How Can She Get Away With It?

[OIS]

https://i.imgur.com/Q3sB7Vc.png

Lovely. Made me blow some air out of my nose.

We could start a petition :3

If it's accepted, would it be Horde bias?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

We get it, you guys really hate her for doing... things that are A-Okay in war.

Nah you don't get it; we do not agree on this point. 's ok; it's just a game and we can agree to disagree.

[Mehrunes]

Deluded, absolutely deluded. As a horde player you're probably the worst kind of blatant fanboy out there who knows nothing about alliance.

You're seriously blaming an entire war on Varians response to the wrath gate event 4 expansions later. Horde has always been the aggressors, if you don't like it just switch factions, maybe that'll educate you more on the current lore instead of being so damn one sided.

Entire war? No. Again, what's with your reading comprehension? Starting the war? Yes. Who'd have thunk, the person starting the war is to blame for the start of the war. A miraculous concept fer sure.

And do explain how Varian's response, i.e. a declaration of war, i.e. aggression, towards actions performed by people who weren't Horde anymore and who attacked the Horde even before Wrathgate, capturing a Horde city, is a case of "Horde has always been the aggressors". Enlighten me. I'm sure it's going to be mind-blowing. Especially since the Wrathgate event and the ending of the Battle for the Undercity quest is the same for both factions, so you can't even hide behind your hurrdurring about me not knowing anything about Alliance there.

The purge of Dalaran started with the blood elves breaking neutrality by using kirin tor resources to steal the divine bell. The whole "siege of undercity" anger stopped once Varian became level-headed during cata, followed by Garrosh going into power. You can literally find all this info online nevermind the books.
Stop being a brat.

I just schooled another Alliance genius, the one who you defended in your initial shitpost addressed to me, two posts above my reply to you while providing sources. You could have saved MMO-C's server space and the time of both of us and read it instead living up to your user name and vomiting abject drivel all over the place. Nothing stopped in Cata given the war restarted at its beginning. At best you'd have an argument for the time period between expansions.

Except even that argument would have been shit, given how Night Elves broke a trade treaty that was supposed to repair relations between the factions and during a time when the factions tried to achieve peace by attending Theramore peace summits, using Wrathgate as the justification for breaking it, months after it had happened. Varian himself was so level headed during that time period he demanded Orc heads for a suspicious attack that was actually performed by the Twilight Hammer to stir shit up, saw Thrall refusing to do so in the name of actually investigating things as a slight and then accused the Horde of trying to assassinate him because he saw Garona. Such level-headed champion of good.

As for Purge of Dalaran, which part of "before" is beyond your comprehension? Because whether you like it or not, Jaina was in Darnassus aiding the Night Elves against the Horde, by personally capturing and/or killing Horde soldiers trying to enter the city, before the Bell was stolen. I.e. before a lone Sunreaver broke Dalaran neutrality. I know, before is a hard word for you, but it is what it is.

Jaina even talks about trapping the Horde soldiers herself. So perhaps you should listen to your own advice and switch factions if you don't like. Maybe that'll educate you more. Oh, shit, she says that in the Alliance quest. So, I dunno, actually play the game and try to get the slightest clue about anything pertaining to the topic before you write vomit princess material about it? Seems applicable here.

Stop being you.

If it's accepted, would it be Horde bias?

Everything that exists is HORDE BIAS, so yes.

[Octavius]

And having Thrall be a recurring character in Cata, even putting aside his neutral role after he stepped down from the position of Warchief and dedicated himself to the Earthen Ring's cause, makes Cata a Horde focused expansion how, exactly? What, do the other recurring characters like the Aspects not count? Does Malfurion's role in Hyjal storyline not count? Do elaborate. Particularly the reason for you already moving your motherfucking goalposts from an expansion focusing only on the Horde to just focusing on the Horde.

