The coming ludite apocalypse

[Deleted]

I'd like to make a post about something greatly plaguing my mind.

We live in a world where automation / ai is advancing at a faster and faster pace we see it every day in our local supermarkets with self service tills, self service petrol pump's and its only set to get more prevalent. Now on the face of it this seems like such a great thing but we forget for every self service till that's 1 job no longer needed imagine a whole supermarket that's run by only 2-3 humans?

In the next 100 yrs we will face a world where the majority of the population will be redundant as all minimum wage jobs will be automated. We have seen through Blair's university for all initiative that intelligence isn't learnt but a combination of nature and nurture so we can't create the liberal solution of a nation of scientists. So when the majority are unemployed we know from history civil unrest follows.

How do we avoid society collapsing?

[Devilyaki]

I will be dead by then so I don’t really care about it Haha :P

[SirCowdog]

I'd like to make a post about something greatly plaguing my mind.

We live in a world where automation / ai is advancing at a faster and faster pace we see it every day in our local supermarkets with self service tills, self service petrol pump's and its only set to get more prevalent. Now on the face of it this seems like such a great thing but we forget for every self service till that's 1 job no longer needed imagine a whole supermarket that's run by only 2-3 humans?

In the next 100 yrs we will face a world where the majority of the population will be redundant as all minimum wage jobs will be automated. We have seen through Blair's university for all initiative that intelligence isn't learnt but a combination of nature and nurture so we can't create the liberal solution of a nation of scientists. So when the majority are unemployed we know from history civil unrest follows.

How do we avoid society collapsing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

There are two L's, yo.

[Laerrus]

I'd like to make a post about something greatly plaguing my mind.

We live in a world where automation / ai is advancing at a faster and faster pace we see it every day in our local supermarkets with self service tills, self service petrol pump's and its only set to get more prevalent. Now on the face of it this seems like such a great thing but we forget for every self service till that's 1 job no longer needed imagine a whole supermarket that's run by only 2-3 humans?

In the next 100 yrs we will face a world where the majority of the population will be redundant as all minimum wage jobs will be automated. We have seen through Blair's university for all initiative that intelligence isn't learnt but a combination of nature and nurture so we can't create the liberal solution of a nation of scientists. So when the majority are unemployed we know from history civil unrest follows.

How do we avoid society collapsing?

Become a multi-planetary species, with aspirations to spread out among the stars. This is our future and our destiny.

[Raakel]

Society, workfields, life will adapt as it always does. Things just get more complex but it's nothing to be afraid of.

When steam engines where invented during industrialisation in the 18th century people feared for their jobs, when PC's where invented they did, etc...

The truth is you will more likely just become an operator on a more complex job, i.e. while you where only trained to operate the handle of a machine in past your are now also trained to program it.

[Gestopft]

I'd like to make a post about something greatly plaguing my mind.

We live in a world where automation / ai is advancing at a faster and faster pace we see it every day in our local supermarkets with self service tills, self service petrol pump's and its only set to get more prevalent. Now on the face of it this seems like such a great thing but we forget for every self service till that's 1 job no longer needed imagine a whole supermarket that's run by only 2-3 humans?

In the next 100 yrs we will face a world where the majority of the population will be redundant as all minimum wage jobs will be automated. We have seen through Blair's university for all initiative that intelligence isn't learnt but a combination of nature and nurture so we can't create the liberal solution of a nation of scientists. So when the majority are unemployed we know from history civil unrest follows.

How do we avoid society collapsing?

The most common suggestion is a Universal Basic Income.

[Independent voter]

We've already had a lot of automation and unemployment is down to 4.4% so I'm hoping this trend continues and nobody will be out of a job a hundred years from now.

But I guess at some point, AI will do 100% of the jobs. I don't know if this will take more than a hundred years. Looking at the changes from 1900 to 2000, that's a lot of changes so 2017 to 2117 will have just as many changes if not more.

100% leisure time? Playing PC games all day, sex robot at night?

[Samin]

We will have to learn that jobs are not the backbone of a future society. They will still exist, but as a very different concept. Having a job will be something like owning a yacht is today, but instead of money being the requirement, it will be skill. Society will not (generally) look down on people who don't own a yacht, but there comes some prestige with it if you do and it might be something people aspire to, but don't feel outcast if they don't really care about.

