Dear retail players, don't mess this up for us. As damages done will be irreversible.

[Kolbjorn]

I think it will have a better chance if it's released f2p + cash shop.

Keep in mind they won't be grading Classic's performance only on Classic, but on synergies with live/Hearthstone.

I think it'll be one of two things:
1) Free with live subscription, or $5-10/month without live sub.
or
2) Totally free (if you ever bought a WoW product?), with its objective being similar to Diablo, to hold people within the Blizzard app during live content droughts

My guess would be that they'll initially open it just free with live sub, and make decisions based on what they see behaviorally. (not board posts, actual real world behaviors).

[Deleted]

Keep in mind they won't be grading Classic's performance only on Classic, but on synergies with live/Hearthstone.

I think it'll be one of two things:
1) Free with live subscription, or $5-10/month without live sub.
or
2) Totally free (if you ever bought a WoW product?), with its objective being similar to Diablo, to hold people within the Blizzard app during live content droughts

My guess would be that they'll initially open it just free with live sub, and make decisions based on what they see behaviorally. (not board posts, actual real world behaviors).

Its gonna need servers, support staff, GM's bugg fixes, server maintenence and so on. No chance its going to be just free.

I'm 99% sure its going to be part of the retail sub

[Sorcath]

This post screams hypocrisy. If retail players are the entitled ones, what does that make you?

The demographic Blizzard is directly catering towards, like theyve stated over and over. Its like a person who sees a handicap parking(vanilla) and you also want to be handicapped but meet no requirements, then bitch and moan until -boom- being fat is also a disability and you get your piece of the pie too.

If somebody says theyre making x for x players, why should y player matter? You dont, is the answer

[Deleted]

The demographic Blizzard is directly catering towards, like theyve stated over and over. Its like a person who sees a handicap parking(vanilla) and you also want to be handicapped but meet no requirements, then bitch and moan until -boom- being fat is also a disability and you get your piece of the pie too.

If somebody says theyre making x for x players, why should y player matter? You dont, is the answer

Except they havent stated that at all. Which is why they are actively asking their fanbase to vocie their opinions about what they want from a vanilla server, and which is why people like you are shaking in your purists pants and completely tilting at every single mention of enhanced vanilla servers

[Kolbjorn]

Its gonna need servers, support staff, GM's bugg fixes, server maintenence and so on. No chance its going to be just free.

I'm 99% sure its going to be part of the retail sub

All of that is true for Diablo and Overwatch, too, yet they're free (after you buy the box). You have to understand their overall corporate business model, not look at each game individually.

I suspect included with live is more likely... but there may be a world where it increases rate of re-sub as a free game. Neither we nor Blizzard has the numbers to make that call yet.

[Celista]

Keep in mind they won't be grading Classic's performance only on Classic, but on synergies with live/Hearthstone.

I think it'll be one of two things:
1) Free with live subscription, or $5-10/month without live sub.
or
2) Totally free (if you ever bought a WoW product?), with its objective being similar to Diablo, to hold people within the Blizzard app during live content droughts

My guess would be that they'll initially open it just free with live sub, and make decisions based on what they see behaviorally. (not board posts, actual real world behaviors).

I really think their best chance at getting players away from pirated servers are to use a f2p model. Despite all of the claims in this subforum about how they "paid for Blizzard products/had a sub for years", those players are the minority. Most people on private servers have never stepped foot into retail. They play the pirated version because it's free, and will continue to play the pirated version because it's free, unless a competitive model is offered to them. Some of them are cheap, and some of them play in poorer countries (obviously not dirt poor if they have computer/internet access) and can't afford to purchase the game. Or are young and don't have a credit card.

A good cash shop will keep the game afloat, but it has to be balanced properly and not be too greedy. Rift had a good cash shop model, that was mostly based on cosmetic items.

Starcraft is now f2p so I don't think Blizzard is against a f2p model per se. I just don't see the subscription model working for Classic, even when bundled with BfA--basically, WoW is the only MMO that has been able to sustain a subscription model for so long.

[Deleted]

Blizzard decides who the classic servers are for. Not you.

We allready know the purists are in the minority when it comes to classic servers.

We also know that the people who have been asking for private servers are not(not even remotely) all purists.


So here is some food for thought for you. Not everyone wants what you want, and just because you want it doesnt mean everyone else have to conform to your opinion.

Stop being a grade A self entitled dickhead

id love to see your source on the "purists" being minority. Last time i checkd none from the retail crowd even wanted classic.

[Deleted]

All of that is true for Diablo and Overwatch, too, yet they're free (after you buy the box). You have to understand their overall corporate business model, not look at each game individually.

I suspect included with live is more likely... but there may be a world where it increases rate of re-sub as a free game. Neither we nor Blizzard has the numbers to make that call yet.

The Diablo servers dont require an ounce of the maintenence that the WoW servers does. And they are releasing new content to buy somtimes to cover the expenses of that. Overwatch makes a FUCKTON of money from in game purchases which is fine, its just a different payment model.

