What is the logic behind saying Piracy is stealing?

[Themius]

I'm too poor to start a business so I'm going to rob a bank. It's ok though because I'll pay it back when I'm successful.

I'm not sure if I want to buy a new Camry so I'm just going to take one off the lot and drive it for a few days. It's a ok because If I like it I'll go back to the dealership and pay for it.

I would never spend money on a Porsche so I'll just take one from a dealership and that's ok.

None of those are equivalent. They just make you look silly.

The morality of a poor person downloading software and then paying for it later and a poor person sticking up people in a bank and then physically taking money lowering the banks stock of money isn’t equivalent as licenses can be created infinitely

[Dasffion]

None of those are equivalent. They just make you look silly.

The morality of a poor person downloading software and then paying for it later and a poor person sticking up people in a bank and then physically taking money lowering the banks stock of money isn’t equivalent as licenses can be created infinitely

They are in fact the same. You are taking something that doesn't belong to you and the fact that you intend to pay for it later doesn't make a difference.

[Themius]

They are in fact the same. You are taking something that doesn't belong to you and the fact that you intend to pay for it later doesn't make a difference.

They’re the same? Well that’s quite the gem of stupid arguments I’ve heard today.

Illegally downloading music and sticking up a bank are the same on what planet?

[Dasffion]

They’re the same? Well that’s quite the gem of stupid arguments I’ve heard today.

Illegally downloading music and sticking up a bank are the same on what planet?

I'm sorry I forgot this entire thread is about arguing semantics so I should have said "essentially the same". In both cases you're taking something you don't own without compensation, yes one is more personal than the other but they're both theft. At least one of you finally admitted it's illegal. That's a step in the right direction.

[Themius]

I'm sorry I forgot this entire thread is about arguing semantics so I should have said "essentially the same". In both cases you're taking something you don't own without compensation, yes one is more personal than the other but they're both theft. At least one of you finally admitted it's illegal. That's a step in the right direction.

They’re in no way essentially the same. That’s equally a dumb thing to say.

One you cause a direct loss

The other whether you cause a direct loss or not can’t be determined.

[Rotted]

Report bait. It's not.

Good luck with that.

Stealing btw

[Themius]

Good luck with that.

Stealing btw

Supreme court says it isn't.

[Kakera]

Good luck with that.

Stealing btw

It's not btw.

[Bigbazz]

No. You're just ignoring facts to make your argument work. Doesn't work that way. Sorry 'bout it!

From a technical point of view, they are using stolen Intellectual property. Did they pay the licensing fee(s) to Blizzard? No. Did they obtain permission from Blizzard to offer said product? No. Ergo they are using stolen intellectual property. Did they license the use of Blizzard's trademarks? No. Ergo they are violating those as well.

You're just not even on the same page here, what are you trying to argue exactly. What I posted was an actual objective fact, it wasn't an opinion it was an explanation of exactly what they are and are not doing.

[Cedon]

You're just not even on the same page here, what are you trying to argue exactly. What I posted was an actual objective fact, it wasn't an opinion it was an explanation of exactly what they are and are not doing.

No, you're just trying to backtrack and change your argument... or lack thereof. You stated private servers are not stealing anything. They are. They are NOT using 100% home-grown code. They're using Blizzard's which is copyrighted. That code also contains artwork, text, characters and other intellectual properties that do not belong to them, they belong to Blizzard under US Copyright Law, International Copyright Law, and various treaties/agreements between nations.

Get me another straw man and I'll gladly torch it for you. My feet are cold.

[Bigbazz]

No, you're just trying to backtrack and change your argument... or lack thereof. You stated private servers are not stealing anything. They are. They are NOT using 100% home-grown code. They're using Blizzard's which is copyrighted. That code also contains artwork, text, characters and other intellectual properties that do not belong to them, they belong to Blizzard under US Copyright Law, International Copyright Law, and various treaties/agreements between nations.

Get me another straw man and I'll gladly torch it for you. My feet are cold.

All of my posts have no put forward an opinion or side, I have explained exactly what is taking place and then you ignore it and decide try to steer it into a discussion which hinges upon you showing ignorance around the technical aspects of the topic, in addition to picking a side and being unable to discuss the topic from a neutral point of view.

I'm not going into a discussion with someone who doesn't understand even the basics of the technical aspects, let alone with someone who is unable to be neutral and look at it objectively from both sides.

