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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    I hope so too. Was hoping BfA would be a South Seas proper expansion. 10 years waiting for Azshara, and they place her on the side like a loot pinata.
    I just hope that her story will be more explored in the argus style and not the broken shore one... I so hope that they have learned at least one lesson for once when it comes to mid tier raids. As one of the oldest enemies we face on azeroth it certainly would have been nice to have a more dedicated plot for the naga than "look at the alliance and horde idiots, let's get one in while these morons fight among themselves"

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    I just hope that her story will be more explored in the argus style and not the broken shore one... I so hope that they have learned at least one lesson for once when it comes to mid tier raids. As one of the oldest enemies we face on azeroth it certainly would have been nice to have a more dedicated plot for the naga than "look at the alliance and horde idiots, let's get one in while these morons fight among themselves"
    I guess her story would be somewhat close to MoP treatment. Afterall, MoP somehow kickstarts the story progression of South Seas sans WoD. Unforeseen circumstances and discoveries. Also If the Nightwell or now aka Maelstrom was the origin of both the Sunwell and Teldrasil/Nordrasil it only means Azshara is already swimming in a pool of Azerite rich vortex.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2017-12-12 at 10:55 AM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Also If the Nightwell or now aka Maelstrom was the origin of both the Sunwell and Teldrasil/Nordrasil it only means Azshara is already swimming in a pool of Azerite rich vortex.
    Wow. You managed to mix up four completely unrelated things in a single sentence.

    The Nightwell in Suramar was created by focusing leylines through the Eye of Aman'thul, and has nothing to do with any of the others.

    The Maelstrom, formerly the Well of Eternity, is where Azshara is and has never been know as a source of Azerite, probably because the Titans sealed that wound.

    The (original) Sunwell and the pool below Nordrassil(but not the tree itself) were created by infusing a spring with water from the Well of Eternity.

    Nordrassil was created to safeguard the pool created by Illidan.

    Teldrassil was created by Fandral Staghelm for completely unrelated reasons and has literally nothing to do with any of the others.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by God King Rastakhan View Post
    Rastakhan has only ruled the zandalari empire for 200 years or so, and I believe he is exceptionally old for a troll. Remember, trolls do not share elven immortality or even their longevity. The blessing of the aspects is what made the elves immortal, the powers of the well of eternity, which is what changed them from trolls to elves to begin with, is what gave them such long lifespans even before that. No way Rastakhan had any kind of relationship with Azshara before she turned into a naga, he wouldn't be born for a couple of thousand years.

    Also I don't think Azshara was ever a troll. I can't be sure of course, but I believe the kaldorei empire was already pretty far along when she was crowned queen. It's likely she was born and raised as a noble elf, and nothing else.
    Appearance can be deceiving God King Rastakhan specially for a race which doesn't show the effect of aging unlike to those who are human. The story of WC3 pretty much focused on Night Elves and the Undead but more so on NE. Trolls were just part of the Horde unlike the NE which has their own faction and even a story dedicated to them. So the story of King Rastakhan is still an enigma besides the fact he had been the incumbent Zandalari leader. Also I'm quite intrigued why on earth the renegade factions of the Zandalari trolls wanted to reincarnate the past rulers of their civilization in Atal'dazar.


    Does it mean Zul is now part of the Twilight Hammer or a cult dedicated to the old gods? What was the reason for the insurrection aside from the backstory in MoP?
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2017-11-26 at 09:12 AM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Appearance can be deceiving God King Rastakhan specially for a race which doesn't show the effect of aging unlike to those who are human. The story of WC3 pretty much focused on Night Elves and the Undead but more so on NE. Trolls were just part of the Horde unlike the NE which has their own faction and even a story dedicated to them. So the story of King Rastakhan is still an enigma besides the fact he had been the incumbent Zandalari leader. Also I'm quite intrigued why on earth the renegade factions of the Zandalari trolls wanted to reincarnate the past rulers of their civilization in Atal'dazar.
    Was there supposed to be a point or are you intentionally raving aimlessly?
    Does it mean Zul is now part of the Twilight Hammer or a cult dedicated to the old gods? What was the reason for the insurrection aside from the backstory in MoP?
    No. The MoP backstory gives enough reason for his actions.