You know, that, or apocalypse, I guess.

[Krawu]

What? I'm actually looking forward to that.
Not having to work because a machine can do it cheaper, faster and better would be totally great if it's the same for everyone. In my opinion, if it ever gets to that point, which I believe is at least 100 years if not more in the future, everyone is just gonna get a monthly allowance, possibly supplemented by whatever you earn through jobs machines can't do yet.
I honestly don't know how that kind of future would look in detail, but it won't be stopped from happening in any case unless humanity somehow destroys itself beforehand. It's a matter for future generations to figure out.

But here's another great video about this, old as it may be already.

[d00mGuArD]

I'd like to make a post about something greatly plaguing my mind.

We live in a world where automation / ai is advancing at a faster and faster pace we see it every day in our local supermarkets with self service tills, self service petrol pump's and its only set to get more prevalent. Now on the face of it this seems like such a great thing but we forget for every self service till that's 1 job no longer needed imagine a whole supermarket that's run by only 2-3 humans?

In the next 100 yrs we will face a world where the majority of the population will be redundant as all minimum wage jobs will be automated. We have seen through Blair's university for all initiative that intelligence isn't learnt but a combination of nature and nurture so we can't create the liberal solution of a nation of scientists. So when the majority are unemployed we know from history civil unrest follows.

How do we avoid society collapsing?

Countries that are heading towards great automation have low birth rates
One could say this is the "natural" fix of the problem. Reduction in population (without intervention - it just happens in most high tech countries) will lower the amount of unemployed

[Doctor Amadeus]

We stop acting like it's not going to happen and burying our heads, and work to adapt and work to reinforce what is important about the details of humanity and our experiences not the bullshit people cling to because of simple selfish nostalgia.

[Pull My Finger]

Unemployment is a goal. It's the promised land of humanity. Nobody should be doing these shit jobs people still have to do. Automate all that crap so that humans can live their lives. When there is no way to sidetrack and trap people in mundane and ultimately pointless "jobs", maybe then the society will take more substantial steps into educating itself, and enabling people to occupy themselves with more complex, meaninful, fulfilling and useful activities.

[Violent]

Luddites will always lose.

[Authary]

The majority of today's jobs are already basically welfare. Most people are doing meaningless tasks that are completely useless to society and getting paid for it. They get money (so they can live) and they're kept busy.

If automation changes anything, we'll just have to find other pseudo-jobs. Only the form will change.

[kamuimac]

I'd like to make a post about something greatly plaguing my mind.

We live in a world where automation / ai is advancing at a faster and faster pace we see it every day in our local supermarkets with self service tills, self service petrol pump's and its only set to get more prevalent. Now on the face of it this seems like such a great thing but we forget for every self service till that's 1 job no longer needed imagine a whole supermarket that's run by only 2-3 humans?

In the next 100 yrs we will face a world where the majority of the population will be redundant as all minimum wage jobs will be automated. We have seen through Blair's university for all initiative that intelligence isn't learnt but a combination of nature and nurture so we can't create the liberal solution of a nation of scientists. So when the majority are unemployed we know from history civil unrest follows.

How do we avoid society collapsing?

like always - one day few rich men will meet and decide that its time for WW3 in order to trim the human population

drones will be send to war and will die .

and peace will be restored

[Deleted]

What? I'm actually looking forward to that.
Not having to work because a machine can do it cheaper, faster and better would be totally great if it's the same for everyone. In my opinion, if it ever gets to that point, which I believe is at least 100 years if not more in the future, everyone is just gonna get a monthly allowance, possibly supplemented by whatever you earn through jobs machines can't do yet.
I honestly don't know how that kind of future would look in detail, but it won't be stopped from happening in any case unless humanity somehow destroys itself beforehand. It's a matter for future generations to figure out.

But here's another great video about this, old as it may be already.

Thing is that depends on the society. There's a difference between not having to work and not having any work to do. If our civilisation stays as it is you will still need money but have less avenues to obtain it

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The majority of today's jobs are already basically welfare. Most people are doing meaningless tasks that are completely useless to society and getting paid for it. They get money (so they can live) and they're kept busy.

