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  1. #381
    Additionally, some bosses just seem really out of place, or at least the facts that are put next to them. Bosses like Hydross and Void Reaver had a long gap because they were apart of an entire different tier while simultaneously being opened with T4,
    I'm not sure what you mean. 'Tier' isn't a meaningful distinction in this case. They were released at the same time, tuned similarly and Void Reaver/Hydross were the clear next step. As soon as you killed Gruul/Magtheridon you were attuned and you could go do them.

  2. #382
    It seems increasingly unlikely anything in Antorus is going to last very long.

  3. #383
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pipboyedshadowmourne View Post
    bugged bosses , not so hadrcore raiding , less skill in players , world 1st races werent a job ........ after 8 years top guilds are pro ,have more resources and can raid 16+ hours per day till boss is down
    old bosses mechanics are a joke comparing them to new bosses


    ps:if this tier opened all bosses 1st day we wouldnt have seen so fast last boss hc kills, players are geare to the teeth right now
    Difficuly wasnt in mechanics it was getting into the raid. Gear, attuements, consumables, res gear etc... And thats how it should be becouse you know RPG game? Fact we can just jump into raid fully epic geared on day one is pathetic. Pretty sure one of the reasons why current raid is joke is becouse of titanforging. Raid is outgeared befor it is even released.

  4. #384
    Two days for Argus the Unmaker. Poor guy, no one holds out much hope for him.

    One thing I wonder looking at the dungeon journal, what purpose does phase 2 serve? There's almost nothing going on.

  5. #385
    Deleted
    The most accurate rankings for the past 3 expansions have been the pull counts, before that it was days, because even if they raided, they didn't really get that many pulls in per night as the trash took quite long to clear, and not to mention the class buff mechanics took a lot of preparation as well. Right now top guilds can average around 60 pulls per day, classic/tbc guilds barely got to 30 pulls per night.

    If you'd order the last 5 main tiers by by amount of pulls :

    Mythic Kil'Jaeden - 654 pulls (Method)
    Mythic Archimonde - 472 pulls (Method)
    Mythic Avatar of Sargeras - 453 pulls (Method)
    Mythic Blackhand - 325 pulls (Method)
    25H Garrosh - 272 pulls (Method)
    Mythic Gul'dan - 248 pulls (Exorsus)
    Mythic Helya - 246 pulls (Method)
    25H Siegecrafter - 229 pulls (Method)
    25H Klaxxi - 222 pulls (Method)

    You can definitely see the amount of effort required per tier, going slightly up every tier. Safe to say (and real raiders already now this) that bosses are getting harder every tier. You can, I guess, exclude KJ because his pre nerf state was ridiculous, even for a guild like method.

    - I think Argus will die this weekend with around the same pulls as Blackhand.
    Last edited by mmoc925aeb179c; 2017-12-08 at 01:15 PM.

  6. #386
    Deleted
    Interesting list. You can see how much game has changed.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by EUPLEB View Post
    The most accurate rankings for the past 3 expansions have been the pull counts, before that it was days, because even if they raided, they didn't really get that many pulls in per night as the trash took quite long to clear, and not to mention the class buff mechanics took a lot of preparation as well. Right now top guilds can average around 60 pulls per day, classic/tbc guilds barely got to 30 pulls per night.

    If you'd order the last 5 main tiers by by amount of pulls :

    Mythic Kil'Jaeden - 654 pulls (Method)
    Mythic Archimonde - 472 pulls (Method)
    Mythic Avatar of Sargeras - 453 pulls (Method)
    Mythic Blackhand - 325 pulls (Method)
    25H Garrosh - 272 pulls (Method)
    Mythic Gul'dan - 248 pulls (Exorsus)
    Mythic Helya - 246 pulls (Method)
    25H Siegecrafter - 229 pulls (Method)
    25H Klaxxi - 222 pulls (Method)

    You can definitely see the amount of effort required per tier, going slightly up every tier. Safe to say (and real raiders already now this) that bosses are getting harder every tier. You can, I guess, exclude KJ because his pre nerf state was ridiculous, even for a guild like method.

    - I think Argus will die this weekend with around the same pulls as Blackhand.
    There are problems with pulls too. Blackhand and Avatar pulls are very short compared to Gul'dan or Garrosh pulls.