  6. #86
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    If Azshara was the first mutated troll then she should have also led the night elves from the very beginning. That's not the case, given how hers is described as an ascension to power and the turning point that led to the creation of the Highborne cast and a fully exploitative usage of the Well of Eternity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by God King Rastakhan View Post
    Rastakhan has only ruled the zandalari empire for 200 years or so, and I believe he is exceptionally old for a troll. Remember, trolls do not share elven immortality or even their longevity. The blessing of the aspects is what made the elves immortal, the powers of the well of eternity, which is what changed them from trolls to elves to begin with, is what gave them such long lifespans even before that. No way Rastakhan had any kind of relationship with Azshara before she turned into a naga, he wouldn't be born for a couple of thousand years.

    Also I don't think Azshara was ever a troll. I can't be sure of course, but I believe the kaldorei empire was already pretty far along when she was crowned queen. It's likely she was born and raised as a noble elf, and nothing else.
    Trolls live around 250 years. Quite a nice number,long enough to achieve some stuff, and short enough to not think of any big character background story for rp sake.
    I miss Mists of Pandaria

  8. #88
    Didn't we already get confirmation Tauren are related to Niuzao?

  9. #89
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    What ever is inside the Troll Titan related building which will be a tier 1 raid for BfA holds the answers. So far NDA is still upheld for all the quest and story related info which current is conducting Betas. I believe we will also discover the Taurehe origin slightly as now they distant cousin which is related to Anshe, Emerald Nightmare/Realm the remaining titan construct within Mauradon.

    The tauren are the descendants of a bovine race known as the yaungol. Several millennia before the First War, the yaungol roamed central Kalimdor and lived in peace with the demigod Cenarius, but were eventually driven south due to not wanting to share hunting grounds with the trolls.
    And now Bfa might start with the expansion in a heavy troll lore.

    If you notice all Horde allied races are oldschool or antiquated.What I mean is Nightborn is closer to the history of Queen Azshara and the Well of Eternity. Trolls with Zandalari Trolls and Tauren with Highmountain as opposed with the "New" faction such as Lightforged = evolved Manaari/Draenei Void Elves=High Elves.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2017-12-09 at 04:42 PM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Basically Nightborne existed back then and I tell you why. They are part of the lower class of Kaldorei heirarchy probably commoners. When Suramar got assunder apart from Ancient Kalimdor tored in between the Great Seas and Zin'Ashari, they have been the highest of the caste system.

    Elven Caste:
    -Zin'asharian Elves, the elitist or Highborne and now the Nagas
    - Nightborne Elves, the Shal'dorei, remainder of the Ancient Kaldorei civilization trapped in Suramar, elitist above Nightfallen
    - Sin'dorei, remainders of the Highborne who followed the exodus and founded Quel'thalas
    - Quel'dorei, Highborne loyal to the Grand Alliance

    It took a millenia also from rise to fall of the Kaldorei empire prior to War of the Ancients and the Great Sundering.

    Technically Malfurion Stormrage, Illidan Stormrage, Tyrande Whisperwind, Kael'thas Sunstrider by default are Highborne or Shal'dorei and can be interchangeable with the distinction of Kael'thas Sunstrider being a Queldorei Highborne Blood Elf.
    This is completely baseless nonsense. Nothing you said is true, and that's really impressive. I think the only true fact here is the bit about the Kal'dorei Empire, but frankly even that's in question just due to the proximity to all this other BS.

