Dear retail players, don't mess this up for us. As damages done will be irreversible.

[Ragingheadache]

I am interested in seeing what they'll do with Classic, but in my opinion there's little appeal to a classic server unless they revamp it somewhat. The original quests were boring. Running out of quests was boring. Walking everywhere was boring. Class balance was terrible.

Updated graphics and new class/race combos were great additions to the game, along with updated questlines from Cata. They really did a great job of revamping the old world. Draenei were a great addition to the game!

The only appeal for me would be to see original Booty Bay and Darkshore again. That's about it. Maybe some PvP.

I honestly don't think I can play the game if they don't update the graphics, though.

I'll be playing classic because it is vanilla, old graphics et al. I play vanilla on private servers and when I'm in the mood I thoroughly enjoy the slower levelling experience, the having to work out where to find quest locations, the slower combat as a change from the more modern MMO playstyles. And when I'm not in the mood I'll play Legion, Secret World Legends, Farming Simulator or even sit and have a chat with the Mrs. Life can exist of more than one thing and this whole retailers v classic'ers is just facile.

[Wiedzemir]

Interesting last few pages. Do you honestly say that cash shop in vanilla is a good idea? Do you think the people who asked for vanilla specifically are going to accept it? Do you think it has place in vanilla?
I can only speak for myself but I'd not touch it with a mile long pole if it goes f2p cash shop mode. I also don't understand this squabble about $12-$15 per month.This amount of money wasn't a problem when I was kid and it's definitely not something I'd think about nowadays. It's such a negligibly small amount to pay to play the game I enjoyed so much.

Also, I saw comparisons to EQ and whatever Daybreak is up to nowadays and this amazes me. Have you actually played whatever Daybreak has to offer? If you think it's a good model, you should try and take a look. Especially if you played the old EQ. Both EQ and EQ2 progression servers aren't "classic" ones, they just use the most recent version of the game and roll out content on schedule.

[Deleted]

Interesting last few pages. Do you honestly say that cash shop in vanilla is a good idea? Do you think the people who asked for vanilla specifically are going to accept it? Do you think it has place in vanilla?
I can only speak for myself but I'd not touch it with a mile long pole if it goes f2p cash shop mode. I also don't understand this squabble about $12-$15 per month.This amount of money wasn't a problem when I was kid and it's definitely not something I'd think about nowadays. It's such a negligibly small amount to pay to play the game I enjoyed so much.

Also, I saw comparisons to EQ and whatever Daybreak is up to nowadays and this amazes me. Have you actually played whatever Daybreak has to offer? If you think it's a good model, you should try and take a look. Especially if you played the old EQ. Both EQ and EQ2 progression servers aren't "classic" ones, they just use the most recent version of the game and roll out content on schedule.

Apparently there is a lot of ppl on mmo-c without a job. I'm guessing thats why they are here in the first place

[Kolbjorn]

Your point. What was the point of your post. I didnt ask you what release schedule you think the game is going to have. I've never talked about how the games influence eachother. I've never said they dont.

What i'm saying is that they arent going to release vanilla servers with a lot of support staff without having a way of making money off it.

So what was your point with that post exactly.

The point is that you don't understand that Blizzard doesn't look at each product in a vacuum. Classic doesn't necessarily have to be profitable on its own. They're maximizing sum( Live profit + Classic profit ). If Classic mitigates Live churn, it will have a different pricing model than if it has no effect on Live. The schedule (may be) designed to evaluate their interrelation, and (may be) designed to evaluate pricing models.

[Celista]

Interesting last few pages. Do you honestly say that cash shop in vanilla is a good idea? Do you think the people who asked for vanilla specifically are going to accept it? Do you think it has place in vanilla?
I can only speak for myself but I'd not touch it with a mile long pole if it goes f2p cash shop mode. I also don't understand this squabble about $12-$15 per month.This amount of money wasn't a problem when I was kid and it's definitely not something I'd think about nowadays. It's such a negligibly small amount to pay to play the game I enjoyed so much.

