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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I mean, BM is better suited than MM for sustain, as BM does have ~50-60K passive HPS from spirit bond (and prydaz is one of the best legendaries), so that's not a bad thing for BM. The only classes with better self sustain are warlocks and shadow priests (who are obvious FOTM picks anyway).

    As for the CC, I just watched Memento's kill but it didn't seem that bad. 1x blood DK and 2x normal grips them all together, and then you just kite them behind the boss in a blizzard, no more CC needed. For singletarget, BM can both wyvern sting and trap (I don't think Sleep is on the same DR as most other cc, so wyvern sting should be really strong) while handling the intermission, and as just said, afterwards, you shouldn't need much AOE CC if you do it the way Memento did.
    Fair, makes sense. Was just going off some of the other kills, who stacked aoe cc specs.

    But for note, MM likes Prydaz too, it can actually be your 2nd bis legendary, huntsmaster + boots/prydaz/insignia, last 3 can all be bis.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    Fair, makes sense. Was just going off some of the other kills, who stacked aoe cc specs.

    But for note, MM likes Prydaz too, it can actually be your 2nd bis legendary, huntsmaster + boots/prydaz/insignia, last 3 can all be bis.
    Oh yea, I guess MM can't actually wear the gloves now, so for any single target where you have to switch often, I guess prydaz would take the place of the gloves? I generally use BM for single target (due to mobility + frequent on demand singletarget burst), and MM for AOE, so never really considered that I have a good 2pc for singletarget now for MM (funny enough, T19 2pc is still super strong for MM on AOE due to more frequent trueshots).

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Oh yea, I guess MM can't actually wear the gloves now, so for any single target where you have to switch often, I guess prydaz would take the place of the gloves? I generally use BM for single target (due to mobility + frequent on demand singletarget burst), and MM for AOE, so never really considered that I have a good 2pc for singletarget now for MM (funny enough, T19 2pc is still super strong for MM on AOE due to more frequent trueshots).
    MM on ST is very strong too though, I get some fights mobility wise, but that doesn't apply too heavily for Antorus.

    And the ST add burst lines up nicely with MM burst, like Kin'garoth adds and the Mini-bosses on Portal keeper, MM does amazingly on those (Ye so does bm, but MM does a little better) and mobility isn't a thing on those bosses.

    BM is def strong for some fights, but idk, better than MM? Maybe just on Aggramar, because of the constantly sephuz uptime+mobility+better sustain.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    Sorry BM guys but you can't be the most mobile spec in the game (only ranged spec where movement does not alter damage at all), be the easiest spec in the game to play AND do top damage. That's just not how it works. It'd be bullshit to MM to play something far harder and less mobile and do less damage. Unless they rework BM it should always be sub optimal cus its the easy to play mobile choice.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    BM needs weapon scaling on skills instead of AP scalings, problem solved.
    Yes but we needed that since WOTLK so i will not hold me breath.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post

    I was 5th on our Imonar kill and 2nd on our Kin'garoth kill. Hardly calls for buffs, just git gud.
    dont make excuses about logs. They are what they are. Also, being "gud" in your sandbox doesn't mean the population is. The only think you have pointed out (without even highlighting it) is BM is really gear depended...but still the best bm hunters fall very behind to the best of (insert almost every other class/spec)

    BM is far from fine. currently, the premium we pay on mobility is to high. We need a 1-3% buff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post

    No, but seriously, BM is totally fine.
    Again BM is not fine, the premium we pay for mobility has increased. We need a 1-3% buff at the moment and it looks like it is increasing. As the community increases in gear this gap will increase.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Also, not really a contradiction, is it? BM is perfectly fine at the level it's currently tuned. It just requires you to have items that are stupidly hard to get, but that's not an issue with the spec, that's an issue with the tuning of tier bonuses.
    That is the issue with the spec. Further we go through a xpac, BM needs better and better tier bonuses to compensate for its lack of scaling.

    Since WOTLK BM has always sucked the last tier of a xpac...its strong out the door but fails miserably by the end of the xpac. Before it was tolerable, all specs were similar, there was no AP mechanics, no weapon for each spec etc etc.

    It is a sign there are issues when you have to use particular gear set ups as a crutch to be sub-par with the rest of the raid.

    We have been told BM needs to pay a premium for mobility. This premium has increased since TOS and it looks like it will increase further.

  6. #26
    I'd be happy if they killed off the need to wear previous tier pieces, and reliance on 1 trinket.

    But, I'm focusing on MM now anyway.

  7. #27
    And finally, in general I think hunters all specs need a buff at the moment. Not a huge buff but a buff. MM by 1-2% BM by 1-3% (+the buff to MM) and surv...well surv needs a a M%^&*(%^*( F^(^(^ Gun.

  8. #28
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    Unnerf Thunderslash, BM ST and AoE is fixed (for now) and it's a quick fix. Problem solved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But I'm currently transitioning to MM, unfortunately. I prefer BM because it's like play a ranged melee, but I''m stuck at this ~1.68mil DPS with BM due to T19 and only ~930 tier 20 pieces. Dumb how powerful T19 was, and how not powerful T21 is. Last tier typically always had really good set bonuses.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuudoo View Post
    Looking at all the parses from 99 down to 40 percentile, BM is dead last in all of them. What can be done, quickly, to help us out? I would like to see them buff Mantle again and just give us a flat damoooooge boost. I think BM is in the worst shape it has been all expansion.
    What for? To make another class the dead last so they can make a thread like this and keep the cycle rolling?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    What for? To make another class the dead last so they can make a thread like this and keep the cycle rolling?
    no its the the marginal difference between the classes. As i said we need a 1-3% buff , this will not change the position on the graph but will make us more in step.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    no its the the marginal difference between the classes. As i said we need a 1-3% buff , this will not change the position on the graph but will make us more in step.
    People will still complain and you know it. That's all this community is good for, crying.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Clobbernator View Post
    Sorry BM guys but you can't be the most mobile spec in the game (only ranged spec where movement does not alter damage at all), be the easiest spec in the game to play AND do top damage. That's just not how it works. It'd be bullshit to MM to play something far harder and less mobile and do less damage. Unless they rework BM it should always be sub optimal cus its the easy to play mobile choice.
    Yeah that argument is invalid. If you want to use that argument then we should also nerf the DPS of hybrid classes (e.g. shadow priests, boomkins, pallies, monks, etc) because why should they be able to be top DPS when they can also bring any spec. /s