[Vash The Stampede]

Piracy is usually a symptom that the industry is refusing to modernize itself to match consumer demand. For example, up until the introduction of the MP3 we used CDs. The CD held up to 12 songs and you didn't have any choices in what songs were on that disc. Then people could burn CDs which caused all sorts of problems. Technically if you burn music onto a CD and lend it to someone, that's illegal. Lots of legal battles were fought over burning CDs, and we quickly went past that to the MP3 player. The courts couldn't keep up with the rate that audio technology was evolving. Nowadays YouTube is new evil. If it were up to corporations we'd still be on music CD.

Another example of this is emulators. Emulators themselves are not illegal but the roms you acquire online are. A lot of people enjoy playing games they've bought on any platform they choose and emulators allow this. For example, Zelda Breath of the Wild is only on the Wii U and Switch but thanks to an emulator it will run in Windows. Nobody likes to buy hardware they don't need cause the company didn't want to port their games to other platforms. As much as people like exclusives, it isn't something that favors consumers. To make it worse a company will "Remaster" their older games to newer systems for a new game price. The graphic enhancements are nothing worth the extra cost usually as they just rely on the systems advanced graphics to upscale things, rather than redoing the artwork with higher textures. Like Sonic 2 HD which is a real remastering, unlike most games in the industry.

In this day in age even visiting a website like G2A is considered wrong. But can you blame people when they want to get the cheapest price now, rather than wait months or years for the price of the game to drop due to lack of interest? I also believe that piracy is a good way to try before you buy a game because the industry of full of terrible games. There's very few demos today and there's no shareware anymore.

[Tackhisis]

You're missing the point here, which is that it's a technical explanation to correct a misconception. From a technical point of view all they are doing is providing a server communication service, ... the only IP of Blizzard here is existing on the users computers from an original installation of the game.

No.

Are quest text, NPC speech and in-game books a Blizzard IP? Yes, they are. Are they necessary for the server to function? Yes, they are.
Same for the land geometry. Same for the game parameters.

[Rotted]

It's not btw.

Misspelled stealing again.

Out of interest did you report yourself for baiting when you reported me? as you're literally doing the same thing, only you're wrong and I'm right

[Talon8669]

What you don't understand is it's not the same as stealing someone's purse so no one gives a fuck.

It is exactly the same thing and people do care otherwise we wouldn't have laws. Theft is theft doesn't matter how you try to paint it, if you want to justify it for yourself then that's your own moral decision to make. The rest of us will do what's right and what's legal.

[melodramocracy]

None of those are equivalent. They just make you look silly.

The morality of a poor person downloading software and then paying for it later and a poor person sticking up people in a bank and then physically taking money lowering the banks stock of money isn’t equivalent as licenses can be created infinitely

Your bolded caveat happens far less frequently than anyone will actually admit.

[Themius]

Your bolded caveat happens far less frequently than anyone will actually admit.

Well again the only study we have points to a net positive for game devs

[SirCowdog]

I'm too poor to start a business so I'm going to rob a bank. It's ok though because I'll pay it back when I'm successful.

I'm not sure if I want to buy a new Camry so I'm just going to take one off the lot and drive it for a few days. It's a ok because If I like it I'll go back to the dealership and pay for it.

I would never spend money on a Porsche so I'll just take one from a dealership and that's ok.

This is a flawed example. In the case of digital software, the original owners or developers don't lose anything. There's no inventory to be lost. No physical object that isn't available to sell to someone else. In the case of someone stealing from a bank, actual money is unavailable. In the case of the Camry, the car is not available to sell.

In the case of software, the Photoshop program is still available to download or be sold to other customers. There isn't even any way to PROVE a net loss by the owners of that software, because there's no way to prove that someone who copies the software would have ever paid for it otherwise.

This is the primary difference between an actual theft and software piracy, and why the two need completely different classifications under law.

[Violent]

It's called MONEY.

If I want to get paid for something that can easily be "worked-around". then the most logical thing to do is to make that "work-around" illegal.

You get in trouble, I get to continue making money to legit LIVE. Off of something that really isn't even "physically" there.

IP-Piracy.

[crewskater]

It is exactly the same thing and people do care otherwise we wouldn't have laws. Theft is theft doesn't matter how you try to paint it, if you want to justify it for yourself then that's your own moral decision to make. The rest of us will do what's right and what's legal.

If you think downloading a song is equivalent to stealing someone's purse, then you've demonstrated to everyone that you don't know what a proper comparison is. Apples to oranges.