Blizzard is not going to release the vanilla servers that require a ton of staff completely free of charge with no income from them

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id love to see your source on the "purists" being minority. Last time i checkd none from the retail crowd even wanted classic.

I cant be assed to find the thread anymore, i've done it a few times already.

Blizzard posted a survey asking a few questions about the Vanilla servers.

The survey was taken down within a few days(afaik) but was posted again on reddit and its still there somewhere.

Purists where an overwhelming minority

[Celista]

The Diablo servers dont require an ounce of the maintenence that the WoW servers does. And they are releasing new content to buy somtimes to cover the expenses of that. Overwatch makes a FUCKTON of money from in game purchases which is fine, its just a different payment model.

Blizzard is not going to release the vanilla servers that require a ton of staff completely free of charge with no income from them

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I cant be assed to find the thread anymore, i've done it a few times already.

Blizzard posted a survey asking a few questions about the Vanilla servers.

The survey was taken down within a few days(afaik) but was posted again on reddit and its still there somewhere.

Purists where an overwhelming minority

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F.../viewanalytics

It's here.

Also, bolded: private servers have been running for awhile off of a small team of people managing each server. I think classic servers can be managed on a small budget, what sort of "upgrades" you get content-wise (aka new raids) is probably dependent on the financial success of the server.

Most of the work for classic has been done already, really.

[Kolbjorn]

The Diablo servers dont require an ounce of the maintenence that the WoW servers does. And they are releasing new content to buy somtimes to cover the expenses of that. Overwatch makes a FUCKTON of money from in game purchases which is fine, its just a different payment model.

Blizzard is not going to release the vanilla servers that require a ton of staff completely free of charge with no income from them

You're seriously underestimating the importance of synergies between games. Go read a few of their analyst calls to understand that part of their plan.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's the leading option, but there isn't enough info to rule it out.

Thinking it through a bit more... I suspect the rollout will look something like:

1) Free with live sub (around patch 8.1).
2) 2-3 months after 8.1's raid is released, they might do a "6 month free Classic-only trial for lapsed accounts
3) 8.2+raid releases around month 5 of the free Classic trial

At the end of those 6 months, they'll be able to capture a couple of pieces of data:
a) Comparison of 8.1 raid churn vs. 8.0 raid churn
b) Comparison of 8.1 re-sub rate and 8.2 re-sub rate
c) Number of people that "came back" for free
d) Number of people that re-sub for Classic when the trial ends

What a) and b) give them is whether Classic has any value for mitigating churn from live.
What c) and d) give them is a ceiling on Classic's value as a separate product

If b) is large and c/d) are small, there's a chance Classic will be completely free.
If d) is large, there's a chance they'll create a $5-10 sub for Classic only.

I know you're going with 1% chance here... I'm probably more like 20-30% chance. Rolled into live seems much more likely.

[Deleted]

The Diablo servers dont require an ounce of the maintenence that the WoW servers does. And they are releasing new content to buy somtimes to cover the expenses of that. Overwatch makes a FUCKTON of money from in game purchases which is fine, its just a different payment model.

Blizzard is not going to release the vanilla servers that require a ton of staff completely free of charge with no income from them

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I cant be assed to find the thread anymore, i've done it a few times already.

Blizzard posted a survey asking a few questions about the Vanilla servers.

The survey was taken down within a few days(afaik) but was posted again on reddit and its still there somewhere.

Purists where an overwhelming minority

Did the survey ask " Are you a purist" or what did it ask? Cant find this

[Celista]

Did the survey ask " Are you a purist" or what did it ask? Cant find this

I literally linked it on this exact page.

[Deleted]

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F.../viewanalytics

It's here.

Also, bolded: private servers have been running for awhile off of a small team of people managing each server. I think classic servers can be managed on a small budget, what sort of "upgrades" you get content-wise (aka new raids) is probably dependent on the financial success of the server.

Most of the work for classic has been done already, really.

There are a few major differences there.

1. Blizzard is a company that first and foremost needs to make money. They are obligated to their shareholders and releasing something completely free of charge with no income is going to piss them off.
2. Blizzard is not going to release a buggy mess of dc'ing offline for 20% of the time, rollbacky servers for vanilla. They are going to be Legion quality servers with support staff ready to help people.

Private servers have been running since TBC but they arent the same thing as Blizzard running vanilla servers. Which is why people are looking forward to it instead of just "meh, why not just play on a private server for free"

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You're seriously underestimating the importance of synergies between games. Go read a few of their analyst calls to understand that part of their plan.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's the leading option, but there isn't enough info to rule it out.