Also, I saw comparisons to EQ and whatever Daybreak is up to nowadays and this amazes me. Have you actually played whatever Daybreak has to offer? If you think it's a good model, you should try and take a look. Especially if you played the old EQ. Both EQ and EQ2 progression servers aren't "classic" ones, they just use the most recent version of the game and roll out content on schedule.

The argument about a cash shop isn't about $15 a month being too much for a sub, it's about what financial model gaming companies are using now for their games. Even Blizzard hasn't used a sub model for most of their new IPs, Hearthstone was released f2p + cash shop and Overwatch was b2p + cash shop. Starcraft is now f2p.

Cash shops can be and are usually very lucrative for companies.

[Wiedzemir]

The argument about a cash shop isn't about $15 a month being too much for a sub, it's about what financial model gaming companies are using now for their games. Even Blizzard hasn't used a sub model for most of their new IPs, Hearthstone was released f2p + cash shop and Overwatch was b2p + cash shop. Starcraft is now f2p.

Cash shops can be and are usually very lucrative for companies.

Battlefront 2?

And I reiterate the question, what's the point of vanilla with cash shop? It can be lucrative on paper but it no one buys anything because no one plays it, then it's not going to work. If anything, BfA is more likely to go f2p than classic simply because the game design won't allow you to sell anything without removing any point of playing it in classic while BfA is a new and shiny thing that can be designed any whatever way they want.

[Celista]

Battlefront 2?

And I reiterate the question, what's the point of vanilla with cash shop? It can be lucrative on paper but it no one buys anything because no one plays it, then it's not going to work. If anything, BfA is more likely to go f2p than classic simply because the game design won't allow you to sell anything without removing any point of playing it in classic while BfA is a new and shiny thing that can be designed any whatever way they want.

Usually the way cash shops work is that they lure in people that might balk at a sub price each month but are willing to spend a few bucks here and there on microtransactions. Private server players often fall into this category, due to various reasons.

The model tends to work because you have some players that spend a little, but also some players that spend a whole lot. So it works out in the end.

I personally don't care what model Blizzard uses, but I think if they do a sub model then I'm not sure if current expansion players are going to shell out $15/mo for BfA and another $15/mo for classic access. I think players will choose one or the other.

[Wiedzemir]

I personally don't care what model Blizzard uses, but I think if they do a sub model then I'm not sure if current expansion players are going to shell out $15/mo for BfA and another $15/mo for classic access. I think players will choose one or the other.

I agree, it's unlikely. What's going to happen I think is that Blizzard is going to include Classic into the base sub. It makes sense to grow the user base and to inflate the subscription numbers. Plus this way they avoid any potential questions about which % of the player base prefers what. I have some serious doubts that the current player base that is happy with modern WoW will have a huge interest in Classic, the game is just too different. However, if Blizzard is betting on returning players or the crowd that earns for older games and remasters, and the crowd is rather big as show by all of the recent remastered\HD and Enhanced re-releases of the old games.

[Racthoh]

any damage done certainly won't be irreversible, in a few years they will be swinging back and forth with voted changes.

[Deleted]

The point is that you don't understand that Blizzard doesn't look at each product in a vacuum. Classic doesn't necessarily have to be profitable on its own. They're maximizing sum( Live profit + Classic profit ). If Classic mitigates Live churn, it will have a different pricing model than if it has no effect on Live. The schedule (may be) designed to evaluate their interrelation, and (may be) designed to evaluate pricing models.

I dont think you even understand what you are saying yourself. Like for real.

1. Classic doesnt have to be profitable on its own
2. They are maximising sum(live + classic profit) - Classic doesnt have a profit if it has no income. How is that maximising sum?
3. If classic mitigates live churn - are you actually dumb enough to think it wont mitigate their churn if they release classic servers with all the support staff needed 100% free of charge. What in the world.... how does that make sense anywhere?

