Can Arcane compete with Frost/Fire in Raids?

[Sylvaeres]

No. how hard was that people?

Ya, you're wrong. If played well, it's not that far behind the other 2 specs, and can outperform frost in AOE (and at times fire) and fire in ST (can keep relatively close to frost). It's an all in one spec. So please, shhhh

[Nitros14]

Looking at Warcraft logs statistics for all mage specs at 90th percentile, this looks like a pretty bad tier for mages in general?

[Alvito]

Looking at Warcraft logs statistics for all mage specs at 90th percentile, this looks like a pretty bad tier for mages in general?

A bit early to take anything away from that really. If you are looking at mythic there is very little information and after 4 or so bosses in there people are still stacking classes to some degree. If you are looking at heroic and below that is a bit more fair but it has also only been a week and a half.

[D3athsting]

All three specs looks quite bad on hc and terrible in M

[Soulwell]

All three specs looks quite bad on hc and terrible in M

It's like you came here just to say something stupid. All 3 Mage specs are in a perfectly fine spot.

[D3athsting]

It's like you came here just to say something stupid. All 3 Mage specs are in a perfectly fine spot.

Oh yeah p16-17-22 on 75th perc. hc is totally fine
T20 stronger than T21 for fire is totally fine too

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#difficulty=4

[Soulwell]

Oh yeah p16-17-22 on 75th perc. hc is totally fine
T20 stronger than T21 for fire is totally fine too

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#difficulty=4

It's been 2 weeks. I'm 2/11 and I still don't have 4p not saying I'm everyone else but trying to base judgement off of 75% 2 weeks into a patch is borderline retarded. Ontop of most of these fights being split cleave far enough for ignite/SI/Magi not to hit both where as multidotting classes do. If mages where in such a bad spot people wouldn't be using them in end tier progression raiding.

Also this thread is about the Mage specs compared to other Mage specs not you trying to make sense of what little information you could grasp after realizing you're an idiot.

[Alvito]

Oh yeah p16-17-22 on 75th perc. hc is totally fine
T20 stronger than T21 for fire is totally fine too

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#difficulty=4

Doing an all boss overlay doesn't help your case any.

- - - Updated - - -

Very few fights are any of the specs in the top 5 and when one is the other 2 are a bottom 4 choice and they all alternate between that. So you are on the border for top 3rd or middle, if you aren't that you are one of the worst choices for that fight. Each spec has at least 4 fights they are just awful at. From a quick brush over numbers no other spec/class can say the same thing.

[D3athsting]

people wouldn't be using them in end tier progression raiding.

Mage is so strong that method are using only 1 on some fights and none in others

T21 is shit for frost and for fire and nobody plays arcane so expect mage to go down even more as other classes will get their op 4pc

- - - Updated - - -

Doing an all boss overlay doesn't help your case any.

- - - Updated - - -

Very few fights are any of the specs in the top 5 and when one is the other 2 are a bottom 4 choice and they all alternate between that. So you are on the border for top 3rd or middle, if you aren't that you are one of the worst choices for that fight. Each spec has at least 4 fights they are just awful at. From a quick brush over numbers no other spec/class can say the same thing.

So warlocks just have to change talents for top dps, mages have to change spec and grind ap for 3 fucking artifacts to be middle of the pack, that's totally fine

[Soulwell]

Mage is so strong that method are using only 1 on some fights and none in others

T21 is shit for frost and for fire and nobody plays arcane so expect mage to go down even more as other classes will get their op 4pc

Back at it again with the shit logic. Arcane has one of the strongest t21 tier sets. Now fire may be a little wishywashy at the start of a tier but it always comes back to top5 after people start cheesing. Frost is the same way.

Method has a Mage for every kill they have not like that matters by any means. When you focus on end tier raiding you look at guilds not in the top 10-15 where 6 split runs aren't mandatory and class stacking is a bit less prevalent.

[D3athsting]

Back at it again with the shit logic. Arcane has one of the strongest t21 tier sets. Now fire may be a little wishywashy at the start of a tier but it always comes back to top5 after people start cheesing. Frost is the same way.

Method has a Mage for every kill they have not like that matters by any means. When you focus on end tier raiding you look at guilds not in the top 10-15 where 6 split runs aren't mandatory and class stacking is a bit less prevalent.