Thinking it through a bit more... I suspect the rollout will look something like:

1) Free with live sub (around patch 8.1).
2) 2-3 months after 8.1's raid is released, they might do a "6 month free Classic-only trial for lapsed accounts
3) 8.2+raid releases around month 5 of the free Classic trial

At the end of those 6 months, they'll be able to capture a couple of pieces of data:
a) Comparison of 8.1 raid churn vs. 8.0 raid churn
b) Comparison of 8.1 re-sub rate and 8.2 re-sub rate
c) Number of people that "came back" for free
d) Number of people that re-sub for Classic when the trial ends

What a) and b) give them is whether Classic has any value for mitigating churn from live.
What c) and d) give them is a ceiling on Classic's value as a separate product

If b) is large and c/d) are small, there's a chance Classic will be completely free.
If d) is large, there's a chance they'll create a $5-10 sub for Classic only.

I know you're going with 1% chance here... I'm probably more like 20-30% chance. Rolled into live seems much more likely.

Honestly i'm nopt getting your point.

[Celista]

There are a few major differences there.

1. Blizzard is a company that first and foremost needs to make money. They are obligated to their shareholders and releasing something completely free of charge with no income is going to piss them off.
2. Blizzard is not going to release a buggy mess of dc'ing offline for 20% of the time, rollbacky servers for vanilla. They are going to be Legion quality servers with support staff ready to help people.

Private servers have been running since TBC but they arent the same thing as Blizzard running vanilla servers. Which is why people are looking forward to it instead of just "meh, why not just play on a private server for free"

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Honestly i'm nopt getting your point.

I don't think people understand f2p models. You can make a ton of money via microtransactions, Blizzard has had several quarters where WoW revenue was up while subscriptions were down due to the Blizzard store selling in-game items and services.

[Kolbjorn]

1. Blizzard is a company that first and foremost needs to make money. They are obligated to their shareholders and releasing something completely free of charge with no income is going to piss them off.

The major shareholders ask questions on the earnings calls. They understand why some games are "free." I'd recommend you read those calls. You can find them by Googling "activision earnings call". To find older ones, add "2Q2015" or whatever quarter you're looking for. Some are available on Activision's investor website. Further back should be available on seekingalpha.

(My predictions in a previous post, not re-writing here. I don't expect it to be free at release.)

[Zaeyla]

I really think their best chance at getting players away from pirated servers are to use a f2p model. Despite all of the claims in this subforum about how they "paid for Blizzard products/had a sub for years", those players are the minority. Most people on private servers have never stepped foot into retail. They play the pirated version because it's free, and will continue to play the pirated version because it's free, unless a competitive model is offered to them. Some of them are cheap, and some of them play in poorer countries (obviously not dirt poor if they have computer/internet access) and can't afford to purchase the game. Or are young and don't have a credit card.

A good cash shop will keep the game afloat, but it has to be balanced properly and not be too greedy. Rift had a good cash shop model, that was mostly based on cosmetic items.

Starcraft is now f2p so I don't think Blizzard is against a f2p model per se. I just don't see the subscription model working for Classic, even when bundled with BfA--basically, WoW is the only MMO that has been able to sustain a subscription model for so long.

I completely disagree, on all of the private servers I've talked to players over the years they're we're maybe one or two that ever said they did so because it was free or they didn't want to pay anything.
The Nostalrius survey they did among their playerbase after it was shutdown proved this with only 2% of players claiming that was their reason for playing.

I chose to play on Nostalrius and other private servers because I would rather play a game I enjoy that happens to be free rather then pay for a game that I don't enjoy and dislike, it would be asinine to do so.
I just want to be able to play the game I enjoy and love once again hopefully legitimately if I have to pay to do so who cares, 15$ a month is nothing at the end of the day that is equivalent to roughly 1.7 meals out at any fast food restaurant in my area.

[Kolbjorn]

Honestly i'm nopt getting your point.

Can you be more specific as to what you don't understand? I don't really want to write a full class on market strategy here

[Celista]

I completely disagree, on all of the private servers I've talked to players over the years they're we're maybe one or two that ever said they did so because it was free or they didn't want to pay anything.

People are totally full of shit about their vanilla experience and that extends beyond the forums. Your experience is 100% different from mine so we'll see what happens, I guess...

[Zaeyla]

People are totally full of shit about their vanilla experience and that extends beyond the forums. Your experience is 100% different from mine so we'll see what happens, I guess...

Its far too premature to claim that most won't pay for classic servers, we're easily a year+ out from them actually releasing, have zero details/information and know really nothing about them the best evidence we have is from the players themselves and from the different surveys/petitions where it has statistically said that is not the case.

There is zero evidence that says most won't pay and more evidence that does is my point.

[Celista]

Its far too premature to claim that most won't pay for classic servers, we're easily a year+ out from them actually releasing, have zero details/information and know really nothing about them the best evidence we have is from the players themselves and from the different surveys/petitions where it has statistically said that is not the case.

We have evidence from literally every other MMO put on the market since WoW release that subscription models aren't sustainable. It's not exclusively about the type of player that would be drawn to classic servers, it's about the current market.