[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Deleted]

Top middle of the pack although a great deal of the parses come from pugs where random deaths keep happening + our strong t20 sets are equipped. as a player I find the encounters ok for rets (although i do miss magic damage reduction and execute a lot).
What amazes me is although we had a terribad tier before the number of ret parses isagain one of the highest.

[killwithpwr]

My own feelings on Antorus as a ret:
Garothi feels the same as Goroth.
Hounds for some reason we are really good, even though we cant cleave like ranged can.
High Command is loads of fun and good for us, competeing with Boomies.
Portal Keeper - mixed feelings, cuz i know the fight is great for us, but i was on Portal duty... Which is utter crap.
Immonar feels about the same as Maiden just without the balls. Kinda fun and kinda great.
Kin'garoth is the fight i love most. Figuring out when is best to pop wings and then pony to the extra damagable add felt very satisfactory to me.
Varimathras is boring. Just boring. Due to my raids time of kill, my damage was awfull (4.14mins, which is around the time i reached 15 stacks with 3rd crusade)
If you get the benefit of 3 crusades, Ret is nice on the fight.
Coven is very fun, with all the movement and me helping out the tank of the Frost boss, i felt helpfull. Damage is kinda fine, but feels like im traveling so much on that fight, then again, usually the bosses become un-damagable during my down time on wings, i allways thank my tanks for their switching tactics...
Aggramar is great Fun. Even though we cant repentance adds, Hand of Hindrance has finally found its way into PvE... I have saved my raid twice by quickly HoHing a stray add that has gotten by un-noticed by our Warlocks.
And the intermissions also come at down times... Usually.
Argus is another great Ret fight. Not only because of last phase. On first phase, i usually got the benefit of 5 stacks of Sky buff, and usually right when p2 starts and my Wings are ready. Also, usually some miscreant dies to some shit... So thats allways a benefit. On p2 i didnt get any bombs, which im sure made me enjoy the fight way more than i should have. On p3 i felt awsome for soloing the holy debuffed add, and i managed to interrupt the beacon in the mili-second he became interruptible again which also felt awsome to me. P4 is boring, but running around avoiding shit on the ground, getting buffed by death procs and getting the benefit of wings+retribution+old wars felt like i was a titan my self...

I hate the Retribution passive, but, having it and doing Argus is loads of fun... (not on Normal... No one ever dies on normal...)

[Kuriyama]

How's the ret pally after a week in the new tier?

Damage is fine. Don't touch T21 until you get 4P. Even then, the rotation is complete garbage without 3HP BoW.
Also Tower Defense is the worst fight ever created, especially for Ret with zero mobility.

[Morally Grey Storm]

hero defence is utter shite
*nods*

[Demsi]

Eonar was very dissapointing indeed, i did it as holy, and all i did was standing in one place and heal.

[Tonyman64]

I enjoyed Eonar. It was a change of pace from other bosses. It's just super undertuned on normal right now.

[krille20]

Guys, how does your opener look like? I always go with Blade of justice, crusade, judgment, TV, wake of ashes, TV, Zeal, TV and then continue my normal building up and spending Holy Power. But the opening rotation on Icy-veins looks different and I've seen other paladins use the opening rotation on Icy-veins. I know difference in DPS probably isn't huge but still would like to know how other does it.

My legendaries are currently Soul of the highlord with Whisper of the Nathrezim.

[Reith]

Guys, how does your opener look like? I always go with Blade of justice, crusade, judgment, TV, wake of ashes, TV, Zeal, TV and then continue my normal building up and spending Holy Power. But the opening rotation on Icy-veins looks different and I've seen other paladins use the opening rotation on Icy-veins. I know difference in DPS probably isn't huge but still would like to know how other does it.

My legendaries are currently Soul of the highlord with Whisper of the Nathrezim.

With that legendary setup, I'd go Judge > BoJ > Crusade+TV > BoJ/WoA > TV > BoJ/WoA/Zeal > TV > Judge basically.

[Ryuji]

Welp, I got a 975 cloak out of the M+ cache today and did some simming to fiddle with it. It shows that Chain + Liadrin's is now my best lego combo for ST, though I highly enjoy using cloak and Highlord, bleh.

Any sort of cleave or AoE, it shows Highlord + Chain, figured it'd be cloak + Highlord still but it isn't. In addition, it's showing that my 920 Horn of Valor is now the bees knees for AoE instead of Glaives. Simming is...odd.

[Reith]

Welp, I got a 975 cloak out of the M+ cache today and did some simming to fiddle with it. It shows that Chain + Liadrin's is now my best lego combo for ST, though I highly enjoy using cloak and Highlord, bleh.

Any sort of cleave or AoE, it shows Highlord + Chain, figured it'd be cloak + Highlord still but it isn't. In addition, it's showing that my 920 Horn of Valor is now the bees knees for AoE instead of Glaives. Simming is...odd.

Using Chain puts higher value on Horn because you can reliably use it together with Crusade. That being said, sims can't accurately represent all situations unless you manually put them together yourself, so don't rely entirely on them and think about the particular encounters you'll be doing and adjust accordingly to what's important in the fight.

[Ryuji]

Using Chain puts higher value on Horn because you can reliably use it together with Crusade. That being said, sims can't accurately represent all situations unless you manually put them together yourself, so don't rely entirely on them and think about the particular encounters you'll be doing and adjust accordingly to what's important in the fight.