    And yeah you can basically throw out the first 200 mythic Kil'jaeden pulls because the first intermission was impossible for a few days. I believe Archimonde's phase 1 was also impossible for a few hours until they changed the bursts.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2017-12-08 at 09:28 PM.

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    There are problems with pulls too. Blackhand and Avatar pulls are very short compared to Gul'dan or Garrosh pulls.

    And yeah you can basically throw out the first 200 mythic Kil'jaeden pulls because the first intermission was impossible for a few days. I believe Archimonde's phase 1 was also impossible for a few hours until they changed the bursts.
    And KJ pulls, even if you exclude initial ones, were probably the longest on the average. The "hard part" didn't come until ~7-8 minutes, then they had intermission which wasn't trivialized by mass grip yet and the entire phase 3 with even more obelisks.

    He still "wins" and not in a good way.

  9. #389
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUPLEB View Post
    The most accurate rankings for the past 3 expansions have been the pull counts,
    Absolutely not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  10. #390
    Why is a boss that remains unkilled the longest something to strive for? Most of the time it's because that boss is buggy and overtuned.

    Do you want buggy and overtuned bosses?
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    When we looked at their ruins, we marked the danger of that height.
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  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    Why is a boss that remains unkilled the longest something to strive for? Most of the time it's because that boss is buggy and overtuned.

    Do you want buggy and overtuned bosses?
    They do, mostly because it doesn't affect them directly. Assuming they even get to fight the boss when its' current content, it will already be nerfed and fixed. They'll never experience the difficulty they so desperately ask for, so why do they even want it?

    Is it all so they can... well, I dunno, brag that they're playing the hardest MMO ever? Laugh at the best players in the world wiping for a month and probably deciding to quit? Claim that there's *finally* a boss that took longer to die than C'thun, which is somehow a good thing? ... Come to think of it, I did recall some armchair raiders claiming that Exorsus were just whiny babies when they complained about KJ's tuning - even though Blizzard hugely nerfed him right after their kill. It's a weird mixture of living vicariously through top raiders, hating them, being jealous, trolling and all other crap at the same time.

  12. #392
    Where's the elevator boss. Its never been killed!

  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    Absolutely not.
    Absolutely yes.

  14. #394
    Argus the Unmaker hits four days.

    Now tying bosses such as M'uru, Anub'arak, Thaddius and the Sha of Fear.

    To be honest I wasn't expecting him to after the rest of the raid.

  15. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Argus the Unmaker hits four days.

    Now tying bosses such as M'uru, Anub'arak, Thaddius and the Sha of Fear.

    To be honest I wasn't expecting him to after the rest of the raid.
    I did. TBH I assumed the last couple bosses would be tuned to having several raid wide trinket buffs to kill. Maybe Argus is tune to that, why there is no kill yet? Though, I have no idea what the best % of is of any guild has done so far on him.


    A note on the TBC bosses, yeah a lot of them were overtuned or broken and got reworked. Al'ar, Solarian were reworked. Vashj and Kael were bugged and not killable for a while. Mother Shaz was fixed as well when Nihilum killed them without resist gear to basically require resist gear. I think after this there was a lot more raid/ptr testing in later xpacs besides ultra secret bosses that were hotfixed as guild were world firsting them.
    Nothing and Everything

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Argus the Unmaker hits four days.

    Now tying bosses such as M'uru, Anub'arak, Thaddius and the Sha of Fear.

    To be honest I wasn't expecting him to after the rest of the raid.
    Isn't the first time. See Dragonsoul (okay, Spine is not the final boss) or Firelands.

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    To be honest I wasn't expecting him to after the rest of the raid.
    No shit ? You not having a single clue about PVE ?

    Color me shocked.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    No shit ? You not having a single clue about PVE ?

    Color me shocked.
    Do you feel better after spouting vitriol at random people on the internet?

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Do you feel better after spouting vitriol at random people on the internet?
    Stating a fact is now vitriol ?

    Oversensitivity ? But okay, let's pretend you know what PVE is.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  20. #400
    Argus hits six days. Tying bosses such as Lei Shen, Garrosh Hellscream and Reliquary of Lost Souls.

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