MoP focused on the faction war in full. Which kinda makes it automatic that both factions were focused on. For every Horde plot there was an equivalent Alliance one. Including SoO, which despite Garrosh (after he already cast out the playable Horde from his True Horde) being the final boss, had faction specific differences, which is somewhat unique for raids. And can you at least maintain some degree of internal consistency? Later on you go on how Alliance totally and unequivocally won the war, yet the expansion "focuses only on the Horde"?

And WoD was about alternate universe Orcs that have jack shit to do with the playable Horde. It also focused on slaughtering those Orcs. So yes, be a dear and actually explain yourself rather than hiding behind some bullshit accusations like a coward.




Yeah, no, Varian started the war in Wrath. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Alliance-Horde_war Specifically, in this quest:https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:The_...ercity_(Horde) The fact that the war began in WotLK is further supported by the factions undergoing a peace process in form of a truce and peace summits that were supposed to achieve a peace treaty during the events of the Shattering book. Northwatch broke the post-WotLK truce, as per https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kilrok_Gorehammer#Quotes Garrosh started his invasion only after the Cataclysm happened. Due to things like the words "before" and "after" conveying specific messaged and chronology existing, Garrosh attacked Ashenvale only after Northwatch attacked the Barrens.

And a status of a superpower means nothing in and on itself. US is the only super power right now. It doesn't WAY outgun China and chooses to do nothing with the Chinese expanding their sphere of influence, even through underhanded means like those they use in the South China Sea.

Also, the Alliance won the war against Garrosh's True Horde. Not the playable New Horde. The New Horde rebelled and joined Alliance. You don't get to demand land from your cobelligerent. And while the Alliance may have outgunned the Horde in general terms, the leaders present in SoO did not. Without Malfurion and Velen the Horde leaders had more immediate power at the scene. Had Varian pursued further war, the Alliance leadership was likely to get shattered, making any potential military advantage rather meaningless.

Furthermore, after MoP Alliance lost more than the Horde. They lost Nethergarde and Taylor's entire expedition while the Horde lost nothing in WoD. In Legion they lost one of their last gunships while the Horde lost some ships. The advantage they had after MoP dwindled since then.

And finally, your super amazing superpower WAY outgunning the Horde was the one to cede territory to the Horde in the following peace treaty, not the other way around. Says something about how significant their superpowerdom was in the long term.

You have fuck all to base your claims on, let alone your nonsensical and reactionary accusations of supposed headcanon on my part. So kindly get lost and stop polluting lore forum with actually provable fanfiction on your part.




Yes, supporting your fallacious horseshit with projection is totes legit going to work. Especially since my reply to you didn't even touch the topics your previous fallacious horseshit was about. Makes all the sense.




We could start a petition :3

It's easy for horde players putting the head under the sand. Cata alliance storyline was retarded, really no attention and respect at all for half of the player base, we had green jesus everywhere, we lost everywhere for idiotic reasons, even where we should be stronger, but ehi, "cuz garrosh's hord is ztrongher". We lost theramore which was a symbol, we had people like malfurion, with ashenvale in flames, staying neutral, while green jesus in mop surely and quickly come back horde. Majority of our charcaters got totally undeveloped, gilneas went under a tree vs bilgewater getting a fairly big city, the invasion of silverpine went asses because the daughter of one commander was abducted (wtf? with the 7 legion fielded, the glf having fought for a while and the bloodfangs, what the hell of reason is that? Really, Dave Kosak find another job) and a thousand more reasons... Mop was ally vs horde + pandaren who have suffered more than any other, yes, but everything was around that overgrown child who was leading the horde. Warlords was orcs every corner, and again we lost more for no reason. So hey, legion is heavely around ally characters? They are more linked to the story of legion, and after 3 xpacs is only fair. And still we'll get our big tree in ashes soon, so the party is already over.

Note: horde lost the gunship too at the broken shore. On the other and, we plus lost the skyfire, cause genn is retarded and sylvanas must always win, even if you should not be able to put a gunship down with seaships (yeah, a raid from some parties placing bombs... with the skyfire guarded with elite alliance troops.. sure, makes a lot of sense).
Note2: The treaty of orgrimmar took back ashenvale for the alliance, and let the horde azshara. Something about the ruins of theramore and gilneas was hinted but hey, doing really that would've given the alliance some dignity, not the way the dev had in that moment.

