Dear retail players, don't mess this up for us. As damages done will be irreversible.

[Scottyjscizzle]

As a subscriber, I don't give a flying fuck about your classic servers. Look inward for your problems instead of trying to pass it off on us. You know what people who enjoy wow are doing? playing the expansions instead of living on 14 year old memories.

[Zaeyla]

We have evidence from literally every other MMO put on the market since WoW release that subscription models aren't sustainable. It's not exclusively about the type of player that would be drawn to classic servers, it's about the current market.

We also have evidence that World of Warcraft flourished and continued to grow under a subscription model even on broken/unbroken/bugged vanilla as many people claim, we'll just have to wait and see is the best answer.

A cash shop will put off almost all players who are actually interested in Classic, a one time box purchase and/or subscription model is the best I think if you search other classic discussions/forums/reddits you'll see that seems to be the consensus among most classic fans at least from what I've seen.

[Kolbjorn]

We have evidence from literally every other MMO put on the market since WoW release that subscription models aren't sustainable. It's not exclusively about the type of player that would be drawn to classic servers, it's about the current market.

Oh I don't know about that. SWTOR nerfed their f2p in their most recent expansion. No access to end-game content if you're not subbed. EQ is the closest example of a legacy MMO with a pile of expansions and progression servers. They're a sub model (progression servers are included in sub).

But you're still looking at it as a standalone product, which it almost assuredly is not being seen as by the exec team.

[Celista]

We also have evidence that World of Warcraft flourished and continued to grow under a subscription model even on broken/unbroken/bugged vanilla as many people claim, we'll just have to wait and see is the best answer.

A cash shop will put off almost all players who are actually interested in Classic, a one time box purchase and/or subscription model is the best I think if you search other classic discussions/forums/reddits you'll see that seems to be the consensus among most classic fans at least from what I've seen.

Yeah if they try a subscription model it will go f2p within 1 year. I'm absolutely certain. I personally do not have any emotional investment in what financial model they use, but it is not reasonable to assume that just because something worked a decade ago means that it will a decade later, even with a re-release of the same game.

B2P is a good alternative option, but I see nothing wrong with a cash shop and I honestly think it will benefit players in the long run. A lot depends on what they put in the shop and how it is balanced with in-game content and the expectations of the playerbase. If you notice with current WoW, Blizzard tried putting cosmetic armors in the cash shop but they caused such a big stink that they never tried putting cosmetic items in the game again, but mount and pet sales still flourish.

Not exactly sure what would work for classic server players but I don't think the idea is so abhorrent that it will "put off almost all players actually interested in classic". Most private servers have some sort of cash shop, as well.

[Daggot Ur]

Except they havent stated that at all. Which is why they are actively asking their fanbase to vocie their opinions about what they want from a vanilla server, and which is why people like you are shaking in your purists pants and completely tilting at every single mention of enhanced vanilla servers

Albeit they have stated that - “Vanilla is Vanilla” this doesn’t mean Vanilla is TBC/WOTLK/younameit. We should ONLY discuss what happened during Vanilla. So stop asking for irrelevant non-Vanilla stuff will ya

[Celista]

Oh I don't know about that. SWTOR nerfed their f2p in their most recent expansion. No access to end-game content if you're not subbed. EQ is the closest example of a legacy MMO with a pile of expansions and progression servers. They're a sub model (progression servers are included in sub).

But you're still looking at it as a standalone product, which it almost assuredly is not being seen as by the exec team.

SWTOR never really did f2p correctly, it was really restrictive and it turned people off. The only subscription based MMOs that I'm aware of are EQ and I think EVE online, although they have a "free/no monthly subscription required" base game.

[Zaeyla]

Yeah if they try a subscription model it will go f2p within 1 year. I'm absolutely certain. I personally do not have any emotional investment in what financial model they use, but it is not reasonable to assume that just because something worked a decade ago means that it will a decade later, even with a re-release of the same game.

B2P is a good alternative option, but I see nothing wrong with a cash shop and I honestly think it will benefit players in the long run. A lot depends on what they put in the shop and how it is balanced with in-game content and the expectations of the playerbase. If you notice with current WoW, Blizzard tried putting cosmetic armors in the cash shop but they caused such a big stink that they never tried putting cosmetic items in the game again, but mount and pet sales still flourish.

Not exactly sure what would work for classic server players but I don't think the idea is so abhorrent that it will "put off almost all players actually interested in classic". Most private servers have some sort of cash shop, as well.