If classic becomes 100% free you think people will suddenly go crazy and buy retail subs? THere is no logic behind your statements

THe schedule is comepletely irrelevant to all this. Even if it may or may not change, it doesnt matter for our discussion. There is no need for you to keep bringing up scheduling changes that you know nothing about

You are digging yourself into a logic void hole that you cant get out of soon

Edit:

Also this "The point is that you don't understand that Blizzard doesn't look at each product in a vacuum". You can state that as a fact as much as you want to buy the actual fact is that you pulled that fact from your behind. You simply dont know that. Its pure speculation

[Kolbjorn]

2. They are maximising sum(live + classic profit) - Classic doesnt have a profit if it has no income. How is that maximising sum?

I don't think you'll understand this either... but let's try it a different way.

Live's revenue is like a sin function that peaks on expansion releases. For purpose of discussion, assume it's "Revenue = Sin(t) + 2" (the +2 is because it doesn't actually go negative).

Activision/Blizzard's investors would rather it look something like "Revenue = C*t + 1.8", where C is some positive constant. This is known. Go either read the investor calls, or network with some gaming business people. They'll both tell you the same thing.

If Classic reduces churn from live, such that live's revenue changed to something like: "Revenue = max(sin(t),0) + 2", live's revenue would increase significantly.

Classic's implicit revenue would be the parts of the sin function that were filled in. Assuming that's greater than the cost of running Classic, then Classic itself would not necessarily need to generate dedicated revenue.


It's not "logic" that you can "logic" your way out of. It's basic market strategy. At minimum, I'd recommend you go take a class before you start calling people dumb. You might also want to do a corporate finance class, so they can tell you to go read all the same investor call transcripts I'm telling you to.

And again... I see it as a 20-30% chance, not a 100% thing. Building it into the Live subscription seems more likely given numbers we know, but it's silly to rule it out.

[MasterHamster]

Players making informed decisions on class/spec etc will ruin the experience regardless. Keeping it 100% pure is an admirable undertaking but ultimately not sustainable. People will start demanding fixes and balance changes eventually, no matter how much people want to believe this niche community is so determined that is shall be and remain pure, because eventually many will come to resent it. Because it STILL will not be like it was when classic was live.
You'll get a static snapshot of the games everchanging timeline, and people will grow bored quickly, that I can guarantee.

And I can't imagine the forums will be pleasant as people sort of comes to terms with the fact that they are playing a stale shadow, OP will always remain OP, underpowered and useless will remain as such. Then again I expect 80% of all players to go Mage/Warr/Priest/Rogue. Why roll anything permanently subpar?
It's the kind of experience you accepted on private realms because it wasn't run by an official dev team.

I don't think you complained about bugs or awful balance on Nost, but once it's live run by Blizzard itself and the general playerbase rolls in, hooo boy I ain't envious of the mods' work then. The amount of flame wars between those who keep insisting no changes may happen ever, and those who want a more balanced experience (read: more than half of all specs actually viable at 60) will rage until the whole experiment shuts down.

If they're going to actually go with the "no changes ever" route, they may as well reset the entire server every 6 months just to keep players from growing too restless. I think it's fairly obvious however that Blizzard will eventually see that they either make some minor changes here and there, or this whole thing will die down in a few months.

[Maudib]

If they're going to actually go with the "no changes ever" route, they may as well reset the entire server every 6 months just to keep players from growing too restless. I think it's fairly obvious however that Blizzard will eventually see that they either make some minor changes here and there, or this whole thing will die down in a few months.

I don't see that.... I see them following the progression as live was. Vanilla, BC...then Wrath... even with moderate acceleration... there's 5 years+ of content right there.

[Ausr]

Honestly, I'm just going to look on as people's dreams are shattered when they re-enter the horribleness of what vanilla WoW was. If you want to call me names and say "go enjoy modern" I will enjoy it.