[Mehrunes]

It's easy for horde players putting the head under the sand. Cata alliance storyline was retarded, really no attention and respect at all for half of the player base, we had green jesus everywhere, we lost everywhere for idiotic reasons, even where we should be stronger, but ehi, "cuz garrosh's hord is ztrongher". We lost theramore which was a symbol, we had people like malfurion, with ashenvale in flames, staying neutral, while green jesus in mop surely and quickly come back horde. Majority of our charcaters got totally undeveloped, gilneas went under a tree vs bilgewater getting a fairly big city, the invasion of silverpine went asses because the daughter of one commander was abducted (wtf? with the 7 legion fielded, the glf having fought for a while and the bloodfangs, what the hell of reason is that? Really, Dave Kosak find another job) and a thousand more reasons... Mop was ally vs horde + pandaren who have suffered more than any other, yes, but everything was around that overgrown child who was leading the horde. Warlords was orcs every corner, and again we lost more for no reason. So hey, legion is heavely around ally characters? They are more linked to the story of legion, and after 3 xpacs is only fair. And still we'll get our big tree in ashes soon, so the party is already over.

Does Alliance storyline being retarded magically prove that the focus was on the Horde? No. It proves difference in quality, not quantity. Kinda different concepts. Quality of a story is subjective anyway, so good luck with that tangent.

Also, stretching forces too thin is a thing. One that Varian apparently had a hard-on for. Garrosh focused on central Kalimdor, particularly on border zone of Ashenvale. Sylvanas focused on sparsely populated border regions too. Alliance right off the bat invaded even Durotar or WPL (after they lost any supply routes to it) instead of securing its positions first. An which areas in which you should be stronger did you lose at?

And what was Theramore symbol of? Also, what's this? I thought lack of consequences was proof of HORDE BIAS. But Alliance city surrounded by Horde heartland from multiple sides and the central stage for Alliance aggression facing consequences of Varian fighting like a retard is also HORDE BIAS? Oh, right everything is HORDE BIAS.

Also, what Thrall did in MoP isn't really an argument for Cata, is it now? Malfurion had better things to do with Hyjal burning even more with Deathwing puking Ragnaros out and an entrance to Firelands popping right there, or with Azshara making an appearance.

And majority of your characters got no development? Wow, that must suck. Compared to the Horde with all that sweet development of Gallywix not having a unique model until Legion, Vol'jin having one line about how Garrosh offends his sensibilities, Baine supposedly existing and even Sylvanas disappearing after low level zones ended.

Bilgewater Harbour is like 1/3rd the gun and serves no real purpose other than sending players to TH, Silverpine was already swinging in the way of the Forsaken again even before Sylvanas used blackmail to save time, with 7th Legion and Ambermill already dealt with, the Bloodfang Pack continued to fight in Hillsbrad.

MoP still had equal amount of stories for both factions, with multiple faction leaders making an appearance, Blizzard specifically going out of their way to give Alliance a fistbump moment to appease their incessant whining about HORDE BIAS everywhere (which already started in WotLK because who knows why).

And WoD Orcs still have no significant link to the playable Horde. If sharing a race is HORDE BIAS then factions like the Cult of the Damned, Druids of the Flame and so on and so forth are equally ALLIANCE BIAS. Except this never swings both ways for Alliance players, because fallacies abound.

As for Legion, Alliance is more linked to it? Dranei, sure. Night Elves, sure. But Orcs that were their slaves do not count? Forsaken wiped out and turned into what they are by their creations do not count? Blood Elves that were the sole target of the last invasion do not count?

Also, Velen is one of the main characters, whatever. But 7.2.0 was the first patch ever that had a faction exclusive storyline for just one faction. With that faction being Alliance. And this, as opposed to your opening here, is an objective issue of quantity (well, it automatically makes the quality zero, I suppose). And yet, the reaction of the Alliance players whining about HORDE BIAS for a century can be summed up by a video of tumbleweed.

