Mythic + and why you shouldn't expect to get invited with low score

[Deleted]

It's interesting that people think they're being shunned because their score is low, when in reality it's all a big lottery. The prize you get for winning the lottery is completing the dungeon.

Your odds of getting a winning ticket increase depending on how high the score of the player you invite is. It isn't about people actively shunning people with low score. It's about playing the odds.

I'm sure if you put M+ score on the X axis of a bell curve you'll be pretty close to the actual amount of players in each of the M+ score brackets, the higher the score, the fewer people there are. Heck, you can do this with anything - people's height, weight, iq, skill at any sports, any game.

Being good at one thing doesn't necesarily mean you'll be good at another, but no matter how perfect or imperfect the M+ score system is, that's the best system puggers have at the moment.

Sure you can get someone bad with a high score and someone great with a low score, but on average your odds are better if you pick someone with a high score most of the time.

If your score is average or below average then whenever you queue up for a group you're being chosen out of a bunch of other average people and some who've put visible quantifiable effort in their character using the best system currently available to players, so if 20 players queue up being average scored your chances of getting picked would be 1/20 if all scores are equal and much lower if there 2 or 3 people actually put visible effort into their character.

If you can make a better systems using the data that's available in the game then all the power to you - do it and if it's actually better it will quickly overtake or get adopted by other metric sites.

If you can't come up with something better and don't want to use the system then don't - make your own groups or join a guild and get friendly with other people who run dungeons, be good at what you do and you'll be guaranteed to be picked above others in no time. I find it hard to believe people who keep claiming they're from 15/11 mythic guilds yet none of the other people in that guild run dungeons.

The people don't even have to be in your guild anymore - battle.net groups is now a thing. Make one and invite people who you liked playing with and you'll have a solid group in no time.

If you're on a small server you can just easily abuse the system "Low pop server, easy M+ score, looking for carry". BOOM! you're swiftly climbing up the score ladder.

Unfortunately, threads like these to me sound more like "I want to be the special exception among tens of thousands of people who put similar effort in the same thing that I want to do". What about the other people if you're suddenly the exception? You get picked over them when the system shows you all as equal and they get declined always? Does that sound fair?

If you keep being average in the system that you keep shunning yet still participate in, then don't complain when people don't want to gamble on you when there are better odds to be had.

Let me upvote this!

[HuxNeva]

Except it doesn't show the highest completed ever. According to raider.io and wowprogress my highest ever is like a 12. Even tho i have the achievement for 15 and we clear 15-17 chests every single week. Well within the timer and we often 2 chests 17 keys in our farming days. But according to raider.io. I have done a 12 and a 8 key. or something like that.

So basically when you see that his top is a 11 mos. Then that is wrong and he has probably the same or even better clear timers than you. But you know. You only want the top 100 i guess

All true, but how can I tell? What is your suggestion?

[glowpipe]

All true, but how can I tell? What is your suggestion?

I don't really have any solutions. But mythic + score in its current form is not it.

[Kaver]

I love how I have a hard time raising my M+ Score. It's almost exactly like my Credit Score. Guess I'll just miss out on the finer things in life. Like High End M+ Pugs and Debt.

Joking aside. I just wish people would stop leaving my keys after 1 wipe. I wish those people would get a 3 day restriction on joining M+ or something. It's punishing to the person with the key, not the person leaving.

Do yourself a BIG favor and join a guild that run mythic+. You will thank yourself for doing it. Once you have made some runs with a good guild you will never go back to "pugging" mythic+ dungeons again.

- - - Updated - - -

Except that your "score" doesn't indicate how good you as a player are, because you could have gotten a high score from being carried repeatedly, or a low score from not doing enough runs or simply not getting the best groups. If I as a tank take what I can get for M+ groups because I only occasionally bother with them and thus, have no score to flaunt and the dps in my group bail mid run, afk through the run, or just flat out screw things up for everyone, does that mean I'm not good enough to try again with a more competent group? I'm sure the answer many of you will give is that I should just learn to play and somehow compensate for the mistakes of others, and to an extent that is feasible. However there are 5 people in every M+ group and it only takes one to screw it up for everyone whereas it takes 5 good players to increase each other's score. That is why the idea of using score to determine whether or not someone doesn't "suck" is just as flawed as the past 8 years of using gearscores and achievements.

