What's up with recycling boss mechanics/visuals?

[chubbybunny]

You come up with a totally unique mechanics for over 200 bosses.. There's only so many different ones you can use before you'll repeat them...

[Taeldorian]

Well the group wipe IS actually identical to the one in LK. Raid gets pulled into the air, choked, and then fall down dead. The mechanics after are completely different, though I guess you could say the dead realm is similar to being drawn into Frostmourne.

In any case, Aggramar and Argus both have very nice and unique visuals (for WoW, both bosses feel like they've been ripped straight out of FF XIV), so it's not fair to say everything is re-used. Given that Antorus is where all demons are made and commanded from, it makes sense that the mechanics the demon bosses have would be similar to ones we've seen demons use before.

It’s not similar at all aside from just dying. Doesn’t sound like you’ve done the fight but dying is an actual mechanic of the fight. With the LK dying was completely RP.

That’s the difference. LK killing us was RP but Argus killing us is actually a mechanic because it’s a huge part right after we die. Dying to collect orbs and micromanage the buff is completely different from the LK encounter, we did nothing like that. We died, went through some RP and got rezzed. With argus we died, got rezzed but need to manage dying as a mechanic since you need to die in order to collect orbs for the buff. LK had nothing like that, dying wasn’t a mechanic.

Two very different things.

[Swizzle]

It’s not similar at all aside from just dying. Doesn’t sound like you’ve done the fight but dying is an actual mechanic of the fight. With the LK dying was completely RP.

That’s the difference. LK killing us was RP but Argus killing us is actually a mechanic because it’s a huge part right after we die. Dying to collect orbs and micromanage the buff is completely different from the LK encounter, we did nothing like that. We died, went through some RP and got rezzed. With argus we died, got rezzed but need to manage dying as a mechanic since you need to die in order to collect orbs for the buff. LK had nothing like that, dying wasn’t a mechanic.

Two very different things.

Killed Argus four (4) times already and have had Bane of the Fallen King and Light of Dawn for years now, so I do know what I'm talking about. If you read what I wrote, I literally said the way you die is identical. Both bosses pull the raid into the air, suffocate everyone, then do an insta-kill that sends everyone to the floor dead. The very next words I wrote were "the mechanics after are completely different". I do appreciate you playing today, though, but I don't have any consolation prizes to hand out. Sorry.

[Taeldorian]

Killed Argus four (4) times already and have had Bane of the Fallen King and Light of Dawn for years now, so I do know what I'm talking about. If you read what I wrote, I literally said the way you die is identical. Both bosses pull the raid into the air, suffocate everyone, then do an insta-kill that sends everyone to the floor dead. The very next words I wrote were "the mechanics after are completely different". I do appreciate you playing today, though, but I don't have any consolation prizes to hand out. Sorry.

And right after that you again attempted to draw similarities between the mechanics after we die with argus and getting pulled into frostmourne. Dead realm similar to being drawn into frostmourne? Okay. I guess you’re getting all defensive for a reason, makes sense.

[Darktbs]

Visuals is mostly because of time.Using same textures, models or animations cuts times for what they need and allow them to do more mechanics, instead of creating a new animations for every spell.

An example is the new texture for ground attacks.You have fel, holy, shadow, water, fire variations of that thing in EVERY dungeon.

[The One Percent]

I'm sure they would love to have you on their dev team if you have any new, refreshing ideas.

[Swizzle]

And right after that you again attempted to draw similarities between the mechanics after we die with argus and getting pulled into frostmourne. Dead realm similar to being drawn into frostmourne? Okay. I guess you’re getting all defensive for a reason, makes sense.

I didn't say they were similar buddo, I said that I guess one could compare the mechanics, not that I did. I try to understand different view points, not make claims. Yes we die on Argus and collect Titanforge orbs as long as the Tree lets us rez. That is very different from going into Frostmourne and dealing with the adds in there since the players in there don't die. I can see how someone could make a stretch and draw similarities, not saying that they exist.

But again, keep the pretention rolling, it's always nice on a hump day.

[Taeldorian]

I didn't say they were similar buddo, I said that I guess one could compare the mechanics, not that I did. I try to understand different view points, not make claims. Yes we die on Argus and collect Titanforge orbs as long as the Tree lets us rez. That is very different from going into Frostmourne and dealing with the adds in there since the players in there don't die. I can see how someone could make a stretch and draw similarities, not saying that they exist.

But again, keep the pretention rolling, it's always nice on a hump day.

No idea why you’re getting so defensive over a conversation. You alright there bud?

You can make a stretch about everything and anything if you wanted to. Whether it actually makes sense or not is the important part and that would be the part that’s missing from the LK death mechanic and Argus death mechanic comparison. Sure, we die, so they share similarities but mechanically both are very different.

I’m not sure why you quoted me if you agreed with what I was saying in the first place. Responded just to tell me that someone could make a stretch and claim the fights are similar? Obviously. You can do that with anything.

[cuafpr]

the only unique boss mechnic in WoW is from vanilla, and that was nef's class calls. I've actually asked them why it hasn't been re-used and basically it was seen as unfun, and to RNG. I wish they would re-use it though.

as for the samples so what? the different textures work, and the pillars are still Fel/Legion pillars so not shocked they are the same.

[Yorimar]

You seriously can’t tell the difference between that and the Argus death mechanic? Have you done the fight?

You can have people stay dead to collect orbs in the dead realm in order to grant the raid a buff. You can have tanks swap doing that or you can designate someone to it. Lich king was nothing like that, he killed us and we were revived but with Argus dying is a huge part of the last phase.

So no, it’s not a Lich king copy at all.

did you read my whole comment? or just the part where i said its an LK copy? let me copy/paste the rest: "the only difference is that we cant fight him when we release spirit. we get ressurrected instead by Terenas." point being LK and Argus both kill the raid

[Taeldorian]

did you read my whole comment? or just the part where i said its an LK copy? let me copy/paste the rest: "the only difference is that we cant fight him when we release spirit. we get ressurrected instead by Terenas." point being LK and Argus both kill the raid

That’s not the only difference between the two though. That’s what I’m pointing out.

[Propainn]

Man there's like 200 bosses in WoW, nobody can come up with a different theme / mechanic overlay for each.

I think there have been 310 since T1 (aka not counting UBRS, etc), in case you were wondering the actual #. I was curious the other day and added them up.

[Ellerain]

The evolution of WoW design is eerily similar to the evolution of MtG design (but lags behind a couple years). WoW is basically discovering what MtG calls "New World Order" which dictates that complexity of the common elements should be removed and pushed to uncommon elements and the interaction between elements. The benefits of NWO-like design seem to include much higher quality floor and higher design throughput -- basically getting new content of predictable quality out faster. The main reason to adopt an NWO-like design is to increase influx of the new players to the game (at the possible expense of older playerbase).

The reason behind quest mobs having more unique designed ability is likely due to the quest team not being on board with this WoW-NWO yet. Basically: expect more of this, you'll get used to it.

Edit: if you want to know more, read this article by the MtG lead designer: https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...der-2011-12-02 . It does not require any knowledge of MtG.

[Deleted]

After 13 years of raids I'm impressed they still manage to surprise me with new mechanics more than anything. WoW's engine is quite limited in what they can do and there really are only so many ways you can avoid something dangerous. Don't like it, give them constructive suggestions of things they haven't tried.

[Deleted]

Well Legion raids sucked pretty badly, I am frankly surprised why did people only realised now.

[Ellerain]

Well Legion raids sucked pretty badly, I am frankly surprised why did people only realised now.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man