So Horde lost Turalyon just because Alleria's possessed by the Void?

[Shakou]

will it be known? nope Turalyon is supposed to see the golden lion and just be all "cool, i'm home guys!" and never go back to lordaeron.

I am going to bookmark this and bring it up when BFA launches. I would bet a lot of money that none of the backstory here will ever come to light for Turalyon in-game, shame really because this would be the best time to do that.

[Surfd]

Nearly all the Horde races were enemies at some point. Orcs attacked blood elves in WC2. Trolls hate everyone, especially elves. Blood elves hate trolls. Forsaken were everyone's enemies when they were Scourge, especially blood elves who they nearly exterminated. That's kind of the premise of the Horde. Misfit underdog races banding together for mutual benefit.

Yet they managed to get past this. Blood elves and Forsaken working closely together in Tranquillien. Halduron and Vol'jin conversing respectfully while planning against the Amani. Orcs and trolls living together in Durotar.

Except that you are heavily glossing over the whole issue that the horde is the horde because the members are not "typical" examples of their races:
Blood elves did not exist in WC2. There were only High Elves, who were nominally/sort of "alliance". They only became blood elves after WC3, when the scourge decimated them and then Garithos tried to throw them under the bus.
The high elves hated the Forest Trolls (Amani clan specifically).
The Darkspear Trolls (the current Horde Troll member clan) and the Blood Elves (High Elves AFTER the events of WC3) have no reason to hate eachother.
The Forsaken /= the Scourge, and comparing the two, or attributing the actions of one to the other is silly. The SCOURGE, under ARTHAS devastated Quelthelas. The Forsaken, to the best of my recollection, never did anything to them other than raid a few Elven outposts in the north of EPL during WoW Vanilla questlines.
Also, No reason why orcs and trolls living together should be in any way strange. Thralls Orcs and the Darkspear Trolls have always had a very good relationship.

As for the Orcs, do we really have a proper accounting of how many Orc Clans actually survived WC3, and which are operating under the banner of Thrall's Horde at the start of WoW (we know Warsong and Frostwolf for sure, but what others)? Durotar was supposed to be the new Orcish homeland, but how many clans call it home? Are all Orcish PCs assumed to belong to a clan? or are they sort of clanless, owing their allegiance to the "Horde" first?

[Highwhale]

Horde Lost Turalyon? Khm... sounds as stupid as Alliance lost Doomhammer.

[Oneirophobia]

I've been saying this for years but dissolve the factions. Things would be so much more interesting. Make everyone hate everyone.

You could have:

-Previously Horde and previously Alliance races group together to reduce queue times
-Allow players to choose which cities (not races) they're friendly with via rep, some races rep decrease when you increase others like Booty Bay and Bloodsails
-Gank other races you used to be allied with in pvp because lets face it, who doesn't want to jam an undead back in the grave or punt a gnome
-Interesting battleground squabbles between races who previously were forced to get along, like tauren and forsaken
-Potentially the ability to join subfactions based on your class or race, IE a druid-shaman superfaction who's end goal is a restored and balanced Azeroth
-A technological utopia superfaction in which the goblins, gnomes and draenei come together and blast all the other dumb races to pieces
-A power-hungry superfaction composed of demon hunters, warlocks and death knights who want to subjugate the left over demons and decrease Bolvar's army size by enslaving his scourge
-Take all the orcs, humans and undead and stick them in AU Draenor and blow up the portal so the rest of us don't have to deal with endless bickering and BS

- - - Updated - - -

And that's poor form for the plot that likely won't be addressed at all. When you look at it... the old alliance was basically destroyed in the transition between RTS to MMO and we just get left with Stormwind and the Southern nations with anything else getting turned into lawless factions no one cares about or Forsaken. Maybe they'll touch on it with Kul Tiras coming back into the fold.

tldr: his homeland = gone

his old allies = dead/gone

the new seat of power... inadvertantly responsible for the above.

will it be known? nope Turalyon is supposed to see the golden lion and just be all "cool, i'm home guys!" and never go back to lordaeron.

His old allies, the important ones, were Khadgar, Kurdran, Alleria and Danath. All of them are alive and all of them are Alliance, so I suppose he's going where his friends are.


Turalyon's allegiance makes total sense, it's Alleria who is a little weird. She doesn't even seem to attempt to understand why 99% of her race is completely against the Alliance. She shows up at the Sunwell and the first thing she tries to do is recruit the belves back into the Alliance, instead of trying to understand why they're not in the Alliance to begin with.

