Celestalon is gone and moved on

[Risale]

GC never argued for the majority of a beta with the entire community of a spec constantly telling them they were wrong when they provided numbers and facts otherwise lol

guy was an idiot.

I even think he went head to head with the Justmonk from Method and several others Monk tank mains from the top 10, I mean come on if that lot says it's wrong then you better shit the hell up and take notice cause there might be a chance that there is something wrong and there was in this case.
Look IRL everyone that knows him and has met him says he is a real nice guy but in the case of monks (and other classes) he screwed the pooch more times then anyone in his position should and for that reason alone he needs to leave.

With regards to GC he might have come accross as a total asshat 1st class with cluster but at least he was open to talk about it and this despite the rest of the mess he created is valued to this day (even if half the raider community wanted to punch his lights out every other week or so).

Now all we can wait till the next idiot screwes up and we can start the new cycle.

[Mirishka]

GC never argued for the majority of a beta with the entire community of a spec constantly telling them they were wrong when they provided numbers and facts otherwise lol

guy was an idiot.

Um... wrong.

GC went back and forth with players constantly, albeit in more 'respectfully debate than argue' mode, often defending controversial changes and even controversial things that he, himself, said.

Need an example? In BC/Wrath he was an obstacle for the warrior community, because back then we had a lot of issues and a lot of things other tanks flat out did better... but because (back then) more people played warrior tanks than any other, GC replied to us with:

"There are more warrior tanks than any other class. Why should we buff the most popular tank?"

Literally, verbatim, he said that.

When people complained about the initially-brutal difficulty of Cataclysm heroics, GC posted a blog that basically could be distilled down to 'get better at the game'. Mind you I actually agreed with most of what he said in that blog, but it still offended a LOT of people.

There are many, many, many other instances of his pissing people off. It happened so much that Blizzard actually told him to stop talking with players so much, per his own words.

But hey don't let me get in the way of ya'll tearing into the new Ghostcrawler, AKA Celestalon. You know, the only guy that worked on classes in Legion.

[Onikaroshi]

I think you have a bit of rose-colored glasses on there. GC was pretty unmovable when it came to design choices, but if you made a cogent argument backed-up with math he would listen. And while I didn't agree with many of his design choices, I personally disagree with the current crop of devs much, much more.

Watcher was the one who said "we don't want you to play demo" and then deliberately nerfed the spec until it wasn't competitive. IMO, that is truly unforgivable.

They did the same to survival, just without all the words. I can see WHY they did it but it was in poor taste the way the handled it. I don't expect anything different out of anyone new, just hate people defending celestalon like his shit don't stink when he was one of the most combative devs we've had, he flat out wouldn't listen even if you had facts to back it up.

[Schizoide]

With regards to GC he might have come accross as a total asshat 1st class with cluster but at least he was open to talk about it and this despite the rest of the mess he created is valued to this day (even if half the raider community wanted to punch his lights out every other week or so).

Absolutely right. GC was a great lead because he was willing to communicate. Didn't always (or even often) agree, but he would engage with the community.

@Onikaroshi: C'mon now, they didn't deliberately break Survival. The spec is a mess and I hate it myself, but there's a difference between failing in execution and failing in intent. That's what I find truly unforgivable.

[Arbs]

Oh don't worry people will find another target soon.

[Onikaroshi]

Absolutely right. GC was a great lead because he was willing to communicate. Didn't always (or even often) agree, but he would engage with the community.

@Onikaroshi: C'mon now, they didn't deliberately break Survival. The spec is a mess and I hate it myself, but there's a difference between failing in execution and failing in intent. That's what I find truly unforgivable.

Oh, what i meant was they basically made it useless in HFC just like they did with Demo so people would stop playing it so they could fuck with it come legion is all.

[Schattenlied]

I understand there are deadlines and complications, but the lead designer on a project is the man who is supposed to filter out the shit. He didn't do that very well, and their treatment of Frost DKs this expansion has made me even more upset.

The biggest complication was that they put WAY too much shit on their plate, trying to redesign every spec in one expansion's alpha/beta period. That absolutely should not have happened, even trying to do half of them is way too much... Redesigns require lots of attention and lots of iteration based on feedback, that's simply not something that is possible in that time frame for that many different specs.

[Arbs]

^ This.

