Titanforged:. Stay or Remove from game?

[Deleted]

Let's be honest, titanforging has just created more problems than it has done good. It creates massive ilvl inflation, and rewards people who don't deserve that kind of gear.

Super duper true. The fact any of your toons ever had any TF drop is a clear sign that the game is ridiculously unjust, after all the best you deserve are early vanilla greys.

[Miake]

Should titanforged gear stay in the game or be removed alltogether?

Let's be honest, titanforging has just created more problems than it has done good. It creates massive ilvl inflation, and rewards people who don't deserve that kind of gear.

So do you think it should be removed in the next expansion and go back to just warforged based on difficulty setting of the raid? (So if you raided Normal, gear could only proc up ten ilvls before you needed to raid a higher difficulty to get better gear)

Poll Added.

Who determines if someone deserves it or not, if they put equal effort into killing a boss no matter what difficulty then grats to them! if your upset that someone else has a better item than you, that's just pure jealousy and the problem with society these days, sounds like you enjoy getting those "participation" rewards from school.

[Ozzyorcborne]

Removed. Gone completely. Not modified. Want it dead and buried.

[Mlz]

Who determines if someone deserves it or not, if they put equal effort into killing a boss no matter what difficulty then grats to them! if your upset that someone else has a better item than you, that's just pure jealousy and the problem with society these days, sounds like you enjoy getting those "participation" rewards from school.

Nah, it's exactly the other way around. It's as if Little Timmy is dumb as fuck but still wants the same prizes as given to those who are high-achievers.

[Deleted]

Easy answer:

Stay if I get many TF items, if not, remove!

i got quite alot of wf/tf and i 100% want it removed.

[Hottage]

They need to wind back a whole bunch of the RNG systems they implemented in Warlords/Legion.

Titanforging, Legendaries and heroic raid drops from weekly quests (when someone hasn't even killed a boss on normal yet) being the worst offenders.

I got a Warforged Specter of Betrayal the first week heroic Tomb of Sargeras opened and didn't even kill him until two days before Antorus, the Burning Throne opened [and only killed him for AotC].

My none-casual raiding guild mates were a little salty.

[Zeidia]

I find people are too worried about others getting better TF than them, i mean, ofc it's a handicap for people who don't get a lot of TF but it's one of the reasons why i didn't main swapped this exansion that much than the others since it's a never ending of gear farming.

In the old way was just like: farm your BiS gear and forget until next raid tier. That killed a lot of my alters/possible mains since when i was done was like what now?

P.S: and unsubbing it's never an option.

[alexchaos]

I find people are too worried about others getting better TF than them, i mean, ofc it's a handicap for people who don't get a lot of TF but it's one of the reasons why i didn't main swapped this exansion that much than the others since it's a never ending of gear farming.

In the old way was just like: farm your BiS gear and forget until next raid tier. That killed a lot of my alters/possible mains since when i was done was like what now?

P.S: and unsubbing it's never an option.

Then you get bad luck the whole tier and never get more than warforged and feel like shit because you're behind everyone in your raid roster. (Hasn't happened to me but I'm pretty sure it happened to someone somwhere).

Also there's a difference between making LFR loot possible to titanforge better than Mythic gear and making gear having a poissibility of a +5/10 ilvl upgrade to keep you busy the whole tier because we all know that it is unlikely that you will get a +10 ilvl upgrade on all your BiS gear.

At the moment items can sometime gain 70+ilvls with a titanforge. How is that even a thing? The idea itself isn't bad but they over exaggerated with how high it can titanforge.

[deadman1]

Remove, not modify, 100% gone, wf as well, and the new socket system. Go back to the old socket system.

[Jaylock]

Remove, not modify, 100% gone, wf as well, and the new socket system. Go back to the old socket system.

The poll option Remove (or modify) suites this completely. The point was that people either want to completely remove the system (which I am in the camp of) or modify it some way, vs people who want it to stay as is. I didn't break Remove (or modify) into two options because it would skew the results and make the remove and modify options look lower than they really are.

- - - Updated - - -

Who determines if someone deserves it or not, if they put equal effort into killing a boss no matter what difficulty then grats to them! if your upset that someone else has a better item than you, that's just pure jealousy and the problem with society these days, sounds like you enjoy getting those "participation" rewards from school.

You don't deserve loot on the level of a mythic raider for killing loot pinatas. Plain and simple.

[HuxNeva]

Let's say your proc chance for forging is 30%.
To get a +70, you need 14 procs in a row.
So chances of getting one would be 0,00000004782969/1
This is why you have all 'heard of a guy' that got a max mythic from LFR.
This is also why analysis of the armory has a very nice correlation between effort and ilvl

[Hotsforyou]

Remove absolutely. It should have never been added in the first place.

[deadman1]

The poll option Remove (or modify) suites this completely. The point was that people either want to completely remove the system (which I am in the camp of) or modify it some way, vs people who want it to stay as is. I didn't break Remove (or modify) into two options because it would skew the results and make the remove and modify options look lower than they really are.

I know, I was just clarifying my position, and adding to it.

[digichi]

A problem i noticed with titanforging is how it affects raid psychology a bit.

Before, you just got your BiS gear and could screw about til next raid tier. Now you can casually outgear normal/heroic of the next tier with a yawn now. Screws with the steady progression feel.