"Hello fellow elves, it's great to be back in Quel'thalas. My new boy-king whom I've just met and nobody really knows if hes going to be a good king or not were wondering if you want to join the Alliance. No? Okay see you on the field of battle in which I'll be killing you with my void powers. Cheers!"
wat

[cparle87]

Except that you are heavily glossing over the whole issue that the horde is the horde because the members are not "typical" examples of their races:
Blood elves did not exist in WC2. There were only High Elves, who were nominally/sort of "alliance". They only became blood elves after WC3, when the scourge decimated them and then Garithos tried to throw them under the bus.
The high elves hated the Forest Trolls (Amani clan specifically).
The Darkspear Trolls (the current Horde Troll member clan) and the Blood Elves (High Elves AFTER the events of WC3) have no reason to hate eachother.
The Forsaken /= the Scourge, and comparing the two, or attributing the actions of one to the other is silly. The SCOURGE, under ARTHAS devastated Quelthelas. The Forsaken, to the best of my recollection, never did anything to them other than raid a few Elven outposts in the north of EPL during WoW Vanilla questlines.
Also, No reason why orcs and trolls living together should be in any way strange. Thralls Orcs and the Darkspear Trolls have always had a very good relationship.

As for the Orcs, do we really have a proper accounting of how many Orc Clans actually survived WC3, and which are operating under the banner of Thrall's Horde at the start of WoW (we know Warsong and Frostwolf for sure, but what others)? Durotar was supposed to be the new Orcish homeland, but how many clans call it home? Are all Orcish PCs assumed to belong to a clan? or are they sort of clanless, owing their allegiance to the "Horde" first?

Couple corrections there. True they were not blood elves in WC2 but they're the same group of people/population. Also Kael made the name change to blood elf after the decimation but before Garithos.

Trolls have an almost genetic dislike for all non-troll races. It said so in the pre-Cata cutscene when you made a darkspear that they "possessed a seething hatred for all other races, but one tribe, the darkspear, were forced to abandon this and ally with the horde to avoid annihilation."

As for the undead, if someone slaughtered your family and burned your homeland, and you ran into them years later and they said "Sorry bro, I was being MC'd" would you automatically trust them or want to work with them even if your leaders told you to? Similar situation with the orcs. There's still people blaming the orcs for things they did in WC1/2, and there's people who still don't like the Forsaken for what they did as Scourge.

Orcs and trolls have a good relationship now, but it was originally borne of desperation. If Sen'jin's tribe wasn't in mortal danger from the Sea Witch when Thrall arrived and saved their bacon they probably wouldn't be allies right now. It's also likely that some of the older members of Thrall's Horde at the time had reservations about allying with trolls again, remembering how Zul'jin up and abandoned them when the going got tough.

[Deleted]

Even the good orcs? That's not very paldinly of him. All that light and goodness....except for orcs. What a hater. He should join the Ebon Blade.

I have issue with that. There are no good Orcs. They are all invaders, or descendants of.
They have invaded and brought war to another world after they fecked up their own. Orcs aren't good and if they were they would try and restore draenor or find an un-inhabited world to live in.

[Allenseiei]

Wait till he hears the horde nuked theramore. Or has he?

[mickybrighteyes]

His old allies, the important ones, were Khadgar, Kurdran, Alleria and Danath. All of them are alive and all of them are Alliance, so I suppose he's going where his friends are.

lol aside... dadgar has been neutral since we found him in outland.

that list hasn't been on azeroth canonically since their appearances in wc2.

also, aside from wildhammer their factions are no longer part of the alliance. Trollbane = Stromgarde (which is undead now if the DK class story is the current). Alleria = Silvermoon/Quel'thalas (well void elves now). Khadgar has shifted Dalaran to a stated neutral position not tied to the Alliance of Stormwind/Ironforge/Teldrassil/etc. Wildhammer is the only group that still exists and is part of the alliance going into the events of the end of Legion.

[Oneirophobia]

that list hasn't been on azeroth canonically since their appearances in wc2.

Talk about grasping at straws, that doesn't make them any less Alliance.

also, aside from wildhammer their factions are no longer part of the alliance. Trollbane = Stromgarde (which is undead now if the DK class story is the current).