Then again their reaction to Alliance having more zones prior to Cata, which was the reason why Blizzard had to redistribute them to begin with (which of course was more HORDE BIAS even though it was fixing observable and countable Alliance bias) was the exact same, so I guess 'twas to be expected.

Note: horde lost the gunship too at the broken shore. On the other and, we plus lost the skyfire, cause genn is retarded and sylvanas must always win, even if you should not be able to put a gunship down with seaships (yeah, a raid from some parties placing bombs... with the skyfire guarded with elite alliance troops.. sure, makes a lot of sense).

If you count the ones from the cinematic, then the Alliance still lost one there and in the end lost more gunships total. Also, given how the Horde gunships haven't been presented as a centerpiece of their military for a long time, which is somewhat different for the Alliance, even if the amount of lost gunships was the same the impact of that would be different for each faction.

And weirdly enough Alliance isn't the only faction that discovered the concept of elite troops. The party was led by Nathanos himself. Also, as seen in the Horde beginning of MoP, gunships can be swarmed by a large force of smaller aerial targets. Which is exactly what happened here.

Note2: The treaty of orgrimmar took back ashenvale for the alliance, and let the horde azshara. Something about the ruins of theramore and gilneas was hinted but hey, doing really that would've given the alliance some dignity, not the way the dev had in that moment.

But Ashenvale was never officially Horde's. Horde agreeing to fuck off from it was just restoring the proper order of things. Which is a different situation to what happened with Azshara.

[Grythletubs]

Entire war? No. Again, what's with your reading comprehension? Starting the war? Yes. Who'd have thunk, the person starting the war is to blame for the start of the war. A miraculous concept fer sure.

And do explain how Varian's response, i.e. a declaration of war, i.e. aggression, towards actions performed by people who weren't Horde anymore and who attacked the Horde even before Wrathgate, capturing a Horde city, is a case of "Horde has always been the aggressors". Enlighten me. I'm sure it's going to be mind-blowing. Especially since the Wrathgate event and the ending of the Battle for the Undercity quest is the same for both factions, so you can't even hide behind your hurrdurring about me not knowing anything about Alliance there.




I just schooled another Alliance genius, the one who you defended in your initial shitpost addressed to me, two posts above my reply to you while providing sources. You could have saved MMO-C's server space and the time of both of us and read it instead living up to your user name and vomiting abject drivel all over the place. Nothing stopped in Cata given the war restarted at its beginning. At best you'd have an argument for the time period between expansions.

Except even that argument would have been shit, given how Night Elves broke a trade treaty that was supposed to repair relations between the factions and during a time when the factions tried to achieve peace by attending Theramore peace summits, using Wrathgate as the justification for breaking it, months after it had happened. Varian himself was so level headed during that time period he demanded Orc heads for a suspicious attack that was actually performed by the Twilight Hammer to stir shit up, saw Thrall refusing to do so in the name of actually investigating things as a slight and then accused the Horde of trying to assassinate him because he saw Garona. Such level-headed champion of good.

As for Purge of Dalaran, which part of "before" is beyond your comprehension? Because whether you like it or not, Jaina was in Darnassus aiding the Night Elves against the Horde, by personally capturing and/or killing Horde soldiers trying to enter the city, before the Bell was stolen. I.e. before a lone Sunreaver broke Dalaran neutrality. I know, before is a hard word for you, but it is what it is.

Jaina even talks about trapping the Horde soldiers herself. So perhaps you should listen to your own advice and switch factions if you don't like. Maybe that'll educate you more. Oh, shit, she says that in the Alliance quest. So, I dunno, actually play the game and try to get the slightest clue about anything pertaining to the topic before you write vomit princess material about it? Seems applicable here.

Stop being you.




Everything that exists is HORDE BIAS, so yes.