If automation changes anything, we'll just have to find other pseudo-jobs. Only the form will change.

Yes most people are doing meaningless tasks in an ever meaningless existence and the rates of depression and suicide are rising. We're the most advance we have ever been yet it seems to most unhappy. The UK just a few years ago had riots that were not for any reason except kids being bored. Imagine if it wasn't just teens?

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Luddites will always lose.

The lidites lost because they were the minority. If it's the majority redundant and rising up that's a different story yet to be told.

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Unemployment is a goal. It's the promised land of humanity. Nobody should be doing these shit jobs people still have to do. Automate all that crap so that humans can live their lives. When there is no way to sidetrack and trap people in mundane and ultimately pointless "jobs", maybe then the society will take more substantial steps into educating itself, and enabling people to occupy themselves with more complex, meaninful, fulfilling and useful activities.

History would say your job will be automated but society won't change to help you. You will still need money you just won't have a job to get it

[Deleted]

We stop acting like it's not going to happen and burying our heads, and work to adapt and work to reinforce what is important about the details of humanity and our experiences not the bullshit people cling to because of simple selfish nostalgia.

Yes that what I want to see. Good or bad we NEED to be having this conversation as a society befor it's to late. Either we legislate to protect jobs or we look at how we can evolve as a society toward a bright future but if we let it happen naturally then we will be exploited.

[Soeroah]

Universal basic income and a general shift toward creative/cultural jobs rather than menial/labour. Writing, music, making games, movies, art, etc.

[Deleted]

I mean in many office environments, you may get 3-4 hours of actual work in the 4-5 hours you are there. On several forms of retail where there is low turnover but a need for a physical presence, you can have someone complete a shift without having done even an hour of work. The former should be converted into part-time work, the latter should be automated.

The issue remains imo with management. Management still largely requires human presence, in most forms of companies management posts must still be covered by a single person (so no shifts and thus part-time employment), the stress is significant due to higher accountability. So a few people will have to keep working hard. Even if we educated our nations into nations of scientists, those experts would eventually work part-time while the managers would be forced to clock overtime time and again because trust and accountability are not easily shared.
And there you hit a wall when it comes to fair distribution of income; the person working 2-3 times more hours than you who is often directly accountable for mistakes and suffers far more stress will demand much higher payment. And thus the assymetry will remain.

And this is not taking into account the ownership of capital at all. Sure we can get to the point of massive automation and human employees largely not being needed but all that automation, all that capital will remains largely privately owned. And they are not going to give it up without a fight.

Where I work we have management software that does most of the job so they cut the number of managers. No ones immune to being automated.

The big issue is having such a big percentage of a population forced onto state welfare and having nothing to do.

As the saying goes the devil makes work for idle hands. History has shown people with nothing to do and nothing to lose tend to revolt

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Countries that are heading towards great automation have low birth rates
One could say this is the "natural" fix of the problem. Reduction in population (without intervention - it just happens in most high tech countries) will lower the amount of unemployed

Yes but the human race has an overall net growth in population in a globalised world with immigration we have to factor in the whole

[Deleted]

Which is why I think Lafargue's solution is ultimately the best. Every work that can be cut down to multiple shifts SHOULD be, then we have people working for 2-3 hours a day so they at least feel somewhat productive. And yes, you are right that ERP can cut down management a lot (though it's not as easy on all forms of management, I've been trying to obsolete myself for years now and while I am slowly getting there, it's not at all close) the problem remains that what works does have to be done cannot be easily split into shifts. And the same is true for several fields, experts of any kind working in R&D while they certainly work in collaborative environments still need to work long shifts to get their work done as soon as possible since R&D usually increases aggragate utility; that is at least unless we are talking about a future with AGI which could replace as entirely in R&D but I am not at all convinced this is a viable alternative (that doesn't get society destroyed).

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There is always the alternative of a future where the developed world stops accepting immigrants. I am not advocating it but it is certainly not improbable, however violent it might be.

Aye there a whole range of solutions some good some bad my main concern is we're not talking about it. We seem as a civilisation to be very side tracked with what are in the grand scheme petty issues when there's a 10 pound gorilla in the room looming over us