[Echocho]

And I can't imagine the forums will be pleasant as people sort of comes to terms with the fact that they are playing a stale shadow, OP will always remain OP, underpowered and useless will remain as such. Then again I expect 80% of all players to go Mage/Warr/Priest/Rogue. Why roll anything permanently subpar?
It's the kind of experience you accepted on private realms because it wasn't run by an official dev team.

A very good point. Why play something that's only there to support the A team of classes? If you don't play one of the overpowered classes you'll be forever looked down on by the ones who do.

[Kakera]

How absolutely ignorant can one be. Astonishing.

I agree with you. It is insane how people cannot see the good intentions hidden behind aggressive behavior. You should seriously seek help if you think living in the past is healthy. I'll pray for you.

[MechaCThun]

TIL the term "retail players" has a negative connotation and is often times used for means to demean.

[Deleted]

Seemed pretty easy for them to add Destiny 2 (a game not even their own) onto BNet?
Actually plugging Classic WoW into BNet will be simple. I doubt it will veen be an option of it's own... but a drop down from the current Wow section... i.e. where you select PTR or other accounts... you will have a Classic option.
Anywho... yeah. If a handful of unpaid people can get Nostralius up and running... imagine people who already have the original code can do...

Are you REALLY THAT silly that you compare a NEW coded game with a nearly 20 year old game which code has to be changed to put it into bnet?
(news flash silly vanilla wasnt part of the bnet we have now)
but yeah go on proving you are just a SILLY arm-chair-developer with now IDEA how hard it is to change 20 year old code....

[Deleted]

I agree, it's unlikely. What's going to happen I think is that Blizzard is going to include Classic into the base sub. It makes sense to grow the user base and to inflate the subscription numbers. Plus this way they avoid any potential questions about which % of the player base prefers what. I have some serious doubts that the current player base that is happy with modern WoW will have a huge interest in Classic, the game is just too different. However, if Blizzard is betting on returning players or the crowd that earns for older games and remasters, and the crowd is rather big as show by all of the recent remastered\HD and Enhanced re-releases of the old games.

I know that I will not be playing on a Classic server if it's not part of my current WoW sub, this is 100% sure. If access to classic servers would be included, then I could probably do a tourist / event approach, if my guild mates would want to play Classic and would want me to come along. So at least in my case you are totally right, and who knows how many players think just like that.

Anyway, I will be completely happy without Classic servers, so... do what you please.

[Maudib]

Are you REALLY THAT silly that you compare a NEW coded game with a nearly 20 year old game which code has to be changed to put it into bnet?
(news flash silly vanilla wasnt part of the bnet we have now)
but yeah go on proving you are just a SILLY arm-chair-developer with now IDEA how hard it is to change 20 year old code....

It is you that truly misunderstands programming. BNet is how the game runs. For instance.. look in your WoW folder.

Now... double click: World of Warcraft Launcher.exe

What do you get? Battle.Net

Now double click Wow.exe or Wow-64.exe... NOW what do you get? Retail WoW.

As a programmer, I could go in, rename the launcher code to point to a classic wow folder, and launch the Classic Client. The client is completely standalone from the launcher (Bnet).

The only "work" they would need to do is update calls from the game to external resources like the ticketing system.

HA HA! When I launch the Vanilla Client today it tells me about the official maintenance happening to retail because that call never changed.

Vanilla WoW works today. The only thing WoW has to stand up is the server code... which is basically a glorified database. It is easy peasy.

What they WANT to do is use existing servers to serve both games... in order to do that they need to establish some socketing code that will allow vanilla's calls to call to the newer servers.

They don't have to reinvent the wheel... and like people say that vanilla is going to be easier because we already know everything and are better at mechanics than back then... shouldn't coders who have been working with WoW for 14 years, and continually learning about MMO programming/serving be so much better at coding this stuff? I mean... they aren't creating new assets, models, terrain, sound, music, voice, mechanics, spells/abilities, NOTHING... they are simply coding some interfaces.