"The Purge of Dalaran was a civil war within the Kirin Tor that took place as part of the Alliance-Horde War on Pandaria. It saw elements of the Kirin Tor order, along with the Silver Covenant and forces of Stormwind, attempt to purge the blood elven Sunreavers faction from the city of Dalaran. The conflict began when it was discovered that Kirin Tor resources had been used to aid the Horde's theft of the Divine Bell, an ancient pandaren artefact. Lady Jaina Proudmoore, leader of the Kirin Tor, accused Archmage Aethas Sunreaver and his faction of having orchestrated the treason, and promptly declared the expulsion of all Sunreaver forces from Dalaran. It transpired that, while not having been directly involved in the theft himself,[1] Aethas had been aware of it and chose to remain silent.[2]"

The denial is strong with this one. Horde are the aggressors with minor greyzones here and there (such as the tauren and trolls not really being involved in the petty squabbles). Varian declaring war doesn't make him the aggressor, that's his response to the wrath gate because it was horde, despite it being a sub-group within the horde. Just like Garrosh's Horde was technically a sub-group considering he excluded everyone who didn't agree with his genocidal plans.

Everything that has existed up to Legion has been horde bias, yes. Have you seen the way Blizzard has portrayed alliance since wotlk up to Legion? It's been non-stop orc smash, plaguing and head collecting whereas the alliance pick dandylions and hide behind their shields. Heck even Jaina has done everything out of response to some blatant aggressions whether they're been extreme or not.
Legion did a complete 180 by making is basically alliance only with Khadgar Mcdudebro and Illidan constantly shoved in our faces (which was also bs).

[Syegfryed]

we had green jesus everywhere

one dungeon, one raid, and the intro quest of goblins, but yeah "everywhere", funny how you guys can actually say shit about a - neutral - thrall, who did nothing for the horde, but for the wolrd, when Malfurian was present in firelands and hyjal with more screen time than thrall

we lost everywhere for idiotic reasons

,
They made the aliance lose, so things would be more equal, because the alliance had the upper hand the entire vanilla story line, they just make the hing a bit fair with the old world revamp.

even where we should be stronger,

LUL

We lost theramore which was a symbol

a symbol of hypocrisy

we had people like malfurion, with ashenvale in flames, staying neutral, while green jesus in mop surely and quickly come back horde.

what are you talking about, malfurion i tagger as aliance racial elader and night leader since forever.

Majority of our charcaters got totally undeveloped

wanna talk about undeveloped characters when we stay 2 entire expansion without a racial leader? so cute

Mop was ally vs horde + pandaren who have suffered more than any other, yes, but everything was around that overgrown child who was leading the horde.

then you did not even play the expansion at all to talk this fam

Warlords was orcs every corner

yeah classic, if is orcs, is horde focus and bias, no matter if they aren't horde.

legion is heavely around ally characters?

its really hard to say that when they removed the horde from the equation, Horde was almost entirely absent in legion, even in the neutral roles, you can cry all you want, but this never happened with the alliance

[Dagoth Ur]

snip

I think I am really gonna miss Garrosh in BfA after this lol.

BfA would probably be the best time of his life!

[Arrashi]

I think I am really gonna miss Garrosh in BfA after this lol.

BfA would probably be the best time of his life!

The fun thing is that so far it looks like everyone in horde is super fine with that war.

But when garrosh wanted to do some good'ol warring, then everyone was holier than thou pacifist dalailama wannabe.

[Dagoth Ur]

The fun thing is that so far it looks like everyone in horde is super fine with that war.

But when garrosh wanted to do some good'ol warring, then everyone was holier than thou pacifist dalailama wannabe.

Yep! Garrosh pioneered the whole Kalimdor for the Horde idea in the first place! Doesn't look that crazy and warmonger-y now eh? Baine? Thrall? Vol.. nvm.

Either way, Garrosh's vision will be realized in BfA. Dude was ahead of his time, if only he was alive to see it. :*(

[Friendlyimmolation]

Yep! Garrosh pioneered the whole Kalimdor for the Horde idea in the first place! Doesn't look that crazy and warmonger-y now eh? Baine? Thrall? Vol.. nvm.

