Celestalon is gone and moved on

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So like every other developer who left, things only got WORSE. Can you honestly say that ANYTHING has gotten BETTER since WOTLK? ANYTHING???

Yes but that would go against your narrative.

[Spookysheep]

Yes but that would go against your narrative.

Very weak retort. Name ONE thing.

[Deleted]

Knowing what you think is best for the game is a job requirement to be a lead designer or game director. That's literally the fucking job.

Whether you personally agree with the decision or not is irrelevant to the requirement to make a fucking decision without holding the hand and taking the temperature of everyone who posts on a official forum or fan site.

The problem is when you are objectively wrong.

Celestalon has went on a semi-rant wondering why people cared about spell schools because it was "just cosmetic" - this MIGHT have been forgivable if it wasn't in fucking WOD around Highmaul where dealing Chaos damage LITERALLY MADE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SPELLCASTER DOING DAMAGE AND JUST BEING SACRIFICIAL FODDER BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T DEAL DAMAGE.

Deciding what direction to take the game is one thing.
Being straight up WRONG repeatedly over things is another.

He might have avoided the hate he got if he was at least tolerable to interact with like GC was, GC was generally sympathetic to peoples gripes even if he was adamant against catering to them - Celestalon's response to warlocks wanting Fel Flame in their toolkit, a spell that back in Cataclysm was below Life Tap on the priority list, was to tell people that they "just wanted to be OP", and that was hardly a rarity.

He was publicly clueless on enough topics and toxic enough to interact with that it's hardly just a case of "difference in personal opinions" that resulted in the hate he gets.

[Dystemper]

And now , Lets see How long Ion lasts

[Lightforged]

duplicate post, sorry

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Knowing what you think is best for the game is a job requirement to be a lead designer or game director. That's literally the fucking job.

Whether you personally agree with the decision or not is irrelevant to the requirement to make a fucking decision without holding the hand and taking the temperature of everyone who posts on a official forum or fan site.

I meant Celestalon, not Ion. Oops.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Very weak retort. Name ONE thing.

We got Flex Raiding, Transmog better character models, etc etc.

[Spoonman]

Lol cant belive how much ppl hated this guy

[Craaazyyy]

We got Flex Raiding, Transmog better character models, etc etc.

i dunno if character models are better tbh

[Mad_Murdock]

Very weak retort. Name ONE thing.

Isn't this fairly subjective?
I like the new daily system (WQs).
I like LFR
I like the ability to group cross realms in general and now that made it where I don't even have to share my battlenet ID, I can just click a button and join a group
I like that raiding can be cross realm we raided most of HFC with a guild from another server and flexible sizes are awesome.
I like that I can now join a raid group and even though I already killed that raid boss I'm not locked out of the raid.

I like that most quest items don't take up bag space,
I love transmog
I love that I can craft items with the mats in the bank
Mounts\titles are across my Bnet account, void storage when it was needed,
The new Transmog that makes it so I don't need to keep the item in the bank to have the appearance.
I like titanforge and warforge items, it does motivate me to do things I normally wouldn't do because of the lack of upgrades offered
I like the previous talent changes, not a huge fan of the Legion change where it can only be done in a resting zone, but it's been mostly meh.
I liked reforging, at the same time I am kind glad it went away.

I don't love every aspect of this game, legion actually had the most negative impact on me playing compared to other Xpacs. I didn't like the class changes this go around, really ruined the classes I liked playing most. This will be the first Xpac where I spent more time Unsubbed than subbed, but at the same time I may just be burnt out period.

[|Dexter|]

In other news, Hearthstone's class decks will be updated next patch to only have 4 core class cards,
The other spells will be removed and if you got that cards they will be auto turn into dust.
Also, the card pack price goes up and the "gold" price of the pack is now 3 times it's now.

They also added the Pay To Win card that if you lucky can find in the new card packs.... it got a 1 into 10.000 loot change.
If you do get the "Pay to Win card" in your deck and you play this 5 mana card it instantly charges your credit card 3 dollars every time, but you win the game instantly!

[Gaidax]

Retarded WoW community will find another scrapegoat to ridicule and blame all their woes on, business as usual.

Honestly, I feel as if Blizzard on purpose sets some decoy each time for everyone to single out, just so they would not bother the team.