Oh i see so fire/frost will be good for farming when in 960gear bosses die in 2 minutes and you can have 75% hero uptime, like if some1 really cares aboud dps in farming for anything other than e-peen

[Soulwell]

Oh i see so fire/frost will be good for farming when in 960gear bosses die in 2 minutes and you can have 75% hero uptime, like if some1 really cares aboud dps in farming for anything other than e-peen

But it's parses based on your logic they are set in stone.
We should care about the 2 week parses more than the end of the tier parses.
Jesus Christ you're stupid. You actually think people are trying to parse on the first clear of mythic? No they are doing the mechanics and trying to min/max damage while doing the mechanics but since it's progression it's not like you're min/maxing perfectly at least not at the 75% you want people to think is relevant.
Stick to your ground, you either want the median average player or you want to look at top parses for people that actually know how to play their class. Either way you're wrong.

[Swizzle]

From what I've seen healing normal and heroic, Fire and Frost simply demolish Arcane. Maybe the spec starts performing better at Mythic levels, but for normal play, you're better off with Frost and Fire.

[D3athsting]

From what I've seen healing normal and heroic, Fire and Frost simply demolish Arcane. Maybe the spec starts performing better at Mythic levels, but for normal play, you're better off with Frost and Fire.

have fun with rop on mythic...

srsly if they ever decide to remove that crap spell once and for all, number of ppl playing arcane will go up noticeably

[The Archmage]

For Fire at least, it was to be expected. ToS has been probably the best Fire tier that ever was. A part from Goroth and Maiden, all other fights were expecially good for Fire almost naturally. It was overall the best spec in the game.

However, i don't see ouselves as bad now. We shine a bit less, Frost is a little more prevalent now, but i think it's only fair. Min/Max where you can, play optimally, and you will rock the content regardless: leave the class stacking to the world first racers, that's the only place where these kind of discussions are actually relevant. For everyone else, all specs are fine at the moment, with some just being slightly better the others.

[Soulwell]

From what I've seen healing normal and heroic, Fire and Frost simply demolish Arcane. Maybe the spec starts performing better at Mythic levels, but for normal play, you're better off with Frost and Fire.

It's simply isn't true. Arcane can be even with fire and frost single target it's just both fire and frost have quite a bit of rng whereas arcane is a more stable spec. Arcane single target with double ring is actually very unforgiving and difficult to play. So you'll see quite a bit of arcane mages low but arcane does have the potential to out dps fire and frost given the environment.

For Fire at least, it was to be expected. ToS has been probably the best Fire tier that ever was. A part from Goroth and Maiden, all other fights were expecially good for Fire almost naturally. It was overall the best spec in the game.

However, i don't see ouselves as bad now. We shine a bit less, Frost is a little more prevalent now, but i think it's only fair. Min/Max where you can, play optimally, and you will rock the content regardless: leave the class stacking to the world first racers, that's the only place where these kind of discussions are actually relevant. For everyone else, all specs are fine at the moment, with some just being slightly better the others.

You see this is why you're a mod.

[D3athsting]

Definitely given up on fire, stacking ap on aluneth, fire just doesn't feel right to be spamming instant pyros that hit like wet noodles, while dpsing you see all those pyro crits and numbers everywhere and think "woah i'm nuking the shit of this guy" then you open skada and just want to either cry or throw your pc out of the window...

[Deleted]

Definitely given up on fire, stacking ap on aluneth, fire just doesn't feel right to be spamming instant pyros that hit like wet noodles, while dpsing you see all those pyro crits and numbers everywhere and think "woah i'm nuking the shit of this guy" then you open skada and just want to either cry or throw your pc out of the window...

Yeah switched away from fire because of this reason. Pyro just doesn't hurt while you throw around 4 mil icelances like a madman as frost.

[Deleted]

Oh yeah p16-17-22 on 75th perc. hc is totally fine
T20 stronger than T21 for fire is totally fine too

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#difficulty=4

There are only 3 points between frost and fire, and the 3rd best spec according to these parses (enhancement shaman). The difference is barely noticeable and the vast majority of the dps specs are incredibly close. That reminds me of http://www.darklegacycomics.com/558

[Swizzle]

It's simply isn't true. Arcane can be even with fire and frost single target it's just both fire and frost have quite a bit of rng whereas arcane is a more stable spec. Arcane single target with double ring is actually very unforgiving and difficult to play. So you'll see quite a bit of arcane mages low but arcane does have the potential to out dps fire and frost given the environment.

What isn't true? My anecdotal experience? I literally said from watching Normal and Heroic while healing it, I haven't seen Arcane keep up. There's no true or false there, that's my limited experience. If Arcane has the potential for super high DPS, then that's great, I'm just not seeing it.