True. I did some fiddling around with it last night and it did pretty well, though I might stick with Highlord over Liadrin's just because.

[Lothaeryn]

so since ive been under a rock for some time, i need some help with the new tier. i have 4 set and i feel gimped beyond a reason.

Whats the valued Stat Priority for T21? are we now doing full mastery as much as possible with a haste softcap? or are we still mixing in crit/vers?

Ive been using Soul/Nathrezim for last tier, but im assuming its not the optimal setup at this point anymore (in my sims, Soul was outperforming Chain by a good margin at the time).

And are we taking Greater Judgements over zeal now? or is zeal still more optimal for ST even though Judgement would be valued with guaranteed crits more?

[Deleted]

so since ive been under a rock for some time, i need some help with the new tier. i have 4 set and i feel gimped beyond a reason.

Whats the valued Stat Priority for T21? are we now doing full mastery as much as possible with a haste softcap? or are we still mixing in crit/vers?

Ive been using Soul/Nathrezim for last tier, but im assuming its not the optimal setup at this point anymore (in my sims, Soul was outperforming Chain by a good margin at the time).

And are we taking Greater Judgements over zeal now? or is zeal still more optimal for ST even though Judgement would be valued with guaranteed crits more?

A mix of t20 and t21 give better results until u are able to get your hands to a really high ilvl gear ( for my set that would be more than 2025 ilvls difference meaning good hc wf or m antorus gear or a bit lower if for some reason u are stuck with baseline hctomb gear) . That being said u most probably gonna run belt and some ring until u get solid hc tier and offesets of 940 plus value (at least thats how things work for me with my current t20 pieces and no i do not intent to go in that place again and again to get tf m tomb tier). Anyways if u manage to get rid of t20 then the spot opens for the cloak as well and since what we are cryin about is the way everything is tied with crusade whole expansion the cloak and highlord combo gives the illusion of a more productive playstyle outside wings allthough i doubt it (hope someone could run a sim with belt and highlord vs cloak and highlord without wings and during wings to see what % difference we are talking about).
Mastery, versa and haste are solid this tier with crit following although not that far that would make it undesirable.
And among all that shit yes greater judge is simming higher for 4t21 and most of 2t21 and most scenarios specially in antorus. However minmaxing our dps like this is contrary to every encounter design as well since it is towards the end when shit hits the fan and y want to get done with a boss (or a trah pack in a m+) and greater judge holds small or no power in that scenario.
Thats my sims and my pov. Alas u will need to sim your gear like a madman to find the best combos.
That being said :a ret paly in a wf kill. End of times. Dalaran is flooding with doomsayers. The sky is falling. Major nerf incoming.
And even worse next q&a Ion will use it as an example. Wai gawd.

[Reith]

That being said :a ret paly in a wf kill. End of times. Dalaran is flooding with doomsayers. The sky is falling. Major nerf incoming.
And even worse next q&a Ion will use it as an example. Wai gawd.

Eh, if they read into that they're idiots. He's extremely geared, 79 AP, people are fully expecting to die in that fight (it's an entirely purposeful mechanic) and Ret's the only one with good holy damage on the holy vulnerable add.

[Ascius]

Eh, if they read into that they're idiots. He's extremely geared, 79 AP, people are fully expecting to die in that fight (it's an entirely purposeful mechanic) and Ret's the only one with good holy damage on the holy vulnerable add.

It seems like the fight was designed with a purpose to point a finger at it and say look ret was awesome in mythic race last tier and hey you also had Ashbringer, so...

...

No changes, enjoy

[Deleted]

Something minor.

Tier 20 2p and tier 21 4p bonuses share the same name " sacred judgment " therefore it is not possible to track both of them with TMW etc.
Anyone who has a clue how to counter this ?

[Krothare]

So uhh, you guys realize that before Tomb took a dump on Ret (and everyone not named Rouge and Warrior), Ret was brought to like every single World First kill right? I think it was also one of the few melee spec present for every early Gul'dan kill as well.

[Morally Grey Storm]

So uhh, you guys realize that before Tomb took a dump on Ret (and everyone not named Rouge and Warrior), Ret was brought to like every single World First kill right? I think it was also one of the few melee spec present for every early Gul'dan kill as well.

there is a Ret on WF Argus, try again Bragg.
Also, Arms t21 is beyond shit.

[Deleted]

So uhh, you guys realize that before Tomb took a dump on Ret (and everyone not named Rouge and Warrior), Ret was brought to like every single World First kill right? I think it was also one of the few melee spec present for every early Gul'dan kill as well.

y GL in finding bis 2t20 m wf/tf to compensate for the damage output. and gl in replicating a fight where u are bound to take 4 stacks of a buff that regardless of what is thrown to u is quite usefull, where there is an add taking increased holy damage where noone else can do well, where there is movement that does not require particular speed, and where u can compensate from your mid of the pack dps by the constant procc of ret passive (that serves both as an execute and as a rather strong defensive when shit hit the fan).
TBH if they dont decide to do something about it now so they nerf us i believe that this shit is going to continue existing net expansion.

[Krothare]

You do know that once every T21 piece is 945-960 then that plus Cloak/Soul over takes any 2p/4p combo w/ Belt/Soul right. And Ret is solid on like every fight in Antoruos, except for like Coven which shits on Melee in general.