    - Zin'asharian: Don't actually exist.
    - Nightborne: Mutated Kal'dorei. Culturally resemble pre-Druidic Kal'dorei. Physically they are completely distinct.
    - Sin'dorei: Quel'dorei that remained loyal to Silvermoon after the Third War.
    - Quel'dorei: Kal'dorei Highborne that later mutated into a different species called High Elves. Originally the term used to refer to a caste of Night Elves, but no one uses it for that anymore.

    "Kael'thas Sunstrider by default are Highborne or Shal'dorei and can be interchangeable with the distinction of Kael'thas Sunstrider being a Queldorei Highborne Blood Elf."

    I don't even know what the hell this is even trying to say. Kael'thas is a Blood Elf. He is not a Highborne. He renounced being a High Elf/Quel'dorei.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2017-12-09 at 06:25 PM.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    This is completely baseless nonsense. Nothing you said is true, and that's really impressive. I think the only true fact here is the bit about the Kal'dorei Empire, but frankly even that's in question just due to the proximity to all this other BS.

    - Zin'asharian: Don't actually exist.
    They do. They are the Naz'jatari to be exact but they are the same Kaldorei who are trapped along with Queen Azshara in Zin'Ashari thus me coining then Zin'Asharian as to Zandalarian Trolls of Zandalar.

    "Kael'thas Sunstrider by default are Highborne or Shal'dorei and can be interchangeable with the distinction of Kael'thas Sunstrider being a Queldorei Highborne Blood Elf."

    I don't even know what the hell this is even trying to say. Kael'thas is a Blood Elf. He is not a Highborne. He renounced being a High Elf/Quel'dorei.
    I did not deny the fact that he became a Blood Elf. And no one can deny the fact he was a Highborne. His descendants are Quel'thalas Highbornes much like Alleria,pre-void influenced, and Vareesa are. We got nothing to discuss about him denouncing his heritage as Quel'dorei and giving tribute to the remaining Highborne massacred during 3rd war by Arthas and the scourge as Blood Elves or Sin'dorei.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God King Rastakhan View Post
    According to wowpedia, nothing's set in stone. The original "tauren" was the yaungol, but everything about them originating from a wild god, Niuzao or otherwise, is just speculation.
    Another perspective about the Tauren Genesis or origin is that they are descendants of the demi god Malorn. We will definitely learn more of it now that the closer kin of Highmountains are becoming playable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    If Azshara was the first mutated troll then she should have also led the night elves from the very beginning. That's not the case, given how hers is described as an ascension to power and the turning point that led to the creation of the Highborne cast and a fully exploitative usage of the Well of Eternity.
    You said it yourself her reign was an ascension to power which somehow confirms how the outcasted and lowly dark trolls to the arcane infused Kaldorei by the Well of Eternity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    I think the blood of immortality or at what ever cause it came from stems from them way back in time. Remember Trolls have a history of fighting Aqirs even before Night Elves fighting the First Demonic Invasion. Maybe the racial of Trolls which is Troll regeneration just got amplified when the Dark Trolls who lived close to the Well.

    We know Arcane energy and even Fel energy act so fast so the transformation could have been within just a millennium. We will find out as more BfA comes out and dataminers are allowed to spill the beans.

    It's kinda intriguing what kind of process or how long did it really took the Man'ari Draenei to become the demonic visage they are when they became part of the Legion.
    In addition to what I've said on the message I posted myself and quoted Orcs became green skinned with a sip from the blood of the Demon Mannoroth instantaneously. Illidan became ever first demon hunter with an eventful exchanges from Sargeras himself bestowing him the demon-seeing eyes in a matter of seconds. Gilneans became worgen from one bite. What could be that single catalyst of event that eventually or spontaneously turned Dark Trolls to Nigh Elves, would that one instance cause them to evolve within a blink of an eye or for several millennia?
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2017-12-11 at 07:59 AM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    They have something common and that is being a Troll. Of all the Troll subrace or culture the two are closely related. Darkspear trolls are Island Trolls. They can't be closer to the Drakarris because of their morphology as well as the climate they are more adapted to. Same as the Farakis or Sand/Desert Trolls. You are somewhat incorrect when you say that Darkspear Trolls are closer to Gurubashi but rather they are closer to Amani since Dark Trolls are also known as Dark Forest trolls. Who needs to study better now and have to research harder?