By that logic the worgen aren't alliance either because Gilneas is still under control of the Forsaken. Danath's original city doesn't make him any less of a human of the Alliance, you're being silly if you think he'd somehow be allied with anyone else.

Alleria = Silvermoon/Quel'thalas (well void elves now).

She is literally in the alliance embassy, she is alliance. She goes to Silvermoon to recruit the belves back into the Alliance in BfA. If that isn't Alliance, I don't know what is.

Khadgar has shifted Dalaran to a stated neutral position not tied to the Alliance of Stormwind/Ironforge/Teldrassil/etc. Wildhammer is the only group that still exists and is part of the alliance going into the events of the end of Legion

Khadgar, yes, is the only mostly neutral character. He is willing to work with the Horde player characters but I would doubt he'd be welcome in any of the Horde cities.

So that is 3 of Turalyon's friends that are still very much Alliance, and he's going to go Horde for what reason..?

[Ravingmad]

Turalyon is my favorite WoW Hero. (Danath being 2nd). What the Sons of Lothar acomplished was so epic that whatever they do now doesnt matter. Their part is done.

But hey, nice troll.

[Zappidoo]

All I know is Wrathion is going to have a field day in BfA.

[mickybrighteyes]

By that logic the worgen aren't alliance either because Gilneas is still under control of the Forsaken. Danath's original city doesn't make him any less of a human of the Alliance, you're being silly if you think he'd somehow be allied with anyone else.

Gilneas wasn't... by the time the Worgen enters teh fold Gilneas was lost and they were refuges in Darnassus. Maybe you forget what happened when Genn basically told everyone else to fuck off and hid behind his wall.

She is literally in the alliance embassy, she is alliance. She goes to Silvermoon to recruit the belves back into the Alliance in BfA. If that isn't Alliance, I don't know what is.

She's another hero who never learned about the events of wc3. It'd be incredibly amusing to see her hear the full details of how elves got treated in the lordaeron scourge campaign

Khadgar, yes, is the only mostly neutral character. He is willing to work with the Horde player characters but I would doubt he'd be welcome in any of the Horde cities.

Don't know, not like we see atypical characters running around cities besides dalaran and a few goblin settlements anyways.

So that is 3 of Turalyon's friends that are still very much Alliance, and he's going to go Horde for what reason..?

I never said he should go horde. I only was trying to point out that it wasn't a hands down Alliance. His portrayal with dedication to the army of light seemed to indicate that he was beyond sides, add in that his nation is gone and that the powers that be are only vaguely reminiscent of the ones that existed prior to his thousand year departure (that was only like 20 or so years for anyone NOT traversing the void). I never mentioned anything about the horde getting turalyon.

edit:

also, still loving how they're most likely going to make Alleria completely ignorant of how Elves got treated under Garithos who (as far as we're going to know) was there under the authority of the alliance. Every sane elf would likely had that "the fuck you mean?!" look on their faces like "Do you no know they literally forced us into suicide missions to prevent human causalties and imprisoned us for failing to die ... and you living sister tried to massacre us in a neutral city?" But then they gave her some face and assumed that she wasn't really that ignorant (but she really is) and simply told her to fuck off.

[Alidfe]

It'd be incredibly amusing to see her hear the full details of how elves got treated in the lordaeron scourge campaign

The one where Quel'thalas abandoned their Lordaeron allies to shut themselves off from the rest of the world and then were driven to the brink of extinction under Sylvanas' incredibly dubious leadership?

Yeah that would definitely endear her to the Horde.

[mickybrighteyes]

The one where Quel'thalas abandoned their Lordaeron allies to shut themselves off from the rest of the world and then were driven to the brink of extinction under Sylvanas' incredibly dubious leadership?

Yeah that would definitely endear her to the Horde.

I'm just going to say CITATION PLEASE!

Maybe you have some things confused. Quel'thalas was rules by Sunstriders... Anasterion till he was felled by Arthas when he invaded (Sylvanas dead and banshee-fied at the time as he walked his happy ass to the sunwell) and the torch was passed to Kael'thas who was devoted to aiding the alliance in their campaign against the scourge in the region... you know.. till his forces were used in suicide missions to clear the way for human forces and imprisoned for somehow making it work with whatever he had available.

[Shakou]

I hope this thread never dies.