Either way, Garrosh's vision will be realized in BfA. Dude was ahead of his time, if only he was alive to see it. :*(

“I only called you a bitch because I love you,” - Garrosh from orc heaven to Sylvanas.

[Magnagarde]

Something I've seen nobody mention when it comes to Sylvanas is how she had her most elite dark rangers and banshees scour Gilneas to actually steal the Scythe of Elune in order to turn each and every human into a feral worgen beast. One out of many of her character's malicious plans.

[Niwes]

5 steps to make blizzard crap lore great again (horde wise):

- get rid of that fukin „horde are the bad guys“ shit, blizz do since a few years.
- get rid of all that half lame chars, like Gallywix or Baine douchebag, staring stupid while Garrosh killing his dad.
- make etrigg or saurfang or someone along those lines warchief.
- bring back united tribal/council feeling to horde.
- bring back honor and life for the fight to the horde.

be happy again.

[Captain Douchebag]

5 steps to make blizzard crap lore great again (horde wise):

- get rid of that fukin „horde are the bad guys“ shit, blizz do since a few years.
- get rid of all that half lame chars, like Gallywix or Baine douchebag, staring stupid while Garrosh killing his dad.
- make etrigg or saurfang or someone along those lines warchief.
- bring back united tribal/council feeling to horde.
- bring back honor and life for the fight to the horde.

be happy again.

That's an awful lot to ask for. I smell Horde bias.

[OIS]

Yep! Garrosh pioneered the whole Kalimdor for the Horde idea in the first place! Doesn't look that crazy and warmonger-y now eh? Baine? Thrall? Vol.. nvm.

Either way, Garrosh's vision will be realized in BfA. Dude was ahead of his time, if only he was alive to see it. :*(

He put the war in Warchief. He was that kind of orc. But alas, good things never last.

[Skoll Shorties]

I can't see them retreading history with Sylvanas here.

To me it looks like they're going to change her character to be fitting for Warchief rather than making her another Garrosh 2.0. From my understanding the Horde are supporting Sylvanas and I don't think it'll stay in reluctance with how the Alliance reacts - they will fuel the fire of war. We still don't enough information on why the War starts and I would rather wait until we get the book to supply us that information.

I honestly prefer them reworking Sylvanas rather than having her just become yet another antagonist. Again, I wouldn't want the Horde painted as the bad guys quite the opposite actually as I would prefer if the Alliance starts this conflict and are painted in more of a negative light. That or just have neither the Alliance or Horde as bad but very very grey.

- - - Updated - - -

5 steps to make blizzard crap lore great again (horde wise):

- get rid of that fukin „horde are the bad guys“ shit, blizz do since a few years.
- get rid of all that half lame chars, like Gallywix or Baine douchebag, staring stupid while Garrosh killing his dad.
- make etrigg or saurfang or someone along those lines warchief.
- bring back united tribal/council feeling to horde.
- bring back honor and life for the fight to the horde.

be happy again.

I like Baine, not sure why he is a Douchebag or stupid but you're clearly biased to Orcs. I don't want us playing tick tac Warchief with every expansion, let Sylvanas stick in that chair for a while or just put Thrall back in it for good. The Horde should evolve and not stay the same the Horde is still rather similar to what it was even without Thrall, Garrosh, or Vol'jin. Bring honor and life? The Horde has that.

If you're not happy with the current Horde that's your issue. Get with the times or just grumble on the forums.

[Octavius]

one dungeon, one raid, and the intro quest of goblins, but yeah "everywhere", funny how you guys can actually say shit about a - neutral - thrall, who did nothing for the horde, but for the wolrd, when Malfurian was present in firelands and hyjal with more screen time than thrall

,
They made the aliance lose, so things would be more equal, because the alliance had the upper hand the entire vanilla story line, they just make the hing a bit fair with the old world revamp.