[Logwyn]

I think the RNG to it should go. I think Blizzard misses the boat on adding a crafting aspect to it. Gather X materials then up grade the gear with the right crafting.... but thats just me.

[Jaylock]

It's staying, as the lead game designer has gone on record to say.

No point in futile discussion. Just as a sidenote, who are you to say someone doesn't "deserve" gear? They pay their subscription just like you. Do you fancy yourself more deserving because you raid with an organized group? Is that what you tell yourself to sit comfortably up on that pedestal?

Thats like saying "i breathe the same air as the millionaire CEO, so I deserve the same pay as him."

No, sorry thats not how the world works. You just don't get to have similar or equal gear by doing something that is significantly easier than the highest difficulty content.

And the dev team said they like the system but that they will be making changes to it, which i can get on board with. As long as those changes make it to where there are TF caps based on the difficulty of the content you are doing, then fine.

[Risale]

I voted remove and am now on the same side as jaylock /shudder, going to wash my hands now as i feel very dirty all of a sudden, might even throw up.

[Jujudrood]

I'd say it can only stay if it remains in a similar way to old warforged
As in an item can get +5 or even +10,but not more than that

one of the big issues with titanforged is that it has no cap except for the maximum ilvl possible

This is how it needs to work , but like MoP's Valor upgrades.
Items used to be 0/2, then you would spend maybe 250 valor to upgrade it each step? Don't recall the number, but that's irrelevant.
Items should be base 0/2, then you spend <insert currency here> to upgrade them to Warforged, which is 1/2 and adds 5 ilvl, then upgrade a second time (at maybe an increased cost) to Titanforged, which is 2/2 and 10 ilvl over base, so 5 each step.
Then item drops can have a low proc chance to roll WF/TF, which means they start at 1/2 or 2/2.

This would allow players to control the ilvl of items as well as allow the devs to properly build and balance things around them because it prevents this silly nonsense of TF proccing like 25-35 ilvl boosts or whatever it does now.
It also will help solve issues of "well, I have the normal version of X, but Y TF'd, so it's ever so slightly better, even though it's lower ilvl..." because now all items can upgrade through the currency and have the same "max ilvl", which is +10 over base.
This doesn't mean lower ilvl stuff still won't be better, but it removes the randomness and allows you to target gear a little better instead of just running the same thing and praying to RNGesus that you get a proc.

[Lime]

Honestly I view the whole titanforging bitching as selfish thing, like people can't stand seeing others getting awesome piece of gear or two.

That's not the entire reason.

The reason is that it's an unrealistic progression path that actually gives people even less of a reason to actually do progression content if they do manage to luck out. Look at the state we're in right now, a number of people are avoiding Mythic altogether because they know they can simply run M+ and Heroic Raids to get Mythic quality loot fairly easily.

Another issue with it is that it trivializes both Normal and Heroic raid progression. EN was probably the shining example of this. It was such a joke because of how geared everyone was from M+ and WQ gear. And that was a glimpse of raiding without tier sets, which is what we'll be seeing in BfA. And that's on the topic of current content at the time, let's not even look at how bad power creep is for previous raids in this expansion.

The other part is because of what you said, if someone could just luck out and get the gear, it does devalue it quite a bit. The default for people to assume is, "There's no way a noob running Heroic dungeons is ever going to be as geared as a Mythic Raider", which is likely true. However, that's an extreme. That Heroic Dungeon runner could very easily outgear someone working on Normal Progression, which for some particularly new inexperienced players, is an aspect of progression they'd otherwise could be proud of. Everyone starts somewhere, just now, it seems to randomly be between LFR and Mythic progression depending on your luck.

[Jaylock]

That's not the entire reason.

The reason is that it's an unrealistic progression path that actually gives people even less of a reason to actually do progression content if they do manage to luck out. Look at the state we're in right now, a number of people are avoiding Mythic altogether because they know they can simply run M+ and Heroic Raids to get Mythic quality loot fairly easily.

Another issue with it is that it trivializes both Normal and Heroic raid progression. EN was probably the shining example of this. It was such a joke because of how geared everyone was from M+ and WQ gear. And that was a glimpse of raiding without tier sets, which is what we'll be seeing in BfA. And that's on the topic of current content at the time, let's not even look at how bad power creep is for previous raids in this expansion.

The other part is because of what you said, if someone could just luck out and get the gear, it does devalue it quite a bit. The default for people to assume is, "There's no way a noob running Heroic dungeons is ever going to be as geared as a Mythic Raider", which is likely true. However, that's an extreme. That Heroic Dungeon runner could very easily outgear someone working on Normal Progression, which for some particularly new inexperienced players, is an aspect of progression they'd otherwise could be proud of. Everyone starts somewhere, just now, it seems to randomly be between LFR and Mythic progression depending on your luck.

Compound all that you said with the fact that Blizzard no longer removes titles and mounts from Mythic raids, people just as you say don't think its worth the effort to do higher difficulties because they will be getting TF gear in Heroic, and they can just farm mythic in an expansion later to get the mount that they didn't get because Blizzard didn't remove it.

If blizzard capped TF gear by difficulty and actually made Mythic rewards exclusive to the expansion the content was relevant in, you would absolutely see a higher participation rate and interest in higher difficulties, especially Mythic.