[Daevelian]

Everyone's upset over Turalyon hating on his horde "brothers" and here i am upset that Liadrin is a two timing hussy who happily betrays her fellow paladins, highlord included, because some undead skank yelled FOR THE WHORED.

....Actually, two timing hussy following "for the whored" makes sense. Carry on.

[Alidfe]

I'm just going to say CITATION PLEASE!

Go play Warcraft 3. Big chunk of the Undead campaign consists of Sylvanas mismanaging the elven army and getting repeatedly slapped down by Arthas until she's eventually cornered, killed and raised.

The rest of your post is correct, but Kael crawling back to the alliance for help happens afterwards.

[mickybrighteyes]

Go play Warcraft 3. Big chunk of the Undead campaign consists of Sylvanas mismanaging the elven army and getting repeatedly slapped down by Arthas until she's eventually cornered, killed and raised.

The rest of your post is correct, but Kael crawling back to the alliance for help happens afterwards.

WC3 says very little about the diplomatic standing of Quel'thalas beyond it being there and housing the sunwell. Arthas saying he remembers taking trips there and whatever.... you made it out that Sylvanas was running things in Quel'thalas and was in charge of sequestering the nation off from it's allies (which isn't actually part of the storyline in wc3 at all).

What we see in that scenario is Arthas leading his nigh unstoppable undead scourge straight through the forest, through the city, and defiling the sunwell. The Rangers could only do so much against the undead and were pushed back... you can call that mismanaging if you want, but the rest of Lordaeron fell before that power even the farstriders got their turn. That WAS the main focus of teh scourge at the time, not some off shoot... The Lich Kings main pieces all moving to a point.

[Ielenia]

edit:

also, still loving how they're most likely going to make Alleria completely ignorant of how Elves got treated under Garithos who (as far as we're going to know) was there under the authority of the alliance. Every sane elf would likely had that "the fuck you mean?!" look on their faces like "Do you no know they literally forced us into suicide missions to prevent human causalties and imprisoned us for failing to die ... and you living sister tried to massacre us in a neutral city?" But then they gave her some face and assumed that she wasn't really that ignorant (but she really is) and simply told her to fuck off.

So we judge an entire race by the actions of a single member of said race? Welp, better exterminate the Blood Elves because Kael'Thas as a bad mofo. Also, let's bring genocide to the orcs because Garrosh was mean to the Alliance and made a mess of Theramore. Don't forget to wipe out the Tauren as well because the Grimtotem aren't exactly the friendliest bunch. Draenei? Well, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde caused so much death and destruction, so off with the draenei's heads! Night Elves? Fandral Staghelm sided with the Firelord! Gnomes? Kill them all because Thermaplugg is evil! Dwarves? The Dark Iron Dwarves awakened Ragnaros, so they deserve death. Worgen? Before having their minds restored, they brought chaos and destruction! Skin them alive! Goblins? They care for nothing but profit and are willing to enslave their own race. They're better off wiped from the face of Azeroth. Forsaken? One of their common quotes is "death to the living". Need I say more?

In short: all races are evil, since every single race has at least one 'bad apple'. Going by your logic at least.

[mickybrighteyes]

So we judge an entire race by the actions of a single member of said race? Welp, better exterminate the Blood Elves because Kael'Thas as a bad mofo. Also, let's bring genocide to the orcs because Garrosh was mean to the Alliance and made a mess of Theramore. Don't forget to wipe out the Tauren as well because the Grimtotem aren't exactly the friendliest bunch. Draenei? Well, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde caused so much death and destruction, so off with the draenei's heads! Night Elves? Fandral Staghelm sided with the Firelord! Gnomes? Kill them all because Thermaplugg is evil! Dwarves? The Dark Iron Dwarves awakened Ragnaros, so they deserve death. Worgen? Before having their minds restored, they brought chaos and destruction! Skin them alive! Goblins? They care for nothing but profit and are willing to enslave their own race. They're better off wiped from the face of Azeroth. Forsaken? One of their common quotes is "death to the living". Need I say more?

In short: all races are evil, since every single race has at least one 'bad apple'. Going by your logic at least.

well... i don't recall any alliance forces standing up to prevent the incarceration and impending execution of blood elves for following orders.

So from the perspective of the sindorei... it wasn't just a single guy. It was the acting commander of the alliance and all his forces. Looking back it wasn't any alliance forces lending a helping hand at all. But go ahead and say it was just the actions of a single individual.