LUL


a symbol of hypocrisy


what are you talking about, malfurion i tagger as aliance racial elader and night leader since forever.



wanna talk about undeveloped characters when we stay 2 entire expansion without a racial leader? so cute



then you did not even play the expansion at all to talk this fam



yeah classic, if is orcs, is horde focus and bias, no matter if they aren't horde.



its really hard to say that when they removed the horde from the equation, Horde was almost entirely absent in legion, even in the neutral roles, you can cry all you want, but this never happened with the alliance

1) Yeah, One raid, one dungeon, just the ones where we end the world threats... nothing really! And acted as neutral (acting because, you know, WAS TAGGED AS HORDE) for less than an expansion (goblins intro he was doing hordy things).
2)This could be ok, If you read the post without the famous horde "bias", you'll see I'm complaining about the alliance losing like complete idiots, not losing in itself. Example: we lost in southern barrens. It's ok, close to orgrimmar, has lot of sense. But in the swamp of sorrow, stormwind's courtyard in practice, we were only able to reach a stupid stalemate even with a sizable army present, against a single horde town. Do not read only what you want to.
3)I'm happy you laugh, but in EK the alliance is stronger in most regions. Only the ones near forseken lands see horde prevalence, and even in it, like silverpine, the way they made us lose was awful. Lore does not care about what makes you laugh.
4) No, a symbol of what happens in the third war, warcraft 3, which is a fan favourite.
5)This is the funniest one, showing how much you're not unbiased: Malfurion could be tagged however you want, but with a war in the sacred forests of the night elves, he did absolutely nothing about it. Another thing you cannot change, that's it, and it's honestly irritating.
6) the community was on overdose of orcs, so the 1 and half xpac you stayed without a racial leader is at least understandable. And I do not start saying the horde was in better condition in all points, my point is the ally players have many reasons to be unsatisfied. Devs are often complete idiots in general, there are plenty of orc characters undeveloped, from nazgrel, ariok, the niece of varok and so on...
7)Pls, give us a complete objective and 100% accurate lore description of mop, then. Cause garrosh was clearly not the focus.
8) the orcs are an horde theme, so yes.
9)I was just admitting it, but adding also it was fair. Just read what I write, pls.

[Syegfryed]

1) Yeah, One raid, one dungeon, just the ones where we end the world threats... nothing really! And acted as neutral (acting because, you know, WAS TAGGED AS HORDE) for less than an expansion (goblins intro he was doing hordy things).

he wasnt tagged as horde, and he was not doing horde things, he was saving the world, both alliance and horde, and his job was divided with the other aspects, Tirion got more spotlight ( btw in the goblin quest he was not doing horde things he was traveling to maelstrom when the alliance capture and try to kill him, what a goofyball)

2)This could be ok, If you read the post without the famous horde "bias", you'll see I'm complaining about the alliance losing like complete idiots, not losing in itself. Example: we lost in southern barrens. It's ok, close to orgrimmar, has lot of sense. But in the swamp of sorrow, stormwind's courtyard in practice, we were only able to reach a stupid stalemate even with a sizable army present, against a single horde town. Do not read only what you want to.

its only a "stupid" if you want to be, rly, i pretty sure varian was about other places than a swamp, who is not that good to 1) march with a army or 2) build a base

3)I'm happy you laugh, but in EK the alliance is stronger in most regions. Only the ones near forseken lands see horde prevalence, and even in it, like silverpine, the way they made us lose was awful. Lore does not care about what makes you laugh.

no matter the size of your army if you are going against a chemical weapon, and again, balance the things, cataclysm is all about that, if you think is bias, or it was huge change, it was because it was even worse for the horde in vanila until wtlk

4) No, a symbol of what happens in the third war, warcraft 3, which is a fan favourite.

own, too bad things change, and things never stay the same for long, bad things happens to both factions, we destroy theramore who was just "symbol" (when was total legit target) and you guys raid orgrimmar who have both history and symbolism, and it was a damn capital. i would rather have orgrimmar destroyed

