Celestalon is gone and moved on

[dreamdaddy]

I wonder if the BFA return to class buffs is a direct result of Celestalon's departure. He really seemed to focus on "bring the player, not the class" and simplification of playstyles, which could be seen as either good or bad. Personally I'd love to see some talent options be given to every spec where they can talent into some kind of utility that benefits their group over themselves. Support roles should be central to MMORPGs.

[Azzurri]

How about MoP Ele and Destro Lock back?

[thesmall001]

Sure he talked to the community, so did GC, but GC didn't have such a.... poor attitude when it came to the interactions, Celestalon was "my way or the highway"

I love GC and Celestalon (and Watcher, while we're at it) but Ghostcrawler literally made a blog post telling the community to "just get good" when it came to Cataclysm Dungeons despite record disengagement. It's a hard job and sometimes you have to tell people what they don't want to hear because, at the end of the day, you have a collective vision for the game and you want to enforce that.

Celestalon (and Holinka and Watcher) took up the mantles of community punching bag after Ghostcrawler left. Frankly, anybody who does that earns my respect as a developer, but -as one of the communities most vocal Brewmasters- I'll always appreciate 2 things that he did more than anything. He died on a hill for the unique and awesome design of Brewmasters in the face of a community who didn't (and still often don't) understand it. He made hundreds of posts engaging with PTR testers of the item squish and making sure every little bug with that was ironed out so that the transition was almost seamless.

People in this echo-chamber-hell-hole have no idea how almost anything in games actually works. They are reactionary, reductionist people with barely a glimpse into what actually makes a good developer. They want somebody to just give them everything, tell them they're right and bend to their hive-mind demands. Anybody tough enough to even speak to us is doing us a favour.

[Onikaroshi]

I love GC and Celestalon (and Watcher, while we're at it) but Ghostcrawler literally made a blog post telling the community to "just get good" when it came to Cataclysm Dungeons despite record disengagement. It's a hard job and sometimes you have to tell people what they don't want to hear because, at the end of the day, you have a collective vision for the game and you want to enforce that.

Celestalon (and Holinka and Watcher) took up the mantles of community punching bag after Ghostcrawler left. Frankly, anybody who does that earns my respect as a developer, but -as one of the communities most vocal Brewmasters- I'll always appreciate 2 things that he did more than anything. He died on a hill for the unique and awesome design of Brewmasters in the face of a community who didn't (and still often don't) understand it. He made hundreds of posts engaging with PTR testers of the item squish and making sure every little bug with that was ironed out so that the transition was almost seamless.

People in this echo-chamber-hell-hole have no idea how almost anything in games actually works. They are reactionary, reductionist people with barely a glimpse into what actually makes a good developer. They want somebody to just give them everything, tell them they're right and bend to their hive-mind demands. Anybody tough enough to even speak to us is doing us a favour.

Huge difference between telling people to "get gud" at the cata dungeons (which was entirely true, they weren't even hard), and arguing with every top monk in the community about a design that was just backwards. Tanks staying low and telling healers not to heal them is just bad design.

[Bullettime]

I'll admit that I really disliked Celestalon but loved Ghostcrawler. As someone who was super active with class discussion, balance, theorycraft, etc during both of their times as "the face," Ghostcrawler would disagree with you but still host a discussion and explain why he truly believed what he believed and you could generally at least see his side of the argument even if you disagreed.

Celestalon on the other hand was often a pompous ass who would outright tell big "class leaders" they were wrong because reasons or would make outright retarded statements based on anecdotes. Does anyone remember his Marksmanship Hunter stream? The Brewmaster fiasco? Those were big examples but there were "smaller" similar issues like that constantly between him and long time and established class players.

Ghostcrawler would disagree for X, Y, and Z and give you a damn paragraph. Celestalon would tell you you're wrong because of his anecdotal experience and often wasn't even playing the right way himself to understand where people were coming from.

[Deleted]

Yeah? Well I have. And I think he's pretty great.

Those of you playing the 'yay now WoW will be great again' card are clueless. Utterly, laughably clueless. There is a TEAM of people working on this stuff. Say it with me: T E A M.

Now, for those of you unclear as to what constitutes a team, I'll explain: it is when a group of individuals works toward a goal or purpose. Meaning there's no singular person imposing his or her will on any facet of WoW. Just as GC leaving for Riot didn't magically 'fix' WoW, Celestalon's moving on won't either.

But hey, keep telling yourselves whatever helps you sleep at night.

- - - Updated - - -



Just like GC deserved it, just like Holinka deserved it, blah blah blah. People need to grow up and find a better outlet for their emotions than 'OMG I HATE U VIDEO GAME DEV PERSUN.'

You aware that the mentioned "T E A M" has a leader that sets the tone for the rest, right? If the leader of that said team is competent, good at working with other people, and knows the right way to lead them, he might actually achieve good results.