    The Darkspear are a jungle troll tribe that migrated away from STV when they were pushed out by more powerful tribes. The Farraki tribe are also descendants of the Gurubashi Empire that found themselves stranded in a desert after the Sundering.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    This is completely baseless nonsense. Nothing you said is true, and that's really impressive. I think the only true fact here is the bit about the Kal'dorei Empire, but frankly even that's in question just due to the proximity to all this other BS.

    - Zin'asharian: Don't actually exist.
    - Nightborne: Mutated Kal'dorei. Culturally resemble pre-Druidic Kal'dorei. Physically they are completely distinct.
    - Sin'dorei: Quel'dorei that remained loyal to Silvermoon after the Third War.
    - Quel'dorei: Kal'dorei Highborne that later mutated into a different species called High Elves. Originally the term used to refer to a caste of Night Elves, but no one uses it for that anymore.

    "Kael'thas Sunstrider by default are Highborne or Shal'dorei and can be interchangeable with the distinction of Kael'thas Sunstrider being a Queldorei Highborne Blood Elf."

    I don't even know what the hell this is even trying to say. Kael'thas is a Blood Elf. He is not a Highborne. He renounced being a High Elf/Quel'dorei.
    This thread is filled with a lot of headcanon from the OP, no matter how much people try to correct them with facts from every source available.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
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  14. #94
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    God this post gave me a headache, what are you even talking about? We've known nelves are trolls+nightwell for ages.

  15. #95
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    OP you got nothing but headcanon in this thread. Nothing you say is true and all based on your own assumptions without looking into the facts at all, you stupid rat.

  16. #96
    1. OP, stop your headcanon.

    And, 2. ToT would like to have a word with you, when it comes to "MUTATED TROLLS"!

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odelius View Post
    OP you got nothing but headcanon in this thread. Nothing you say is true and all based on your own assumptions without looking into the facts at all, you stupid rat.
    I did look at every possible side and angle and thanks to you this lab rat just underwent rigorous thought experiments and you sir are my feces and urine

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Was there supposed to be a point or are you intentionally raving aimlessly?


    No. The MoP backstory gives enough reason for his actions.
    If we will consider your premise as a fact then Illidan would still be the Betrayer we used to know back in BC. That reason was sufficient and no reason for Legion expansion and all the behind the scene and motive and narratives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vankelmir View Post
    God this post gave me a headache, what are you even talking about? We've known nelves are trolls+nightwell for ages.
    I suggest you stay away from such complicated topic which you might not be able to grasp not unless you invest your time researching on each and every related details about NE in general.


    You might also get dizzy that the Void elves or Ren'dorei are just going back to their roots cosmetically as basically they are Kal'dorei by default or Children of the Stars and of the Night.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Thus the OP

    - - - Updated - - -



    The time difference or gap stating how the Night Elves or Nightborne/Zin'Asharian's Rise to Power wasn't exactly stated but a detail that I've founded in wowwiki states that they ascended to power as soon as the different tribes of Zandalar settled at different new continent of Azeroth, post Great Sundering as well as preventing the dominion of the different Aqirs: Nerubians vs. Drakari in Northrend, Qiraji vs. Faraki in Southern Kalimdor, no idea which troll handled the Mantids.