You're completely right. But if I could choose between a 2200 player and a 1200 player, the chance of getting a bad player would be highest by choosing the 1200 player.

The 2200 player could be the worst player ever but he will most likely be pretty good. Sometimes you're unlucky, but you can reduce the risk of failure by picking the 2200 over the 1200.

[ID811717]

Do yourself a BIG favor and join a guild that run mythic+. You will thank yourself for doing it. Once you have made some runs with a good guild you will never go back to "pugging" mythic+ dungeons again.

True. Except if your goal is to push M+ keys as high as possible.
In which case you will have to abandon your guild (where people normally won't be arsed to go much higher than the weekly chest), start pugging to meet other good people, and eventually form a dedicated M+ group based on the people you met.

[Kaver]

True. Except if your goal is to push M+ keys as high as possible.
In which case you will have to abandon your guild (where people normally won't be arsed to go much higher than the weekly chest), start pugging to meet other good people, and eventually form a dedicated M+ group based on the people you met.

Depends on the guild mate. The only thing I can say is to join a guild with nice ambitious people. They will push the key, and it will be a joy

[Tikishock]

I don't have an issue with a "mythic+ score". I have an issue that the score is only based on WoWs leaderboard which only shows the top 100. That doesn't really work on a high pop server.

[ID811717]

Depends on the guild mate. The only thing I can say is to join a guild with nice ambitious people. They will push the key, and it will be a joy

In my experience, it is pretty hard to find a guild for M+ as an outsider. I have been looking at a number of guilds recently. I have been using 2.5k wowprogress rating as an indicator that someone is reasonably interested and active in M+.
- Most mythic raiding guilds seem to have only 1-2 people above 2.5k. Not much of a M+ community there. Most raiders just want to get the weekly-annoyance-chest done, and that's a fair point of view.
- Some mythic raiding guilds have multiple (3 to 5) people above 2.5k, in which case they normally have an M+ team that has all roles filled up. Joining a guild in an attempt to befriend a clique of 3-5 people and get into their team just feels weird.
- I did not check guilds that do not raid mythic, may be I missed some good options there.

Right now, it seems that a large fraction of keys between +20 and +22 are done in pugs.
As far as guilds go, I think that one can build a good M+ community inside a guild, but first one needs to join the guild for mythic raiding and establish oneself as a core player.

[Artemol]

I see very few groups actually checking M+ score tbh. If I'm slumming it in pugs I don't actually apply to those groups though because the leader has a higher than average chance of being a toxic shit that will whine and cry and have a huge hissy if even the slightest thing doesn't go his way.

I just whisper people, if they don't reply back they are not good players

[Kaver]

In my experience, it is pretty hard to find a guild for M+ as an outsider. I have been looking at a number of guilds recently. I have been using 2.5k wowprogress rating as an indicator that someone is reasonably interested and active in M+.
- Most mythic raiding guilds seem to have only 1-2 people above 2.5k. Not much of a M+ community there. Most raiders just want to get the weekly-annoyance-chest done, and that's a fair point of view.
- Some mythic raiding guilds have multiple (3 to 5) people above 2.5k, in which case they normally have an M+ team that has all roles filled up. Joining a guild in an attempt to befriend a clique of 3-5 people and get into their team just feels weird.
- I did not check guilds that do not raid mythic, may be I missed some good options there.

Right now, it seems that a large fraction of keys between +20 and +22 are done in pugs.
As far as guilds go, I think that one can build a good M+ community inside a guild, but first one needs to join the guild for mythic raiding and establish oneself as a core player.

Yea, I guess you're right when we're talking about hardcore mythic+ groups.

But I think that the guy I commented on in the beginning was just interested in getting the weekly +15. So my advice to him would be to join a guild.

+Bonus: He probably wont need to pug raids anymore either.

[Leetbeartank]

Yeah because Method and Exorsus farm their asses off in M+ right now. Please, most people do +15 for weekly and never go back, you can't get a arcano crystal in any m+ and aside from some veeeeery few trinkets (that ironically are from Violet Hold and can only drop from the cache) nothing is worthwhile in there.