It's like saying that it doesn't matter who the manager of a football team is, because beside him there are other sub-coaches and assistant managers and whatnot...

[Nirathiel]

Atleast he found a game he can play on his tablet.

[Bullettime]

You aware that the mentioned "T E A M" has a leader that sets the tone for the rest, right? If the leader of that said team is competent, good at working with other people, and knows the right way to lead them, he might actually achieve good results.

It's like saying that it doesn't matter who the manager of a football team is, because beside him there are other sub-coaches and assistant managers and whatnot...

The face having a super combative nature didn't help. Celestalon's presence and attitude absolutely contributed to a sort of brain drain among the theorycraft communities and the long time class "names" as people stopped contributing or caring when their feedback was no longer felt as valid and Celestalon was a fucking prick to you regardless of how your feedback was structured.

[thesmall001]

Huge difference between telling people to "get gud" at the cata dungeons (which was entirely true, they weren't even hard), and arguing with every top monk in the community about a design that was just backwards. Tanks staying low and telling healers not to heal them is just bad design.

Again, as one of that tiny community's biggest advocates (along with Cali, BrewingScribe and Sunnier) at the time, that's a 100% not what happened. What he actually did was argue with a community of the bad Monks about a design that was engaging and unique with an excellent niche that probably stands as one of the best examples of what Tank design can be in WoW. And we all got that. The community just couldn't accept it because it deviated from the copy/paste design of every Tank except DKs. Regardless, Monks debuted as the best tank for M+ and (by 7.1) they were drawing even with Druids for best Tank and would remain strong throughout; despite having received very little iteration since Beta.

[Onikaroshi]

Again, as one of that tiny community's biggest advocates (along with Cali, BrewingScribe and Sunnier) at the time, that's a 100% not what happened. What he actually did was argue with a community of the bad Monks about a design that was engaging and unique with an excellent niche that probably stands as one of the best examples of what Tank design can be in WoW. And we all got that. The community just couldn't accept it because it deviated from the copy/paste design of every Tank except DKs. Regardless, Monks debuted as the best tank for M+ and (by 7.1) they were drawing even with Druids for best Tank and would remain strong throughout; despite having received very little iteration since Beta.

They completely 180d on the thought process? They made the proc rate even across health levels and added at TALENT that increased it at lower health. And just monk was one of the guys arguing against his idea, yea, methods monk tank, bad monk, ok then.

[Nurasu]

But hey don't let me get in the way of ya'll tearing into the new Ghostcrawler, AKA Celestalon. You know, the only guy that worked on classes in Legion.

I'm not under any illusions that he was the only one balancing classes, nor do I think class balance is even in a bad state right now, but I definitely will never miss him. He was snarky and condescending. He not only didn't value feedback or input, he legitimately despised it I think because of his ego.

[Schmeebs]

Not at all sure what that has to do with anything. Anything at all.

I've talked to him at blizzcon.. most of the last 5 years, hes a douchenozzle.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

What is there to look back on? Him blaming streamers on Legion's class screw-ups? Or him (incorrectly) telling Monks how to play their class? All the while playing on his tablet. Well I guess Hearthstone will be a better fit for his playstyle.

So we know what camp you fit into? I mean seriously you got a point here? Or am I just going to get asked mine as the classic look it is the internet response?

[elaina]

Had no idea this guy was so disliked. I didn't mind him but had no idea what specifically he was responsible for. I liked his commentary on the endless halls but that's barely even part of the game.

So is Lore next?

[Bilgekhan]

He ruined wow pvp now hearhstone will be doomed. sad but true.

[Socialhealer]

How about MoP Ele and Destro Lock back?

yup that'd be nice after taking a massive shit on it in WoD.

and in before the predictable losers come along with the memes like "lul you think 1 guy does all the balancing lululul idiot"

no but this one guy did say on a blue post "elemental shaman is overpowered and you just don't know it (nerfs lava burst 20%) WoD PTR.

game goes live lava burst buffed 33%, lava burst lightning bolt earth shock all buffed 10%, HFC elemental buffed 4%, and it was a useless class no-one used in HFC because it was underpowered as fuck!

so when 1 dev voices their opinions and they are so DISASTROUSLY WRONG, i have the right to good riddance and fuck off.

[Mafic]

Sweet baby jesus...best news of the year...easily!

[Socialhealer]

Atleast he found a game he can play on his tablet.

rofl got 'em!

[Daltin]

His Brewmaster beta commentary is an all-time classic, considering he was one of the worst Brewmasters to ever play the game at a top 100-150 guild level.

Was removed from his guild for being unable to kite Garrosh adds on Heroic. Top kek.

[Mafic]

BFA is going to be a big, and beautiful expansion. Yay!