    Aqir vs. Troll Empire of Zul in Old Kalimdor

    correction it was stated and according to what I've read it was about a millenia when Kaldorei civilization rise above Zandalari.
    You do realize that the word "millenia" is plural? One millenium, several millenia. Therefore, the quote you are using means that, after the foundation of their empire, the Trolls ruled over Kalimdor for thousands of years, but it ended when the Night Elves rose as an empire of their own. We know that the Kal'dorei Empire was formed about a thousand years after the troll-aqir war. But all that tells us nothing about the time spent between the discovery of the Well of Eternity by a tribe of Dark Trolls and the rise of the Kaldorei Empire. For all we know, the Dark Trolls may have discovered the Well even before the formation of the Zandalari Empire.
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    You do realize that the word "millenia" is plural? One millenium, several millenia. Therefore, the quote you are using means that, after the foundation of their empire, the Trolls ruled over Kalimdor for thousands of years, but it ended when the Night Elves rose as an empire of their own. We know that the Kal'dorei Empire was formed about a thousand years after the troll-aqir war. But all that tells us nothing about the time spent between the discovery of the Well of Eternity by a tribe of Dark Trolls and the rise of the Kaldorei Empire. For all we know, the Dark Trolls may have discovered the Well even before the formation of the Zandalari Empire.
    That's one more undiscovered history hidden in the dark. How did the Dark Trolls found where the Well of Eternity is, the 1st wound of Azeroth brought by the Pantheon Amanthul himself when he ripped an old god from Azeroth's surface thus Well of Eternity is a swimming fresh wound of Azerite. Sargeras using Teshelac to pierce thru Azeroth's surface got her life blood crystalizing into Azerite as she quickly recovers and heal herself.

    It says about a millennia. A millennium is 1k years. 2 millennium is considered a millennia so it must be between 1k years to about 2k yr.

    One thing for sure players are confused about. They treat each expac and storyline as entirely progressive or sequential when in reality Legion is supposed to be a continuation of BC's storyline i.e. after a millenium of sending the chosen Illidari to raid Mardum when the heroes of Azeroth tried to capture and kill Illidan in his fortress of Black Temple or the old Karabor Temple. WoD's timeline is very retrogressive and retrogate in nature as if it was an event of back to the past and a back to the future expac.

    and as soon as Cata happened the protective mist of Pandaria settled down and most probably Sumarar's Arcane dome started to dissipate as well.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2017-12-14 at 01:11 AM.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    That's one more undiscovered history hidden in the dark. How did the Dark Trolls found where the Well of Eternity is, the 1st wound of Azeroth brought by the Pantheon Amanthul himself when he ripped an old god from Azeroth's surface thus Well of Eternity is a swimming fresh wound of Azerite. Sargeras using Teshelac to pierce thru Azeroth's surface got her life blood crystalizing into Azerite as she quickly recovers and heal herself.

    It says about a millennia. A millennium is 1k years. 2 millennium is considered a millennia so it must be between 1k years to about 2k yr.

    One thing for sure players are confused about. They treat each expac and storyline as entirely progressive or sequential when in reality Legion is supposed to be a continuation of BC's storyline i.e. after a millenium of sending the chosen Illidari to raid Mardum when the heroes of Azeroth tried to capture and kill Illidan in his fortress of Black Temple or the old Karabor Temple.

    and as soon as Cata happened the protective mist of Pandaria settled down and most probably Sumarar's Arcane dome started to dissipate as well.
    First, there is no such thing as "a" millennia. A millennium is one thousand years. It is a Latin word, and its plural form is "millennia." When it says "In the millennia after", it means several thousands of years. Could be two, could five, could be even ten or more.

    Second, each expansion is sequential. WotLK did happen after TBC, Cata after WotLK, etc. Yes, Legion is a continuation of Illidan's story and TBC, but it happened some years after. And no, Legion is not a millennium (1000 years after TBC) and Illidan did not send his Illidari to Mardum for 1000 years.

    The Well of Eternity was not filled with azerite.

    The shield protecting Suramar was disrupted when Gul'dan (AU) destroyed the seals in the Tomb of Sargeras. Therefore, it happened after WoD and just before Legion.
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