You are right about allot of private servers do but the most popular ones and the ones that boom (Also the ones most likely to get shutdown btw) usually are completely free of profit/revenue incentives or rely solely on optional donations.

It does greatly depend on how far the cash shop would go, I think non-combat pets with maybe character recustomizations(No race changes or faction changes) would be ok but mounts would be no go seeing how difficult it was just obtaining a mount in vanilla and even rarer/more difficult to get something other then you're default races mount.
I also think a link or button ingame that links to the cash shop would be very detrimental and off-putting to most classic players/fans it would need to stay entirely on the wow website if they did ever choose to go down that path.

[Celista]

You are right about allot of private servers do but the most popular ones and the ones that boom (Also the ones most likely to get shutdown btw) usually are completely free of profit/revenue incentives or rely solely on optional donations.

It does greatly depend on how far the cash shop would go, I think non-combat pets with maybe character recustomizations(No race changes or faction changes) would be ok but mounts would be no go seeing how difficult it was just obtaining a mount in vanilla and even rarer/more difficult to get something other then you're default races mount.
I also think a link or button ingame that links to the cash shop would be very detrimental and off-putting to most classic players/fans it would need to stay entirely on the wow website if they did ever choose to go down that path.

Yeah, I don't think mounts would work very well. Perhaps a Hearthstone f2p/b2p model where you can buy access to new raid content after Naxx release.

I actually think cosmetic armors weren't a bad idea in current WoW, the problem was that the cosmetic helms were higher quality and very different from anything seen in game up to that point. Along with the usual complaints about not being able to earn the items in-game (which actually cropped up among the playerbase initially about mount sales, when Blizzard started selling mounts during Wrath).

[Drusin]

Blizzard tried putting cosmetic armors in the cash shop but they caused such a big stink that they never tried putting cosmetic items in the game again, but mount and pet sales still flourish.

psst Blizz, try again, and add some achievements for xmog and a way to pull appearances collected from the armory (if that's not already possible) and the playerbase will naturally make a WarcraftPets.com/WarcraftMounts.com/WowProgress Pet Score type of deal for xmog. I don't know about everyone else but for me idgaf about pets/mounts/toys/achievements on their own, I care about my rankings MogCollector.com already has a way to import collections, just need to make it competitive and GG

edit: toys too if you can :3

[Celista]

psst Blizz, try again, and add some achievements for xmog and a way to pull appearances collected from the armory (if that's not already possible) and the playerbase will naturally make a WarcraftPets.com/WarcraftMounts.com/WowProgress Pet Score type of deal for xmog. I don't know about everyone else but for me idgaf about pets/mounts/toys/achievements on their own, I care about my rankings MogCollector.com already has a way to import collections, just need to make it competitive and GG

edit: toys too if you can :3

This is why Blizzard needs to do more surveys and other types of market research before classic release. I *personally* would enjoy a classic WoW experience with cosmetic armors/transmog and updated graphics, and honestly would have no problem with toys for purchase, but I don't represent the entire playerbase.

Hopefully Blizzard conducts more and people report what they want. Forum threads are a poop way of gauging broad opinion/interest.

[Cronovey]

Calm down... triggering isn't necessary. You don't get to choose what other groups refer to you as. It isn't negative at all, unless of course you feel playing retail is a negative thing. I used to play retail... and therefore was a "retailer"... but lost interest. I do not take offense to the term. Bikers ride bikes. Hikers like to hike. PvPers engage in PvP. Farmers spend time farming.

Retailers play the retail version of WoW. Nothing more or less. If it hurts your feelings.. well that's on you.

Retailers sell products. The difference you don't seem to understand is you're trying to take a word and make it mean something it doesn't. A biker rides a bike, yes, because that's the definition of the word biker. The word retailer already has a definition and that definition doesn't even remotely apply to the group of people you're trying to apply it to. And no, you don't get to choose what people refer to you as. That doesn't mean that labels don't come with negative connotations; to ignore the fact that they do is just stupid.

All I did was give you an alternative word that actually makes sense by definition that also happens to match the term being given to most of the "no changes" crowd. If your own willful ignorance prevents you from expanding your vocabulary to use proper terminology...well, that's on you.

[Projectmars]

A cash shop would do far more damage to the game than it is worth, period. Classic is being built to cater to those that want to play the game as it was back then and adding in microtransactions to that would be anathema to what should be the core base of Classic players, denying it the solid base that it would need to keep a decent population. Tacking Classic WoW into the current sub is likely going to be the way they'll do it and the most elegant of solutions to how to fund the upkeep of Classic servers.