[Fabinas]

Except that's not true either in this case, because if he was actually bad, they wouldn't have let him stay at Blizzard at all.

Being bad working @Wow=/=being bad employee

[Deleted]

Sad to see the best developer WoW ever had go. Atleast he told the community the truth.

[Fabinas]

Sad to see the best developer WoW ever had go. Atleast he told the community the truth.

Fail2troll

[MoanaLisa]

He might have avoided the hate he got if he was at least tolerable to interact with like GC was, GC was generally sympathetic to peoples gripes even if he was adamant against catering to them <snip>.

He was publicly clueless on enough topics and toxic enough to interact with that it's hardly just a case of "difference in personal opinions" that resulted in the hate he gets.

That's laughable given how GC was treated by players.

If it was just him I might agree with you. He was noticeably unsuited to acting as any sort of interface with players. That said, it isn't just him. The volume of hate leveled at developers is directly proportionate to how much they do of that precious interaction with players that everyone says they crave so much. The more they do the more abuse they take. There is no job description on the planet that says "You will be required to engage in public interaction with our customers which is liable to subject you to being doxxed, abused and insulted." You know why all the years that Chilton was in charge of the game you rarely saw long screeds of insults about his personal character? Because he kept his mouth shut and kept most of his comments to places where there was no easy way to simply dash off a reply.

Nope. They should just stay quiet.

[Tabrotar]

Knowing what you think is best for the game is a job requirement to be a lead designer or game director. That's literally the fucking job.

Whether you personally agree with the decision or not is irrelevant to the requirement to make a fucking decision without holding the hand and taking the temperature of everyone who posts on a official forum or fan site.

So when countless people with arguments fucking backed with numbers and lots of theorycrafting again and again and again tell them that whatever their "vision" is is a fucking pile of shit and they still went on with "You didn´t know anything we have our numbers and we know what´s good for the game" thinking they ofc are what the game needs...

Please tell me again how telling paying customers that they´re playing a specc they won´t have them to play is a smart move i´m waiting.

[Spookysheep]

Isn't this fairly subjective?
I like the new daily system (WQs).
I like LFR
I like the ability to group cross realms in general and now that made it where I don't even have to share my battlenet ID, I can just click a button and join a group
I like that raiding can be cross realm we raided most of HFC with a guild from another server and flexible sizes are awesome.
I like that I can now join a raid group and even though I already killed that raid boss I'm not locked out of the raid.

I like that most quest items don't take up bag space,
I love transmog
I love that I can craft items with the mats in the bank
Mounts\titles are across my Bnet account, void storage when it was needed,
The new Transmog that makes it so I don't need to keep the item in the bank to have the appearance.
I like titanforge and warforge items, it does motivate me to do things I normally wouldn't do because of the lack of upgrades offered
I like the previous talent changes, not a huge fan of the Legion change where it can only be done in a resting zone, but it's been mostly meh.
I liked reforging, at the same time I am kind glad it went away.

I don't love every aspect of this game, legion actually had the most negative impact on me playing compared to other Xpacs. I didn't like the class changes this go around, really ruined the classes I liked playing most. This will be the first Xpac where I spent more time Unsubbed than subbed, but at the same time I may just be burnt out period.

None of which were done by Celestalon. Next.

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We got Flex Raiding, Transmog better character models, etc etc.

Not from Celestalon. Next.

[Bryntrollian]

Or maybe after a 3rd person starts the position, people will realize it really wasnt ghostcrawler or celestalon working alone.

They won't and the cycle will continue.

[Mad_Murdock]

None of which were done by Celestalon. Next.

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Not from Celestalon. Next.

Guess I misread your question, you asked if anything has gotten better since Wrath, didn't know you meant purely from 1 person. How do we even know who comes up with what and who helps makes an idea better?

[Kralljin]

Chilton and Holinka are recent so it's hard to compare it to Ghostcrawler.

I think GC is pretty much the exception, there are a few threads here and there, but i don't think every dev will be suddenly seen as "decent" once they left WoW.

Ben Brode seems pretty happy I dunno what you're smokin

Brode started out as a tester at Blizzard, first Warcraft 3, then QA for WoW.

Considering that, i think being Game director of HS is a big step up on that regard.

But seriously, if one of the devs feels like they're being "degraded to HS" they wouldn't announce it on Twitter / official forums, they would just move and not make it public.