How much of Bolvar is left in the Lich King?

[CreatureLives]

Maybe Bolvar is starting to forget who he is and is starting to think that the memories of Arthas and Ner'zhul are his own. So attacking Light's Hope was an Arthas move but he's starting to think it was his own thing. That's not to say that Bolvar isn't still there it's just it's getting hard for him to tell the memories apart. Especially when you visualize memories you don't exactly see it in third person. You see everything from a first person perspective.

[Aquamonkey]

What if Bolvar always secretly hated Light's Hope? Like his ex-wife ran off with some paly there.

[Schattenlied]

Sure. But I am 100% Triron would have volunteered to be revived as a Death Knight to fight the legion.

The spirits of the fallen entombed there (Tirion included) are what pushed the Death Knights out of Light's Hope... If Tirion wanted to be a Death Knight, he would be one.

Far as I'm concerned, after that fucking stunt, all the Death Knights who participated in that shit should be put back in the ground.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Sure. But I am 100% Triron would have volunteered to be revived as a Death Knight to fight the legion.

I should think he would be more likely to volunteer if we hadn't murdered several of his fellow paladins (rezzing more as mindless undead) getting in to ask him.

- - - Updated - - -

The spirits of the fallen entombed there (Tirion included) are what pushed the Death Knights out of Light's Hope... If Tirion wanted to be a Death Knight, he would be one.

Far as I'm concerned, after that fucking stunt, all the Death Knights who participated in that shit should be put back in the ground.

My DK always respected the hell out of Tirion and saluted him every time our paths crossed. My take away from the starter zone was that Tirion did more to resurrect us than Arthas had. It was thanks to Tirion (with an assist from Darion) that we were freed from the Lich King's grasp, thanks to Tirion that we were accepted back into society. And this is how we repay them all?

[OIS]

My DK always respected the hell out of Tirion and saluted him every time our paths crossed.

Why though? The Argent Crusade was never really fond of death knights from what I see and Tirion probably pities them at best, due to their condition. Sure, it's nice that he restored their free will instead of smiting them on the spot, but that hardly would warrant any gratitude or respect given how much of an asshole death knights are and the fact that undeath sucks ass.

[Piamonte]

Maybe Bolvar is starting to forget who he is and is starting to think that the memories of Arthas and Ner'zhul are his own. So attacking Light's Hope was an Arthas move but he's starting to think it was his own thing. That's not to say that Bolvar isn't still there it's just it's getting hard for him to tell the memories apart. Especially when you visualize memories you don't exactly see it in third person. You see everything from a first person perspective.

while i agree with this, Bolvar is alive and stil owns his soul, i think this plays a part in whether or not he can separate his memories from the memories of the crown

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Why though? The Argent Crusade was never really fond of death knights from what I see and Tirion probably pities them at best, due to their condition. Sure, it's nice that he restored their free will instead of smiting them on the spot, but that hardly would warrant any gratitude or respect given how much of an asshole death knights are and the fact that undeath sucks ass.

Darion Morgraine clearly respects Tirion; why shouldn't I?

[Kromkar]

I hope we see Bolvar's story expand in BfA, seriously wondering what is going on in he's mind!

[cparle87]

Gezzz no! I hate Tirion!
Since TOC i hutterly despise him. Allowing horde and alliance to fight and then complaint on the outcome. Like REALLY? WTF DID U expect????
I glad he is gone

Allowing the Horde and the Alliance to compete against each other in a controlled environment to decide the most capable individuals to bring with him to the siege of Icecrown Citadel is a very, VERY different thing than simply ignoring them as they brawl amongst each other over personal or faction quarrels. If you're referring to the battle in the raid, I think it was a calculated move. If he refused to allow the Alliance/Horde to stand in for his own forces it's possible that Varian or Garrosh would've withdrawn their support from the Crusade, which would've been disastrous.

[HeiAggra]

Allowing the Horde and the Alliance to compete against each other in a controlled environment to decide the most capable individuals to bring with him to the siege of Icecrown Citadel is a very, VERY different thing than simply ignoring them as they brawl amongst each other over personal or faction quarrels. If you're referring to the battle in the raid, I think it was a calculated move. If he refused to allow the Alliance/Horde to stand in for his own forces it's possible that Varian or Garrosh would've withdrawn their support from the Crusade, which would've been disastrous.

Can u prove that?
They would not do that! They know the LK was too powerfull be to defected if they would not joined forces.