Example for how stupid your statement, the #1 team in the world has a rogue (3100 something score) that has a SINGLE item from M+.

Wait, how many people are in guilds that do 7 split runs to get gear? Confirmed casual trying to justify the fact that he can't complete a mere +15.

[PewPewArrowz]

Wait, how many people are in guilds that do 7 split runs to get gear? Confirmed casual trying to justify the fact that he can't complete a mere +15.

The example I gave you is not a guild that does splits, moreover every person that clears heroic on a weekly basis has close to 0 incentive to spam M+. Reason for that is set bonuses for most classes are just too powerful to care for some random shitty chest piece that drops in X M+ dungeon, combine that with boots/rings/belts or whatever slots for Legendaries. The fact that you don't know this as a fact is enough to tell me of your "real raider" status. At this point M+ is just about inflating your E-peen with "m+ score"

Only reason people spammed M+ was for Legendary fishing and AP grind, however both are now obsolete as most "real raiders" as you call them have their leggos for a long time now, and AP grind has been completely destroyed. Again, sorry If i offended you Mr. Real Raider.

[Battlebeard]

Hello people on MMO, I have been reading a lot about this lately, and thought i'd give my input.
As a player who run a lot with guild i have obtained a high enough mythic score, that i get accepted into most pugs that want to farm 15-18 keys. I see a lot of complaining about "why are people not taking me into their groups?? I know i am good enough even though i only have 1,3k m+ score and 5 failed +15's on my wowprogress"
If you look from the point of view, from a player that has high mythic+ score, who has been farming a lot to get his mythic+ score up, why should he pick you?

1st of all there is a million dps in queue to pick between, so if you are playing dps without high m+ score you must face that you're never going to get picked for high keys
2nd Why is it you think you are entitled to a spot in a group with people, far superior to you in terms of experience and the amount of work they have put into mythic+? Would you expect to get into master tier games in league, when you are only at silver MMR?
my 3rd and last point, gear is so easily available now, heroic + normal Antorus is a joke, so looking at your 950 ilvl doesn't say much about what we can expect from you. I just now pugged a EoA +15 and it was so painful to get through, even with everyone at 945+, we had a DK who died on every boss because he failed mechanics, tank was squishy as fuck, died multiple times on small thrash pulls, and the warrior was awfull as well.
We barely killed last boss and I think we 1 chested it. With a group of players with high mythic+ score, we will usually 3 chest a key like this.
So yes, in my opinion we do need some way to measure mythic + skill.

I suggest if you got low score, but think you are good at the game, go find a guild or some friends with your own key, and work your skill + experience up this way, that’s how most of us have done it.
I don't expect to get into groups with 2,6k players when I’m only at 2,3k.
Instead I will go play with players who also has around 2,3k and work my way up.
I apologize for bad gramma, but English is not my first language

We get it, you are good... you are the best... you are unbeatable... you might be God...

But to me, you are just an elitist who think he is better than the rest and who just make braggy arguments that are all BS.

[Bryntrollian]

Whats a mythic+ score lawl, I stopped doing mythic+ a long time ago when I had all the legendaries I wanted and with 2 tier sets, 2 legendaries and access to mythic raid gear the cache was 99% vendor trash anyway.

Now with AP being irrelevant and most people having their legendaries already.... the cache is good for the legendary upgrades(which you can get from a +1 key weekly) or pushing 15's for some random high ilvl garbage you can't wear because of 2 tiers, 2 legendaries and OP as fuck trinkets you're wearing since 7.2


Mythic+ is a joke and people who advertise groups with "checking wowprogress" are as sad as the pug raids looking for curve achievements after 1 week.

Lol at week 1 normal groups asking for curve achievement

[Ange]

Most groups I see only ask for a 2k "blue" raider.io rating for 15-18, even in tyrannical weeks. Thats only fair and in my own experience pretty much needed for some of the dungeons to even finish it.

In many cases getting very high rated players for a weekly 15 can be just as frustrating as with no-rated players, since high violett (2700+) or orange (3100+) players often only seek a better +3 time and if they can't get it, they just leave a +2 or +1.

I would allways choose a solid 2k +15 farmer above higher ranked players, because they can do any +15, with all/most affixes and don't leave if anything but a +3 happens.

