots of issues, especially for a smaller team. A lot of early vanilla was also wank and is probably better left out.

This would only really make sense if you wanted to make a nostalgia trip, but that's not really what classic is about.

Oh good, at least you aren’t one of those “Oh Em Gee It’s Obveosly gonna be out by the end of next Summer gusy becaws its so ezay an they obveeously r almost dun!!1!” People. That crowd rubs me the wrong way, if you couldn’t tell.

And that is true, I suppose. However if they do have all the old coding and patch revisions and stuff stored (like a lot of people think/expect), then it is possible that the methods they are using to bring back Classic WoW could be applied to those patches in order to make a progressive server that lacks any unexpected errors work. It does depend on just how much work it would take and their willingness to do so in that case then, but I think it is possible it could work without much going critically wrong.

[Zindai]

Still wating for you to prove that!

And I'm curious why Blizzard would kill people for Elite Tauren Chieftain.