[cparle87]

Can u prove that?
They would not do that! They know the LK was too powerfull be to defected if they would not joined forces.

Considering Varian already walked out Khadgar who was beseeching him for help against an Old God, a being more dangerous than the Lich King. What was it Varian said at the Violet Citadel? "At the Wrathgate the Horde's partnership killed more of our men than the Scourge. I'm done with your Horde. May this... Death God, take you all." I'd say it's a miracle Tirion was even able to get Varian to come. Now I play Horde so I only know our side. Garrosh accuses the Alliance of deliberately summoning Jarraxus to kill the Horde heroes. Varian says the Alliance's honor has been besmirched, and insists his own men be sent in lieu of Tirion's. So. Cede to Varian's wishes. Or watch him walk out again when the world needs his help.

[HeiAggra]

Considering Varian already walked out Khadgar who was beseeching him for help against an Old God, a being more dangerous than the Lich King. What was it Varian said at the Violet Citadel? "At the Wrathgate the Horde's partnership killed more of our men than the Scourge. I'm done with your Horde. May this... Death God, take you all." I'd say it's a miracle Tirion was even able to get Varian to come. Now I play Horde so I only know our side. Garrosh accuses the Alliance of deliberately summoning Jarraxus to kill the Horde heroes. Varian says the Alliance's honor has been besmirched, and insists his own men be sent in lieu of Tirion's. So. Cede to Varian's wishes. Or watch him walk out again when the world needs his help.

Until now no Old God was much as a treath as the LK. I do not see the same way you do. Varion knows that the LK is Arthas he as some bussiness with him bevause of the fall of Lordearon. We would not walked away this time.
As for Garrosh , he was not the Warchief so the Horde would not leave the fight to the Alliance only to get all the glory.

[OIS]

Darion Morgraine clearly respects Tirion; why shouldn't I?

Yours is more like veneration though, in my opinion.

[cparle87]

Until now no Old God was much as a treath as the LK. I do not see the same way you do. Varion knows that the LK is Arthas he as some bussiness with him bevause of the fall of Lordearon. We would not walked away this time.
As for Garrosh , he was not the Warchief so the Horde would not leave the fight to the Alliance only to get all the glory.

But he WAS the supreme commander of the Warsong Offensive, the leader of all Horde operations in Northrend. He could do anything he wanted, so long as Thrall wasn't looking over his shoulder. To be fair, at the Violet Citadel and the Tournament grounds he didn't let that stop him.

[Magnagarde]

I would hope that Blizzard takes a huge amount of their time and actually implements a third playable faction in the form of the Scourge. All services and everything within WoW is coded from the aspect of having two factions, but having a third one is long overdue.

[Shelly]

Bolvar is still in there but his priorities have shifted.

DKs are cast as the group of the unwilling sacrifice and have been since the introduction of Thassarrian, they are the ones willing to do anything to make their goals happen.

Bolvar is now part of that order and with the Legion invasion he had two choices - either let loose the entirety of the Scourge of Northrend or to empower the champions of the Ebon Blade and various others to destroy the Legion but keep the Scourge under wraps.

His designs to keep the overwhelming undead armies of the Scourge under wraps required powerful sacrifices and heavy prices to be paid. So he pulled out his checkbook and said get on with the damn job, we're making omelets and I don't care if you turn the chicken coop into a slaughterhouse.

[Chromeshellking]

I would point towards the former Lich King and the phantom of Mathias Lenher and use that as the base of lore to build this foundation for Bolvar. Whatever is left will likely be so far gone as it was for Arthas that a part of him always will exist but be so small and powerless that it all but a reminder of what you paid to be the Jailer of the Damned.

[Immitis]

I think the implication is that it's entirely Bolvar now.

It's just that Bolvar is now evil, having been "jailer of the damned" for so long.

dude decided to be eternal jailer of the damned and couldnt even make it 4 years before he started quoting kingdom hearts

[Khaza-R]

In theory, Bolvar should be in complete control. Ner’zhul was banished either symbolically or literally by Arthas. And Arthas is very dead.

I think the Helm of Domination just gives the wearer the illusion of control. There was nothing left of the orcish part of Ner’zhul by the time he merged with Arthas. Same that Arthas completely lost this humanity wearing the helm in WotLK. The Lich King as really just the darkest part of both of them.

So the same should apply to Bolvar. What we see isn’t truly Bolvar, just a dark, twisted shadow of his soul.

[jellmoo]

Just the tip.