5)This is the funniest one, showing how much you're not unbiased: Malfurion could be tagged however you want, but with a war in the sacred forests of the night elves, he did absolutely nothing about it. Another thing you cannot change, that's it, and it's honestly irritating.

he is a alliance leader, if he did nothing about something, is because he is a dumbass, not my fault, he is a night elf leader thus alliance leader

about doing nothing when you people are in war we can compare him with baine, so yeah

6) the community was on overdose of orcs, so the 1 and half xpac you stayed without a racial leader is at least understandable. And I do not start saying the horde was in better condition in all points, my point is the ally players have many reasons to be unsatisfied. Devs are often complete idiots in general, there are plenty of orc characters undeveloped, from nazgrel, ariok, the niece of varok and so on..

.

wait what? fucking bullshit, people don't like the orcs so lets fuck their lore? thats it? they should at least said one leader, it not understandable, its bullshit. its ok don't give then development but make then absent? no thanks.

and ha, did you forget the entire legion the horde stayed with no trolls racial leader as well, after they kill vol'jin in a pathetic way?

7)Pls, give us a complete objective and 100% accurate lore description of mop, then. Cause garrosh was clearly not the focus.

if you don't play the game why should i make a sinopse about? go to the quests on the ally side

8) the orcs are an horde theme, so yes.

you are delusion, the expansion had the same quantity of draeneis than orcs, but they are the good guys, but no, actually archimond was the final boss, thus a eredar aka draenei, so wod was clearly alliance focus expansion.

9)I was just admitting it, but adding also it was fair. Just read what I write, pls.

it is fair remove one faction on the game of 2 factions because the alliance lose something in the past? what a fucking bullshit

again, the alliance never stayed in a expansion like this, in every "horde bias expansion" the alliance get lore and major roles as well, this did not happen with the horde in legion. Its totally legit if you want a more alliance expansion, thats ok, but remove the horde from the history and fuck up their lore its not ok

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Yep! Garrosh pioneered the whole Kalimdor for the Horde idea in the first place! Doesn't look that crazy and warmonger-y now eh? Baine? Thrall? Vol.. nvm.

Either way, Garrosh's vision will be realized in BfA. Dude was ahead of his time, if only he was alive to see it. :*(

this is what make my blood boils.

there was a damn war going on,but all leaders acting like it was jut garrosh fault, he was the warmonger, everyone want peace, they crucify him

and now we had BfA, doing exactly the same things we criticize garrosh for hot damianista

[Niwes]

I can't see them retreading history with Sylvanas here.

To me it looks like they're going to change her character to be fitting for Warchief rather than making her another Garrosh 2.0. From my understanding the Horde are supporting Sylvanas and I don't think it'll stay in reluctance with how the Alliance reacts - they will fuel the fire of war. We still don't enough information on why the War starts and I would rather wait until we get the book to supply us that information.

I honestly prefer them reworking Sylvanas rather than having her just become yet another antagonist. Again, I wouldn't want the Horde painted as the bad guys quite the opposite actually as I would prefer if the Alliance starts this conflict and are painted in more of a negative light. That or just have neither the Alliance or Horde as bad but very very grey.

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I like Baine, not sure why he is a Douchebag or stupid but you're clearly biased to Orcs. I don't want us playing tick tac Warchief with every expansion, let Sylvanas stick in that chair for a while or just put Thrall back in it for good. The Horde should evolve and not stay the same the Horde is still rather similar to what it was even without Thrall, Garrosh, or Vol'jin. Bring honor and life? The Horde has that.

If you're not happy with the current Horde that's your issue. Get with the times or just grumble on the forums.

the horde is so NOT what it ever was. no glue since when you play wow. but the WoD+ horde has exactly nothing in common with the horde from the past. especially with the horde from vanilla/TBC. look at all that posts out there. i am not alone, saying this. where have you been the last few years ?

[Flatspriest]

Spoilers, at the end of BFA we unmask sylvanas revealing that she was garrosh all along !

Spoiler: Then, we unmask Garrosh and find out he was Jaina all along and no more masks.