[Critical92]

Just wait for really easy affixes push every dungeon to 17-20, have a really high score and fail the following a little harder affixes like a retard.
I have seen 2.2k+ people fail at volcanic every damn time. I have seen 2k+ score tanks failing at +15 mos first boss.

M+ score in its current form is just garbage like gearscore in the past.

[Deleted]

I don't really have any solutions. But mythic + score in its current form is not it.

Perhaps it isn't, but odds are that if you invite someone with atleast 2k score over someone who has 1000-1500 with bunch of gray runs across the board, the guy with the higher score will be better. People bitch about the "zomg people asking for curve on first/second week!?!?!", but fail to see that the runs asking for curve clearly aren't aimed at people who don't have it yet. There are several bosses that are absolute nightmare to pug, and making a group with people who have cleared & progressed (as easy as the raid is, there is still SOME progressing) the content with their guilds or different pug groups already.


With that being said, FFXIV has pretty solid solution to the issue. When you have people who haven't cleared some content before in your group, the rest of the group gets some bonus currency or whatever for finishing the dungeon with him. Now imagine the raid getting +X AP, gold, argunite or whatever when they explain tactics to some ret that is new to the raid, instead of kicking him at kin'garoth because he popped wings at pull and did trash add damage from then on because his wings were out of sync for all the adds because he didn't know about saving his CDs.


Basically, unless there is something to motivate people to bring & teach new people with them, why would they invite some non-curved people to their HC raids or low m+ people for their keys? Even in IRL bunch of emplyers recieve bonuses for hiring young, disabled, inexperienced, etc. emplyees. It makes hiring some fresh-graduated teen worth it over hiring someone more experienced, who likely doesn't require as many time with things being explained to him. Also just like with raids, people running m+ are 100% allowed to make their own groups if the "crazy" requirements are too high for them.

[ItsTiddles]

People bitch about the "zomg people asking for curve on first/second week!?!?!", but fail to see that the runs asking for curve clearly aren't aimed at people who don't have it yet.

Quoting this just to make sure people read it again. As I've said about m+ requirements in other threads, people usually prefer to play with like-minded people. Plenty of groups without high score requirements or AOTC requirements, join those groups.

[ID811717]

The example I gave you is not a guild that does splits, moreover every person that clears heroic on a weekly basis has close to 0 incentive to spam M+. Reason for that is set bonuses for most classes are just too powerful to care for some random shitty chest piece that drops in X M+ dungeon, combine that with boots/rings/belts or whatever slots for Legendaries. The fact that you don't know this as a fact is enough to tell me of your "real raider" status. At this point M+ is just about inflating your E-peen with "m+ score"

This is completely false for heroic raiders. Sure, may be this is true for your class and spec... But you can't generalize it.

I cleared ToS HC every week and (besides the first couple of weeks) the only loot I ever needed was tier set pieces and trinkets. Literally for every other slot - whenever something dropped for us, I already had a better titanforged piece from M+. Even for the trinket slots: I got very high titanforged trinket in M+ at the start of the season, and used it until Argus was released with relinquished trinket purchases.

It is basically the same with Antorus. Yes, I am farming it for tier pieces and trinkets. But I'm totally not excited about the rest of the drops. My bag ilvl prior to Antorus release was 950, my equipped ilvl was 945. I am sure that within a month, I will get ilvl 960+ gear in most non-tier slots just from M+. Farming Antorus HC for non-tier/non-trinket loot is simply not useful.

My motivation for spamming M+ is not gear, but the result is all the same. As long as I keep pushing high keys, my gear is pretty close to what I would get by raiding mythic. That is true even while min-max-ing the stats. Granted, I play a class/spec that makes it easy. But I'm pretty sure that's intentional design by Blizzard to make gear progression for doing high M+ possible outside of mythic raiding. That's what titanforging is for, in the first place. It enables everyone to push M+ keys as high as their skill caps allow it, not locking it as an exclusive content for good geared mythic raiders.

[Zigrifid]

Boosting m+15 cost about 100k, which means someone with millions of gold can buy a boost each week and at some point have high score,i guess in the sad child's eyes that says "LFM m+15 2k+ score checking wowprogress" someone who buys a boost and stands at the entrance is better than someone who has low score but plays his class.