Sadly the "my gaem is ruined REEEEEEEE!!!"-crowd seem to lack the ability to see reason.

Indeed, most people are actually clueless what goes on behind the scenes.

[styil]

Too little, too late.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Can't wait until be gets hired somewhere else and we get to read his looking back posts on Twitter. Then the people that hate the current guy can write how much they love him while another bunch complains about him having a voice.

[Better]

Cant wait till you guys miss him.

I actually quite liked Ghostcrawler, not that I think he was the only one responsible for any of the balance changes at the time, I just enjoyed his snark. I can't think of anything quite as memorable for Celestalon.

I don't dislike Celestalon, nor do I think his absence will change anything really, but I'm not sure what players that dislike him now will remember fondly of him.

[Mirishka]

Oh don't worry people will find another target soon.

Indeed. It'll probably be Lore, or some dude that answers the phones.

[Onikaroshi]

Indeed. It'll probably be Lore, or some dude that answers the phones.

but what if.... lore answers the phones O.o

[Mirishka]

I actually quite liked Ghostcrawler, not that I think he was the only one responsible for any of the balance changes at the time, I just enjoyed his snark. I can't think of anything quite as memorable for Celestalon.

I don't dislike Celestalon, nor do I think his absence will change anything really, but I'm not sure what players that dislike him now will remember fondly of him.

You can't remember anything as memorable for Celestalon because GC's 'snark' and tendency to piss players off resulted in Blizzard communicating less with players. And that's per the man himself, not speculation.

So those of you whining about Celestalon talking to us less than GC did? Its pretty much because of the GC 'era' of WoW that he didn't.

- - - Updated - - -

but what if.... lore answers the phones O.o

Double the hate for him then.

[styil]

Can't wait until be gets hired somewhere else and we get to read his looking back posts on Twitter. Then the people that hate the current guy can write how much they love him while another bunch complains about him having a voice.

What is there to look back on? Him blaming streamers on Legion's class screw-ups? Or him (incorrectly) telling Monks how to play their class? All the while playing on his tablet. Well I guess Hearthstone will be a better fit for his playstyle.

[Arbs]

You can't remember anything as memorable for Celestalon because GC's 'snark' and tendency to piss players off resulted in Blizzard communicating less with players. And that's per the man himself, not speculation.

So those of you whining about Celestalon talking to us less than GC did? Its pretty much because of the GC 'era' of WoW that he didn't.

- - - Updated - - -



Double the hate for him then.

Poor Lore

[ComputerNerd]

Already a thread on this and lol if you think one guy who did balancing going to a different team is suddenly going to make all of your dreams come true

The game was going to be miraculously "fixed" after the departure of GhostCrawler, etc, etc, etc.
I agree there is no one person, despite the insistence of players that is solely responsible for their gripes.

Or maybe after a 3rd person starts the position, people will realize it really wasnt ghostcrawler or celestalon working alone.

What they realise, and what they will actually acknowledge are not the same thing.
I think it is obvious now that this is the case, but they have their scapegoat and most run with it no matter the consequences.

Absolutely right. GC was a great lead because he was willing to communicate. Didn't always (or even often) agree, but he would engage with the community.

@Onikaroshi: C'mon now, they didn't deliberately break Survival. The spec is a mess and I hate it myself, but there's a difference between failing in execution and failing in intent. That's what I find truly unforgivable.

And those as you say, those are not the same.
Blizzard have an idea with survival, and it not being what ranting random player wants does not mean the intent has failed, and to be honest there isn't any design blizzard could apply to a spec without someone complaining that isn't what they wanted.

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”
- John Lydgate

No single player can even be satisfied perfectly with everything, let alone the quantity playing.

[Bigbazz]

I didnt see this posted any place else but

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...62072885452800

All I can say is thank fucking God and now maybe they will undo the terrible things he did to the classes .
Let the Healing begin

What him and the rest of the team? Game isn't made by a handful of people, he was the leader so mostl just signed off on stuff that the team did.

[TriHard]

What is this idiotic thing about making threads when there's already a bigger one up on the same topic?
Use your fucking eyes, will you.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post48300079

[Dystemper]

What him and the rest of the team? Game isn't made by a handful of people, he was the leader so mostl just signed off on stuff that the team did.

Get rid of the entire class balancing team