[Super Kami Dende]

SWTOR never really did f2p correctly, it was really restrictive and it turned people off.

Swtor gives entire access to the Main Class stories in game for Free. That is extremely ok by me. Since people that don't pay for a game, still have access to hours of free shit and complain they have restrictions can mostly go fuck themselves. Also considering Swtor doesn't require you to buy Expacs as you get them all as part of a sub.

[Projectmars]

Swtor gives entire access to the Main Class stories in game for Free. That is extremely ok by me. Since people that don't pay for a game, still have access to hours of free shit and complain they have restrictions can mostly go fuck themselves. Also considering Swtor doesn't require you to buy Expacs as you get them all as part of a sub.

You still had to either sub or pay extra to get unlimited Battleground/Dungeon/Raid access... which is in fact really restrictive.

[Super Kami Dende]

You still had to either sub or pay extra to get unlimited Battleground/Dungeon/Raid access... which is in fact really restrictive.

I don't see it as restrictive at all, since you still have 100's of hours of gameplay being able to play 1-50 on 8 different classes. If people want to be cheap bitches and complain you don't have access to everything, that is entirely on them.

You could also buy access to those things with Money you earn in game and some you got as complimentary gifts just for playing the game.

[Deleted]

It's your guys fault we ended up with the shit pile that is B4A. Why shouldn't we?

[Projectmars]

I don't see it as restrictive at all, since you still have 100's of hours of gameplay being able to play 1-50 on 8 different classes. If people want to be cheap bitches and complain you don't have access to everything, that is entirely on them.

All the stuff that is restricted are group activities, so it's hundreds of hours of doing stuff that you can do without really interacting with other players in an MMO. Which is the kind of thing you should be interacting with other people in. Either it's pretty restrictive or pretty backwards style of thinking.

But hey, at least you don't have to pay extra to use certain item slots on your character sheet. (*coughcough*Rift*/coughcough*)

[Super Kami Dende]

All the stuff that is restricted are group activities, so it's hundreds of hours of doing stuff that you can do without really interacting with other players in an MMO. Which is the kind of thing you should be interacting with other people in. Either it's pretty restrictive or pretty backwards style of thinking.

But hey, at least you don't have to pay extra to use certain item slots on your character sheet. (*coughcough*Rift*/coughcough*)

Even in the most curent expacs, 99% of the game is Solo played. People going into Swtor expecting an MMO are in for a rude surprise.

[Celista]

Swtor gives entire access to the Main Class stories in game for Free. That is extremely ok by me. Since people that don't pay for a game, still have access to hours of free shit and complain they have restrictions can mostly go fuck themselves. Also considering Swtor doesn't require you to buy Expacs as you get them all as part of a sub.

I had SWTOR before it went f2p, then took a break and came back slightly after...I remember the battleground access being EXTREMELY restrictive, but what pissed me off was the lack of action bar space. Like, all of my action bars removed except one (I think), whatever I was given simply wasn't enough to play the game correctly. That really annoyed me, especially as I had purchased the game at full retail price. The least they could have done is given me enough action bar space for my rotation.

I didn't have a problem with the game other than that.

[Deleted]

I don't think people understand f2p models. You can make a ton of money via microtransactions, Blizzard has had several quarters where WoW revenue was up while subscriptions were down due to the Blizzard store selling in-game items and services.

What he said wasnt a f2p model simply a free - free model.

Also vanilla might make some cash from an ingame shop especiially at release. But even if they make it an evolving server instead of a static patch everyone knows whats coming. We arent going to get new shop mounts or pets.

I dont see micro transactions being a thing in vanilla unless they want to wreck the economy and directly sell gold, which i doubt.

- - - Updated - - -

The major shareholders ask questions on the earnings calls. They understand why some games are "free." I'd recommend you read those calls. You can find them by Googling "activision earnings call". To find older ones, add "2Q2015" or whatever quarter you're looking for. Some are available on Activision's investor website. Further back should be available on seekingalpha.

(My predictions in a previous post, not re-writing here. I don't expect it to be free at release.)

This post has absolutely nothing to do with me. When the shareholders ask questions isnt in any way important for this discussion. The only thing that matters is if vanilla servers will be bringing in some cash or not.

- - - Updated - - -

Can you be more specific as to what you don't understand? I don't really want to write a full class on market strategy here

Your point. What was the point of your post. I didnt ask you what release schedule you think the game is going to have. I've never talked about how the games influence eachother. I've never said they dont.

What i'm saying is that they arent going to release vanilla servers with a lot of support staff without having a way of making money off it.

So what was your point with that post exactly.