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    fuck charts and meters and stuff, I wanna have fun. BM is fun. What's wrong with that?
    Except BM isn't fun? I mean I'm sure someone might find it fun, but you press 1 button while the other two just CD flash.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Archer View Post
    Correct, except for Aggramar, Hunter is really bad there. But it's okay to have a fight we're bad at. That's normal.
    BM Hunter also doesn't do well on the cleave fights though... A start would be giving a slightly bigger range to volley and dire beast aoe but.

    So you'd think BM should do well on single target patchwork fights such as Varimathras instead... but no it does not do well there either because the thing that allows BM to keep up to some extent is it's mobility so when there is little requirement for mobility then other classes pull ahead there too. I'm not actually sure what BM's niche is meant to be.

  15. #35
    BM is 1 of the best classes for Aggramar in terms of DPS. They have mobility to avoid all the random shit, on top of being able to proc sephuz on CD with Frost trap(even on Mythic). Sephuz on CD is no joke DPS-wise, it's insane.

    Time will tell what strat my guild will use, but most likely something similar to Limit did(blood DKs gripping adds together, druids slowing/knocking back them etc.), which leaves room for hunters to freezing trap on CD as it does not interfere with other CC DR that you would use.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    BM needs weapon scaling on skills instead of AP scalings, problem solved.
    This. Would require some other adjustments though, but yeh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    BM is fine, there are just a lot of BM players that are bad or have the wrong gear, like no T19 that are making things look worse.

    But almost every top hunter is already wearing T21 2pc instead right now. And to add to that, T20 4pc is going to see a lot of use still, so people that don't have high iLvl T20, they are going to suffer.

    Heroic Logs are also stupid misleading as usual and it simply boils down to 2 things; It's heroic and people are going to pad and Hunters in general are very bad at sniping damage on fast dying adds(BM more-so), which only makes the logs look worse than they are.

    I was 5th on our Imonar kill and 2nd on our Kin'garoth kill. Hardly calls for buffs, just git gud.
    Dude, you can't expect everyone to have stupidely high ilvl for T19...it's 2 raid tiers outdated... :/ I can't wait until BS like that goes extinct next expack...

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Dude, you can't expect everyone to have stupidely high ilvl for T19...it's 2 raid tiers outdated... :/ I can't wait until BS like that goes extinct next expack...
    Looks like you read only the first line. T21 2pc is better than T19 unless you actually have like 940 T19 pieces. The raw stats(on top of gloves/legs having amazing stats) gains vastly outperform T19. Once I dropped T19 for T21 and shifted more of my secondaries into Mastery, I saw a 60k-ish DPS increase on ST.

  18. #38
    No you guys are mobility gods, thats your niche
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Anyway stop being such an ass fucktard.
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivium666 View Post
    Would you kindly go fuck yourself?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinexve View Post
    No you guys are mobility gods, thats your niche
    Well that's a shitty niche.

    You know how Locks and Shadows are complete gods in 2-3 target fights? Like, how they're like 10-15% ahead of everyone in such fights? Or how Moonkins and Ele Shamans rape everyone in AoE scenarios? That's a niche. These classes aren't bad outside of their niche, but they completely explode in fights that suit there niche.

    And then there's BM. BM is always shit. Even in BM niche fights BM is shit, because BM is somehow only average on high movement fights. Fallen Avatar was a monstrous movement fight, and even there BM barely managed to perform better than MM early on (later on MM completely outclassed BM). The current tier doesn't even have anything you could consider a high movement fight - but even if it did, BM would still not be better than most other specs.

    So yea, mobility gods my ass. For most encounters extra mobility is worth jackshit. And on encounters where extra mobility is a neat thing you're still gonna be middle of the pack at best. Let's not even talk about BMs abysmally low AoE potential. BM is shit in every aspect.
    Last edited by Gasparde; 2017-12-12 at 09:41 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinexve View Post
    No you guys are mobility gods, thats your niche
    If it's such a high advantage, then why is BM not top (or near top) dps on fights that have extremely high mobility requirements?
    So where exactly is this advantage suppose to make BM shine? For players that struggle to avoid fire in normal raids? They don't care about dps in the first place.

    This argument keeps coming up, but it falls flat on it's face when you look at actual facts. BM might outdo MM on a couple of fights and then goes from bottom tier to average tier because of this GODLIKE mobility advantage. Hu-friggin-ray....
    Other classes generally have enough tools to compensate for their weakness to mobility.

    And don't forget we're currently early on in the new raid, at this point most players still have to get a feel for the fights. In a few weeks when people instinctively know the timers and when reacting to stuff becomes almost muscle memory; BM will drop even further behind as the mobility advantage gets smaller still.
    Last edited by Nythiz; 2017-12-12 at 09:52 PM.

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